Should disabled users upgraded to first class receive the full first class offering?

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by anamyd, 10 Feb 2019.

  1. anamyd

    anamyd Member

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    Mod Note: Posts #1 - #21 originally in this thread.

    How does the wheelchair space in First Class only work...?
     
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  3. oliverpckehoe

    oliverpckehoe Member

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    Wheelchair users get a free upgrade. At least, that's what GWR do on 2C48 (5/10 car IET)
     
  4. VT 390

    VT 390 Member

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    Does this mean that they will get everything that comes with first class as well, if so that does not seam right as just because they are in a wheelchair it should not mean that they get free first class all the time. I think it would be better to have 1 space in First class and 1 in standard class.
     
  5. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    I'm more concerned about carers travelling with them. Do they have to buy a First Class ticket?
     
  6. oliverpckehoe

    oliverpckehoe Member

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    I can imagine that they're *technically* not meant to get complimentary refreshments and stuff, but nice catering staff might allow it.

    In terms of carers, it would be pretty irresponsible making them pay/travel in standard, so I think TPE will allow that. However, people could exploit that since often one would just take their word for it.
     
  7. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    No they don't get the full 1st class offering. There is something but I can't remember what it is off hand.
     
  8. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The full offering is just tea, coffee, water and biccies anyway. It's not VT.
     
  9. Bungle965

    Bungle965 Established Member

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    I wonder if that'll improve at all when the new fleet comes in.
    Sam
     
  10. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I hope not, as that will only mean a higher price.
     
  11. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    Not on the new fleet as the catering will be overhauled. The kitchen isn't just there to look pretty.
     
  12. modernrail

    modernrail Member

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    Come on, let's be serious for a moment. If a disabled person and their carer are invited by a TOC to sit in the first class area by virtue of the layout they have chosen, they should not be treated quite literally as second class.

    I actually saw this happen on an East Midlands trains recently. A standard class disabled passenger seated in First Class for some reason. The not that quiet discussion between staff as to whether the passengers were entitled to a free cup of bloody tea was completely undignified for all concerned.
     
  13. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Absolutely.
     
  14. dilbertphil

    dilbertphil Member

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    There was a recent road show at various depots showing the new 1st class offering and it was alot more than tea and biscuits. Lots of nice new complimentary drinks and food.
     
  15. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    They won't be treated as "second class" or in an undignified manner as there will be a guideline in place but you should raise it with the company if you have concerns over it.
     
  16. modernrail

    modernrail Member

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    I am sorry but it just ridiculous to put a disabled passenger in a different class of accommodation and then treat them differently - like they are in a class of one, sticking out like a sore thumb, which is basically the essence of discrimination. Quite apart from it being a disgraceful way to behave you might as well write the newspaper stories in advance. Has anybody even stopped to consider disabilities that could cause the passenger to become confused and frustrated if they see everybody being treated differently to them without clear explanation and how the poor carer has to deal with this sort of situation when they are probably having a tough enough time as it is

    Seriously this place becomes more of a parody of itself every day. A plea to all working these arrangements. Stuff whatever the instruction is. It's a cup of bloody tea and the gentle touch of dignity.

    I would like to think I live in a society where the disabled passenger would be served first but clearly not. If I ever see it happen again I be making my views very clearly known to a number of people. For now I will presume there has been a misunderstanding.
     
    Last edited: 11 Feb 2019
  17. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    Do you know what the policy will be? It's not in the public domain but it will not be treating them as second class citizens or in a discriminatory manner. Again, if you have concerns about the experience wheelchair bound passengers travelling in first class on a standard class ticket will potentially be then you should raise it with the company.
     
  18. modernrail

    modernrail Member

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    What has been suggested and I hope is not true is that they will be offered a different level of service. If that is true to any extent, such as the disabled passenger gets a brew but not the sandwich, or gets something once everybody else has been served, then that would be wrong.

    I very much hope I am concerned due to a misunderstanding. I would feel a lot better if that is the case!
     
  19. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    I don't imagine that, given his position, @driver9000 is allowed to go into more detail about the policy involved here, especially since the 397s are still some way off entering service.
    I'm sure everyone agrees with you that disabled people should not be treated as "second class", but let's at least wait until we know what the policy is going to be before launching into a righteous crusade against TPE? After all, it's not really fair to have a go at them for something they haven't done, and won't do for probably months.
     
  20. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    I agree, that if they are in first class then serve the first class offer.

    However, and noting that the PRM programme is about equality, there might be some who argue that putting wheelchairs into first class with standard class tickets with the full first class offer is discriminatory - against the rest of the standard class passengers. Personally, I’m not bothered about it - anyone in a wheelchair has a hard enough time as it is that getting some perks is fine with me.
     
  21. squizzler

    squizzler Member

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    Apologies for perpetuating this diversion but nobody yet pointed out the obvious that no such thing as second class exists on the railways or has done for decades. This is done so that passengers are not explicitly referred to as an inferior class! Presumably we meant to say standard class.
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    If it looks like a duck...

    (Technically it’s Third, isn’t it?)
     
  23. absolutelymilk

    absolutelymilk Established Member

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    Due to the layout of the new TPE Class 397s, there will not be any wheelchair spaces in Standard class, so any wheelchair users will be upgraded to First Class. Should they receive the normal tea/coffee, water, biscuits and any other food that normally comes with First Class?
     
  24. Lincoln

    Lincoln Member

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    I’d argue yes, in order to minimise any fuss and maintain what it meant to be a nice ambience in there.

    TPE did, after all, specify the train layout!
     
  25. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    And the raw cost of providing those refreshments to TPE to a handful of users is fairly minimal - e.g. coffee that would otherwise get chucked down the drain.

    Would be good PR if nothing else.
     
  26. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Any clumsy attempt to restrict disabled passengers who were using the only accessible seating provided, from benefiting from normal first class refreshments would attract massive criticism of petty meanness. No doubt there are some who would object to anybody getting somethng free when they have had to pay the standard price, but people like that who see the price of everything and the value of nothing creep out of the woodwork everywhere.
     
  27. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Anyone mean enough to complain about that should be politely reminded that they get full able use of their own bodies whereas the people they are complaining about aren't so fortunate.
     
  28. James Heck

    James Heck Member

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    Only having to pay at most 2/3rds of the standard fare, and getting all the first class perks too.

    Bargain!!!
     
  29. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    ...only if you have a Railcard first!
     
  30. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    Looking at the seating plan, the two accessible areas are facing table seats so I would imagine, as alluded to on the 397 thread that users of these would have access to the offerings as it really might get a little awkward otherwise. And as a fairly regular user of TPE First Class I'd certainly not have any problems with it, its a massive upgrade for disabled folk to be inside the main part of the cabin as opposed to the vestibules of the 185s, and its really not going to either cost TPE particularly more & being in a totally separate car isn't going to be visible to Standard passengers, which might sadly have caused issues where First & Standard where in the same car (knowing as I do human nature).
     
  31. J-Rod

    J-Rod Member

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    Yeah, can't see any issue with that. Makes life a bit brighter!
     

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