Should disabled users upgraded to first class receive the full first class offering?

[anamyd]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #21 originally in this thread.

How does the wheelchair space in First Class only work...?

 

[oliverpckehoe]

How does the wheelchair space in First Class only work...?

Wheelchair users get a free upgrade. At least, that's what GWR do on 2C48 (5/10 car IET)

 

[VT 390]

Wheelchair users get a free upgrade. At least, that's what GWR do on 2C48 (5/10 car IET)

Does this mean that they will get everything that comes with first class as well, if so that does not seam right as just because they are in a wheelchair it should not mean that they get free first class all the time. I think it would be better to have 1 space in First class and 1 in standard class.

 

[LOL The Irony]

How does the wheelchair space in First Class only work...?

I'm more concerned about carers travelling with them. Do they have to buy a First Class ticket?

 

[oliverpckehoe]

Does this mean that they will get everything that comes with first class as well, if so that does not seam right as just because they are in a wheelchair it should not mean that they get free first class all the time. I think it would be better to have 1 space in First class and 1 in standard class.

I'm more concerned about carers travelling with them. Do they have to buy a First Class ticket?

I can imagine that they're *technically* not meant to get complimentary refreshments and stuff, but nice catering staff might allow it.

In terms of carers, it would be pretty irresponsible making them pay/travel in standard, so I think TPE will allow that. However, people could exploit that since often one would just take their word for it.

 

[driver9000]

Does this mean that they will get everything that comes with first class as well, if so that does not seam right as just because they are in a wheelchair it should not mean that they get free first class all the time. I think it would be better to have 1 space in First class and 1 in standard class.

No they don't get the full 1st class offering. There is something but I can't remember what it is off hand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No they don't get the full 1st class offering. There is something but I can't remember what it is off hand.

The full offering is just tea, coffee, water and biccies anyway. It's not VT.

 

[Bungle965]

The full offering is just tea, coffee, water and biccies anyway. It's not VT.

I wonder if that'll improve at all when the new fleet comes in.
Sam

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if that'll improve at all when the new fleet comes in.

I hope not, as that will only mean a higher price.

 

[driver9000]

The full offering is just tea, coffee, water and biccies anyway. It's not VT.

Not on the new fleet as the catering will be overhauled. The kitchen isn't just there to look pretty.

 

[modernrail]

No they don't get the full 1st class offering. There is something but I can't remember what it is off hand.

Come on, let's be serious for a moment. If a disabled person and their carer are invited by a TOC to sit in the first class area by virtue of the layout they have chosen, they should not be treated quite literally as second class.

I actually saw this happen on an East Midlands trains recently. A standard class disabled passenger seated in First Class for some reason. The not that quiet discussion between staff as to whether the passengers were entitled to a free cup of bloody tea was completely undignified for all concerned.

 

[Mathew S]

Come on, let's be serious for a moment. If a disabled person and their carer are invited by a TOC to sit in the first class area by virtue of the layout they have chosen, they should not be treated quite literally as second class.

I actually saw this happen on an East Midlands trains recently. A standard class disabled passenger seated in First Class for some reason. The not that quiet discussion between staff as to whether the passengers were entitled to a free cup of bloody tea was completely undignified for all concerned.

Absolutely.

 

[dilbertphil]

The full offering is just tea, coffee, water and biccies anyway. It's not VT.

There was a recent road show at various depots showing the new 1st class offering and it was alot more than tea and biscuits. Lots of nice new complimentary drinks and food.

 

[driver9000]

Come on, let's be serious for a moment. If a disabled person and their carer are invited by a TOC to sit in the first class area by virtue of the layout they have chosen, they should not be treated quite literally as second class.

I actually saw this happen on an East Midlands trains recently. A standard class disabled passenger seated in First Class for some reason. The not that quiet discussion between staff as to whether the passengers were entitled to a free cup of bloody tea was completely undignified for all concerned.

They won't be treated as "second class" or in an undignified manner as there will be a guideline in place but you should raise it with the company if you have concerns over it.

 

[modernrail]

They won't be treated as "second class" or in an undignified manner as there will be a guideline in place but you should raise it with the company if you have concerns over it.

I am sorry but it just ridiculous to put a disabled passenger in a different class of accommodation and then treat them differently - like they are in a class of one, sticking out like a sore thumb, which is basically the essence of discrimination. Quite apart from it being a disgraceful way to behave you might as well write the newspaper stories in advance. Has anybody even stopped to consider disabilities that could cause the passenger to become confused and frustrated if they see everybody being treated differently to them without clear explanation and how the poor carer has to deal with this sort of situation when they are probably having a tough enough time as it is

Seriously this place becomes more of a parody of itself every day. A plea to all working these arrangements. Stuff whatever the instruction is. It's a cup of bloody tea and the gentle touch of dignity.

I would like to think I live in a society where the disabled passenger would be served first but clearly not. If I ever see it happen again I be making my views very clearly known to a number of people. For now I will presume there has been a misunderstanding.

 

[driver9000]

I am sorry but it just ridiculous to put a disabled passenger in a different class of accommodation and then treat them differently - like they are in a class of one, sticking out like a sore thumb, which is basically the essence of discrimination. Quite apart from it being a disgraceful way to behave you might as well write the newspaper stories in advance. Has anybody even stopped to consider disabilities that could cause the passenger to become confused and frustrated if they see everybody being treated differently to them without clear explanation and how the poor carer has to deal with this sort of situation when they are probably having a tough enough time as it is

Seriously this place becomes more of a parody of itself every day. A plea to all working these arrangements. Stuff whatever the instruction is. It's a cup of bloody tea and the gentle touch of dignity.

Do you know what the policy will be? It's not in the public domain but it will not be treating them as second class citizens or in a discriminatory manner. Again, if you have concerns about the experience wheelchair bound passengers travelling in first class on a standard class ticket will potentially be then you should raise it with the company.

 

[modernrail]

Do you know what the policy will be? It's not in the public domain but it will not be treating them as second class citizens or in a discriminatory manner. Again, if you have concerns about the experience wheelchair bound passengers travelling in first class on a standard class ticket will potentially be then you should raise it with the company.

What has been suggested and I hope is not true is that they will be offered a different level of service. If that is true to any extent, such as the disabled passenger gets a brew but not the sandwich, or gets something once everybody else has been served, then that would be wrong.

I very much hope I am concerned due to a misunderstanding. I would feel a lot better if that is the case!

 

[Mathew S]

What has been suggested and I hope is not true is that they will be offered a different level of service. If that is true to any extent, such as the disabled passenger gets a brew but not the sandwich, or gets something once everybody else has been served, then that would be wrong.

I very much hope I am concerned due to a misunderstanding. I would feel a lot better if that is the case!

I don't imagine that, given his position, @driver9000 is allowed to go into more detail about the policy involved here, especially since the 397s are still some way off entering service.
I'm sure everyone agrees with you that disabled people should not be treated as "second class", but let's at least wait until we know what the policy is going to be before launching into a righteous crusade against TPE? After all, it's not really fair to have a go at them for something they haven't done, and won't do for probably months.

 

[43096]

I am sorry but it just ridiculous to put a disabled passenger in a different class of accommodation and then treat them differently - like they are in a class of one, sticking out like a sore thumb, which is basically the essence of discrimination. Quite apart from it being a disgraceful way to behave you might as well write the newspaper stories in advance. Has anybody even stopped to consider disabilities that could cause the passenger to become confused and frustrated if they see everybody being treated differently to them without clear explanation and how the poor carer has to deal with this sort of situation when they are probably having a tough enough time as it is

Seriously this place becomes more of a parody of itself every day. A plea to all working these arrangements. Stuff whatever the instruction is. It's a cup of bloody tea and the gentle touch of dignity.

I would like to think I live in a society where the disabled passenger would be served first but clearly not. If I ever see it happen again I be making my views very clearly known to a number of people. For now I will presume there has been a misunderstanding.

I agree, that if they are in first class then serve the first class offer.

However, and noting that the PRM programme is about equality, there might be some who argue that putting wheelchairs into first class with standard class tickets with the full first class offer is discriminatory - against the rest of the standard class passengers. Personally, I’m not bothered about it - anyone in a wheelchair has a hard enough time as it is that getting some perks is fine with me.

 

[squizzler]

If a disabled person and their carer are invited by a TOC to sit in the first class area by virtue of the layout they have chosen, they should not be treated quite literally as second class.

Apologies for perpetuating this diversion but nobody yet pointed out the obvious that no such thing as second class exists on the railways or has done for decades. This is done so that passengers are not explicitly referred to as an inferior class! Presumably we meant to say standard class.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apologies for perpetuating this diversion but nobody yet pointed out the obvious that no such thing as second class exists on the railways or has done for decades. This is done so that passengers are not explicitly referred to as an inferior class! Presumably we meant to say standard class.

If it looks like a duck...

(Technically it’s Third, isn’t it?)

 

[absolutelymilk]

Due to the layout of the new TPE Class 397s, there will not be any wheelchair spaces in Standard class, so any wheelchair users will be upgraded to First Class. Should they receive the normal tea/coffee, water, biscuits and any other food that normally comes with First Class?

 

[Lincoln]

I’d argue yes, in order to minimise any fuss and maintain what it meant to be a nice ambience in there.

TPE did, after all, specify the train layout!

 

[Ianno87]

And the raw cost of providing those refreshments to TPE to a handful of users is fairly minimal - e.g. coffee that would otherwise get chucked down the drain.

Would be good PR if nothing else.

 

[AM9]

And the raw cost of providing those refreshments to TPE to a handful of users is fairly minimal - e.g. coffee that would otherwise get chucked down the drain.

Would be good PR if nothing else.

Any clumsy attempt to restrict disabled passengers who were using the only accessible seating provided, from benefiting from normal first class refreshments would attract massive criticism of petty meanness. No doubt there are some who would object to anybody getting somethng free when they have had to pay the standard price, but people like that who see the price of everything and the value of nothing creep out of the woodwork everywhere.

 

[Ianno87]

Any clumsy attempt to restrict disabled passengers who were using the only accessible seating provided, from benefiting from normal first class refreshments would attract massive criticism of petty meanness. No doubt there are some who would object to anybody getting somethng free when they have had to pay the standard price, but people like that who see the price of everything and the value of nothing creep out of the woodwork everywhere.

Anyone mean enough to complain about that should be politely reminded that they get full able use of their own bodies whereas the people they are complaining about aren't so fortunate.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Any clumsy attempt to restrict disabled passengers who were using the only accessible seating provided, from benefiting from normal first class refreshments would attract massive criticism of petty meanness. No doubt there are some who would object to anybody getting somethng free when they have had to pay the standard price, but people like that who see the price of everything and the value of nothing creep out of the woodwork everywhere.

Only having to pay at most 2/3rds of the standard fare, and getting all the first class perks too.

Bargain!!!

 

[Ianno87]

Only having to pay at most 2/3rds of the standard fare, and getting all the first class perks too.

Bargain!!!

...only if you have a Railcard first!

 

[Bantamzen]

Looking at the seating plan, the two accessible areas are facing table seats so I would imagine, as alluded to on the 397 thread that users of these would have access to the offerings as it really might get a little awkward otherwise. And as a fairly regular user of TPE First Class I'd certainly not have any problems with it, its a massive upgrade for disabled folk to be inside the main part of the cabin as opposed to the vestibules of the 185s, and its really not going to either cost TPE particularly more & being in a totally separate car isn't going to be visible to Standard passengers, which might sadly have caused issues where First & Standard where in the same car (knowing as I do human nature).

 

[J-Rod]

Yeah, can't see any issue with that. Makes life a bit brighter!