Should more XC services call at Worcestershire Parkway (WOP)?

[hexagon789]

I have to say that I am pleased that it is being patronised to an extent that wasn't anticipated for a few years. Maybe its success might convince X-Country to stop its really long distance trains there.

Worcestershire Parkway passenger numbers exceed all expectations | Worcestershire County Council

More than 540,000 journeys have been made from Worcestershire Parkway Railway Station in the space of 12 months – exceeding all expectations.

www.worcestershire.gov.uk

Was it not always the intention to provide calls in Plymouth/Edinburgh and Bristol/Manchester workings?

(Albeit not immediately from opening but in the near future.)

It is good to see decent patronage though, given some recent ones have been a little tenuous.

 

[The Planner]

Was it not always the intention to provide calls in Plymouth/Edinburgh and Bristol/Manchester workings?

(Albeit not immediately from opening but in the near future.)

It is good to see decent patronage though, given some recent ones have been a little tenuous.

In a word, no.

 

[hexagon789]

In a word, no.

That it was never the intention?
That it isn't happening in the near future?
That it is never happening?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Connections aren't the greatest, however, particularly to/from Shrub Hill.

 

[The Planner]

That it was never the intention?
That it isn't happening in the near future?
That it is never happening?

The latter.

 

[hexagon789]

The latter.

Is there a particular reason adding calls to the other XC routes was scrapped?

 

[anthony263]

Think one issue was it would add to much time to the schedule on the longer distance crosscountry routes thats why they only really agreed to stop the Cardiff to Nottingham service there.

Mind you during the last couple of months I've been.on quite a few Plymouth/Bristol to Birmingham and onto Manchester, Newcastle services etc which have had to make additional stops at Worcestershire parkway because of cancellation of the Nottingham services. I've found trains still had enough padding to get to Birmingham or Cheltenham on time so there can't be too much of a time penalty.

I think a platform on the line coming off the mainline towards shrub Hill which gwr services use would be good even if they had to build a long walkway to the other parts of the station

 

[Unixman]

Enormous pressure is being put on X Country to make more services stop at WOP - at a political level.
Whether it works ( the pressure ) remains to be seen.

This is a press report from the Worcester News describing the political pressure being applied.

Plan to add more services at new county railway station

Plans to expand the offering at a county railway station have been welcomed.

www.worcesternews.co.uk

 

[AlbertBeale]

Enormous pressure is being put on X Country to make more services stop at WOP - at a political level.
Whether it works ( the pressure ) remains to be seen.

Plan to add more services at new county railway station

Plans to expand the offering at a county railway station have been welcomed.

www.worcesternews.co.uk

If more XC services did call, and if the area around the new station gets developed (with housing, schools, etc, as planned when the station was proposed), might the hourly Cotswold Line connection into the main Worcester stations be usefully upgraded? Maybe a shuttle out of Worcester (at peak times at least) to the Parkway station, and perhaps on to Pershore before turning back? If this ran in the gaps between longer-distance Cotswold Line services, it would reduce connection times in and out of XC at Parkway for people travelling to, or connecting in, Worcester.

 

[Brissle Girl]

With so many XC services being rammed, adding stops that would make the problem worse would not be a good idea. If most of that traffic generated was local (say to Birm New St), it would be completely contrary to the current XC strategy as set out recently in an article about XC in Modern Railways.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

might the hourly Cotswold Line connection into the main Worcester stations be usefully upgraded? Maybe a shuttle out of Worcester (at peak times at least) to the Parkway station, and perhaps on to Pershore before turning back?

The partial redoubling proposed by the North Cotswold Line Taskforce would actually support 3tph Worcester-Evesham in theory - two Paddingtons plus an additional hourly shuttle. (In practice you’d have to drop out a handful of the shuttle journeys to retain paths to Long Marston.)

But that’s not the service pattern that the NCLTF is proposing. Instead they’re suggesting retaining 1tph at both Pershore and Evesham until the Stratford line is reopened (=probably never). Their focus is on speeding up Paddington journeys from Worcester for the twelve people who want to do that, plus adding Kidderminster-London trains because that worked so well when Chiltern tried it. Sigh.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If more XC services did call, and if the area around the new station gets developed (with housing, schools, etc, as planned when the station was proposed), might the hourly Cotswold Line connection into the main Worcester stations be usefully upgraded? Maybe a shuttle out of Worcester (at peak times at least) to the Parkway station, and perhaps on to Pershore before turning back? If this ran in the gaps between longer-distance Cotswold Line services, it would reduce connection times in and out of XC at Parkway for people travelling to, or connecting in, Worcester.

It might well be useful. It would be quite hard to timetable it though to give regular half-hourly intervals between trains because Worcester Parkway and Pershore are both on a long single-track section. And it would definitely require a Cotswolds line timetable recast because currently, the trains to Worcester and the trains to Oxford depart from the same Worcester Parkway platform almost exactly half an hour apart, so you'd presumably want the additional train to Worcester to be leaving at the same time as the current train to Oxford

 

[Unixman]

AlbertBeale​

The South Worcestershire development plan calls for just that. At the moment WOP ( an ugly station code ) is seen as been of strategic importance with anything up to 5,000 new homes being built around it in the next 10 years or so and many more after that. In essence we are looking at a new town being centred on the station.

You can read the gory details here: https://www.swdevelopmentplan.org/component/fileman/file/Documents/SWDPR Reg 19 Docs/WP Evidence Base/081122_WP Spatial Framework Nov_updated.pdf?routed=1&container=fileman-files

 

[geoffk]

A former colleague told me the story of trying to get more XC stops at Ashchurch, to provide it with a decent service to Birmingham (formerly offered by Central Trains and before that Wales & West). XC were adamant they didn't want to stop any more Cardiff - Nottinghams there and they removed the few stops at Bromsgrove. XC did however put in stops at Lydney and Chepstow. There's nothing from Ashchurch to Birmingham between 08.03 and 13.03 and the opening of WOP makes it even less likely that will change.

I formerly worked for Worcestershire County Council and I'd be interested to know how much extra road traffic the new station has generated and how many rail journeys abstracted from other stations, e.g. Pershore, Shrub Hill and indeed Ashchurch. Other comments suggests that this is unlikely to remain a green-field site for long.

 

[Unixman]

A former colleague told me the story of trying to get more XC stops at Ashchurch, to provide it with a decent service to Birmingham (formerly offered by Central Trains and before that Wales & West). XC were adamant they didn't want to stop any more Cardiff - Nottinghams there and they removed the few stops at Bromsgrove. XC did however put in stops at Lydney and Chepstow. There's nothing from Ashchurch to Birmingham between 08.03 and 13.03 and the opening of WOP makes it even less likely that will change.

I formerly worked for Worcestershire County Council and I'd be interested to know how much extra road traffic the new station has generated and how many rail journeys abstracted from other stations, e.g. Pershore, Shrub Hill and indeed Ashchurch. Other comments suggests that this is unlikely to remain a green-field site for long.

To be fair: it is a parkway so I would expect a fair amount of extra road traffic. What is bad is the poor public transport from WOP to both Pershore and Worcester, plus the dangerous Church Road/Woodbury Lane cycling route which is a death trap with the bridge over the railway by Norton Junction signal box being especially bad. The expensive bit, the bridge over Crookbarrow Road, is done but the good cycle route stops at the old barracks.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

To be fair: it is a parkway so I would expect a fair amount of extra road traffic. What is bad is the poor public transport from WOP to both Pershore and Worcester, plus the dangerous Church Road/Woodbury Lane cycling route which is a death trap with the bridge over the railway by Norton Junction signal box being especially bad. The expensive bit, the bridge over Crookbarrow Road, is done but the good cycle route stops at the old barracks.

Yes - there needs to be an LTN-style point closure somewhere along the Church Road/Woodbury Lane route. Now that Crookbarrow Way has been upgraded, it's pretty much as quick to access Norton village that way rather than via Church Road. But WCC won't do anything that inconveniences motorists even in the slightest.

The other missed opportunity for cycling to Worcestershire Parkway is the access from Woodbury Lane - if you're catching a train to Birmingham, you lock up your bike next to the platform, walk over the footbridge, then double back on yourself and walk over the station bridge, ending up two metres from where you started. Just put a ramp in direct to the Birmingham platform... it's not like it's a barriered station.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Enormous pressure is being put on X Country to make more services stop at WOP - at a political level.
Whether it works ( the pressure ) remains to be seen.

Plan to add more services at new county railway station

Plans to expand the offering at a county railway station have been welcomed.

www.worcesternews.co.uk

Not sure that an MP calling for it amounts to enormous political pressure, as MPs tend to call for lots of nice things all the time

To my mind, if politicians, want XC to stop the long-distance trains there, then those politicians need to find the money to provide XC with enough rolling stock to run something like the pre-Covid half-hourly Bristol-Birmingham timetable with proper length trains (Talking of which, what's happening to the Voyagers that Avanti will be getting rid of soon?)

 

[py_megapixel]

I think it would be a good idea to have a semi-fast Birmingham-Gloucester service run by WMT 196s - New Street, University, Bromsgrove, WOP, Ashchurch, Cheltenham, Gloucester - and then remove all XC calls at University, Ashchurch and WOP.

Fare setting responsibility should be transferred from XC to WMT as well!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I think it would be a good idea to have a semi-fast Birmingham-Gloucester service run by WMT 196s - New Street, University, Bromsgrove, WOP, Ashchurch, Cheltenham, Gloucester - and then remove all XC calls at University, Ashchurch and WOP.

I could see that working well, although I'd probably extend it to Bristol Temple Meads, and I wouldn't remove the Worcester Parkway call from the XC Cardiff service.

Might need some work sorting out paths into Birmingham though.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not sure that an MP calling for it amounts to enormous political pressure, as MPs tend to call for lots of nice things all the time

To my mind, if politicians, want XC to stop the long-distance trains there, then those politicians need to find the money to provide XC with enough rolling stock to run something like the pre-Covid half-hourly Bristol-Birmingham timetable with proper length trains (Talking of which, what's happening to the Voyagers that Avanti will be getting rid of soon?)

The rumours are that if 142 and 143 find favour with Grand Central, eight more may replace the 180s. Nothing even slightly confirmed though.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Surely it would make sense, if additional calls on the North-South axis would be made, would be to extend the WM moor Street - Worcester via Stourbridge to Parkway and build the missing platform so then WMR could use it as a terminus?

 

[The Planner]

Surely it would make sense, if additional calls on the North-South axis would be made, would be to extend the WM moor Street - Worcester via Stourbridge to Parkway and build the missing platform so then WMR could use it as a terminus?

You could probably timetable a terminator there now, though I dont think the signaling allows it.

 

[py_megapixel]

I could see that working well, although I'd probably extend it to Bristol Temple Meads, and I wouldn't remove the Worcester Parkway call from the XC Cardiff service.

Might need some work sorting out paths into Birmingham though.

It might do. Wild suggestion: if there's that much of a shortage of capacity split it off the current Hereford service at Bromsgrove? Although it would still require some messing around with the timetable in Birmingham, as I think the paths in Gloucester wouldn't line up as it stands.

(yes, I know that won't happen)

 

[PsychoMouse]

It might do. Wild suggestion: if there's that much of a shortage of capacity split it off the current Hereford service at Bromsgrove? Although it would still require some messing around with the timetable in Birmingham, as I think the paths in Gloucester wouldn't line up as it stands.

(yes, I know that won't happen)

Those Hereford and Worcester trains are often sardinesque already, without them being halved.

 

[py_megapixel]

Those Hereford and Worcester trains are often sardinesque already, without them being halved.

I was assuming that if this were to happen (which I'm near-certain it won't, as splitting/joining services seem to be very much out of fashion at the moment, as does any sort of investment in the railway really), some more 196s or other suitable DMUs would have to be ordered.

 

[deltic08]

I could see that working well, although I'd probably extend it to Bristol Temple Meads, and I wouldn't remove the Worcester Parkway call from the XC Cardiff service.

Might need some work sorting out paths into Birmingham though.

I would extend it to Cardiff stopping at all stations from Gloucester, 5 soon to be 6 and 7 if Magor is opened, to replace the current Cardiff-Gloucester/Cheltenham stoppers. XC could then have a faster limited stop service from Cardiff stopping at Newport, Gloucester, Cheltenham, Birmingham only. Debatable if XC includes stops at WOP.
Ideal service for operation by hybrids.

 

[TheWalrus]

The partial redoubling proposed by the North Cotswold Line Taskforce would actually support 3tph Worcester-Evesham in theory - two Paddingtons plus an additional hourly shuttle. (In practice you’d have to drop out a handful of the shuttle journeys to retain paths to Long Marston.)

But that’s not the service pattern that the NCLTF is proposing. Instead they’re suggesting retaining 1tph at both Pershore and Evesham until the Stratford line is reopened (=probably never). Their focus is on speeding up Paddington journeys from Worcester for the twelve people who want to do that, plus adding Kidderminster-London trains because that worked so well when Chiltern tried it. Sigh.

That 12 people may increase if the service was quicker and more reliable. I believe in recent years it has been quicker to go to London via Birmingham. Chiltern served Kidderminster for as long as I can remember- was it that much of a failure? Perhaps the route was too long via Birmingham and a more direct route into Paddington via Oxford would be more desirable and as a result better used?

 

[PsychoMouse]

I live in Bromsgrove and wondered why GWR don't serve north Worcestershire. People round here, despite being closer to Birmingham have more ties with Worcester.

Wonder is there's a scope for starting a few Worcs-Paddington services from Bromsgrove or extending some through Kiddy to Snow Hill?

Feel like they missed a trick not putting a curve in from the Cross Country to the Cotswold line too.

 

[The Planner]

I live in Bromsgrove and wondered why GWR don't serve north Worcestershire. People round here, despite being closer to Birmingham have more ties with Worcester.

Wonder is there's a scope for starting a few Worcs-Paddington services from Bromsgrove or extending some through Kiddy to Snow Hill?

Feel like they missed a trick not putting a curve in from the Cross Country to the Cotswold line too.

There are aspirations for Kiddy, you won't get them to Snow Hill though.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I live in Bromsgrove and wondered why GWR don't serve north Worcestershire. People round here, despite being closer to Birmingham have more ties with Worcester.

Wonder is there's a scope for starting a few Worcs-Paddington services from Bromsgrove or extending some through Kiddy to Snow Hill?

Feel like they missed a trick not putting a curve in from the Cross Country to the Cotswold line too.

Realistically, once HS2 is running London-Birmingham in 45 minutes, no-one around Bromsgrove/etc. will be interested in going to London via the Cotswolds (unless there are some ridiculously cheap fares on that route). I would imagine that, even from Worcester, most people travelling to London will prefer to go via Birmingham (unless the fares are somehow set to discourage that).