Should SWR have invested more in spent more money on Desiro repaints / interior refurbishments?

[Dan15812]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/swr-repaints-and-refurbishments.152252/page-82#post-4241224

Personally I feel SWR should have ditched the 442 plan, but spent more money on the Desiro repaint/ interior refurbishments.

For example: Blue/ Yellow grab handles, toilets gutted and re installed, USB plug sockets, LCD screens at the end of each coach, luggage rack stand and mood lighting in first class.

 

[RealTrains07]

Personally I feel SWR should have ditched the 442 plan, but spent more money on the Desiro repaint/ interior refurbishments.

For example: Blue/ Yellow grab handles, toilets gutted and re installed, USB plug sockets, LCD screens at the end of each coach, luggage rack stand and mood lighting in first class.

I agree they should have done that. LNR has put luggage racks where the guard office used to be on the 350s. So their is an ideal space for it to go

Something i learnt at northam was that the blue hand grabs were a new mould costing a lot per handle. I think it was £90 but not sure?

even navy grab poles would have been suitable. Even at the doors.

 

[Bn2020]

Personally I feel SWR should have ditched the 442 plan, but spent more money on the Desiro repaint/ interior refurbishments.

For example: Blue/ Yellow grab handles, toilets gutted and re installed, USB plug sockets, LCD screens at the end of each coach, luggage rack stand and mood lighting in first class.

I disagree. The seats are more needed than luggage storage. There aren’t huge amounts of luggage on the majority of routes using the 450s. The 444s have a bit more, but I’ve never seen the overheads full. Seats are almost always in short supply though.

As for the grab poles, the orange might be stagecoach but it works well against the navy, providing a good contrast. Which is the purpose, I assume.

 

[sd0733]

Personally I feel SWR should have ditched the 442 plan, but spent more money on the Desiro repaint/ interior refurbishments.

For example: Blue/ Yellow grab handles, toilets gutted and re installed, USB plug sockets, LCD screens at the end of each coach, luggage rack stand and mood lighting in first class.

Surely the two arent really connected. The 442s are for much needed additonal capacity. As much as they are nice to have USB ports and new toilets dont provide any additional seats

 

[RealTrains07]

Surely the two arent really connected. The 442s are for much needed additonal capacity. As much as they are nice to have USB ports and new toilets dont provide any additional seats

Your need a miracle if you expect more seats on a 4 car desiro. Their is gonna be a limit eventually and other priorities

 

[59CosG95]

Your need a miracle if you expect more seats on a 4 car desiro. Their is gonna be a limit eventually and other priorities

Exactly. That's why the 442s were planned to be introduced in the first place!

 

[K.o.R]

USB plug sockets

I'd much rather have the normal 13A sockets they've installed. There's a really bad trend lately of removing normal sockets and replacing them with USB sockets only. It's happening in hotel rooms too.

 

[rwuk]

Personally I feel SWR should have ditched the 442 plan, but spent more money on the Desiro repaint/ interior refurbishments

So instead of increasing capacity on existing services and also adding additional services, the money would be better spent on painting the outside of the trains?

 

[Dan15812]

I'd much rather have the normal 13A sockets they've installed. There's a really bad trend lately of removing normal sockets and replacing them with USB sockets only. It's happening in hotel rooms too.

I ment the 3-pin socket with the USB on top, like on the GWR 158's or Refurbished 350's.

 

[RealTrains07]

Exactly. That's why the 442s were planned to be introduced in the first place!

And even they have updated stickers and painted rails

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

Personally I feel SWR should have ditched the 442 plan, but spent more money on the Desiro repaint/ interior refurbishments.

For example: Blue/ Yellow grab handles, toilets gutted and re installed, USB plug sockets, LCD screens at the end of each coach, luggage rack stand and mood lighting in first class.

I kind of agree. Personally I think SWR shouldn't have decided to refurbish 442s. Because of their age, they've had lots of issues. Instead they should have ordered and leased from new trains from a ROSCO (I know this would probably take longer but at least it's unlikely they would have technical issues in the future).

 

[swt_passenger]

Personally I think SWR shouldn't have decided to refurbish 442s. Because of their age, they've had lots of issues. Instead they should have bought new trains (I know this would probably take longer but at least it's unlikely they would have technical issues).

TOCs almost never buy trains. You mean order and lease from a ROSCO.

Personally I feel SWR should have ditched the 442 plan, but spent more money on the Desiro repaint/ interior refurbishments...

With hindsight 442s may well have been a bad idea, but they’d have still needed a similar quantity of some other 100 mph stock to run the DfT’s specified and negotiated timetable improvements.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

TOCs almost never buy trains. You mean order and lease from a ROSCO.

Yes, I've amended it.

 

[Bigfoot]

Logic says the 450/444/158/159 fleets will all be replaced during the next franchise which given the life left in the 442 they are a perfect stop gap to increase fleet size until all longer distance stock is replaced in one go. Having a separate minifleet of new builds would not help things in the long run.

Please do not reply with there's 20 years left in the fleet etc etc. In a decades time replacement parts for the desiro fleet running Windows for Workgroups (think 3.1) on 486's will be almost impossible to get hold of for a sensible cost.

 

[The Ham]

Logic says the 450/444/158/159 fleets will all be replaced during the next franchise which given the life left in the 442 they are a perfect stop gap to increase fleet size until all longer distance stock is replaced in one go. Having a separate minifleet of new builds would not help things in the long run.

Please do not reply with there's 20 years left in the fleet etc etc. In a decades time replacement parts for the desiro fleet running Windows for Workgroups (think 3.1) on 486's will be almost impossible to get hold of for a sensible cost.

By the time of the next franchise and then by the time any new fleet is fully delivered it's likely to be sub 15 years before the 444/450's turn 40. Whilst if it goes to the following franchise then it's likely to be getting closer to about 5 years.

The other thing to consider is that if you are replacing the 158/159 fleets then there a case to be made to have one large uniform fleet of Bimodals which can go anywhere and allow longer/more frequent services to Weymouth whilst removing the pressure on all the other current electric supply systems elsewhere.

 

[daveshah]

I do wonder if the next franchise will go for more Aventras (with different interior spec, of course) to replace the Desiros. This would certainly make sense from a maintenance and spares point of view.

 

[swt_passenger]

I do wonder if the next franchise will go for more Aventras (with different interior spec, of course) to replace the Desiros. This would certainly make sense from a maintenance and spares point of view.

I don’t seriously think maintenance and spares (and crew training) would be a factor here.

This isn’t a minor part of the combined SWR EMU fleet, it’ll still be 732 vehicles compared to the 750 Aventras, and they are completely separate maintenance regimes, based on Northam and Wimbledon. There may be a small amount of stabling that deals with both, but most maintenance staff will only ever be concerned with one fleet.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think of all flaws with the refurbishment scheme, retaining the Futura font everywhere inside the refurbished Desiros looks quite frankly a bit lazy.

 

[RealTrains07]

I do wonder if the next franchise will go for more Aventras (with different interior spec, of course) to replace the Desiros. This would certainly make sense from a maintenance and spares point of view.

Doubt it, I would say they are more for metro style services not made for fast services like Portsmouth.

Plus its not like they are any better interior wise than the work that has been done to the desiros

 

[Energy]

To be honest I think ordering more 444s would have been more sensible, LM/FTPE ordered more 350s, wonder if some of the tooling still exists?

 

[RealTrains07]

To be honest I think ordering more 444s would have been more sensible, LM/FTPE ordered more 350s, wonder if some of the tooling still exists?

If that was possible SWT probably would have done so before 2017 however siemens no longer build the original desiro unit types. 701s and the 442s was really the only option in getting suitable DC units in time

 

[Energy]

If that was possible SWT probably would have done so before 2017 however siemens no longer build the original desiro unit types. 701s and the 442s was really the only option in getting suitable DC units in time

Is the tooling for the 444s/450s/350s still intact? If it is I would be suprised if Siemens wouldn't build it if ordered.

 

[RealTrains07]

Is the tooling for the 444s/450s/350s still intact? If it is I would be suprised if Siemens wouldn't build it if ordered.

Well during the 350/4s constructions the workers at siemens had to re learn some of the processes as by that point some of the techniques involved in building desiro trains had moved on already. (hence why we how have the desiro city platform)

so I guess it might have been an option but highly unlikely to be done.

If they had wanted desiros that badly the 350/2s coming off LNR could be converted to DC 3rd rail? This has been discussed in other SWR threads before but their has always been questions on capacity and number of units compared to whats needed.