Should the Concessionary Fares Scheme be 24/7?

[Deerfold]

Actually, Freedom Passes can't, I've tried on several occasions to board non-TfL buses in the London area before 9:30 (84,402,477 and the 757) only to be told that I have to pay. I did some research and indeed, Freedom Passes can't be used on non TfL buses before the 9:30 time, even when boarding in the London boroughs.

I think that's changed since I last looked it up.

https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/freedom-pass/using-pass/bus

Perhaps it saves a little money without inconveniencing many people.

Your pass is also valid on local bus services run by other bus companies which are outside the TfL bus network. Your pass will be valid Monday-Friday 09:30 - 23:00 and anytime at weekends and on public holidays.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Do you think British Concessionary passes should be required to be valid for travel at all times or do you think 24/7 free travel should continue to be discretionary?

How about a compromise? Allow 24 hour travel to Disabled persons

In Scotland the Citylink services are popular, fully booked at times , concession pass holders a good reason for that

Some local authorities in popular tourist areas have pointed out that they are doling out payment, but the government grant is going elsewhere. e.g. more residents of Barnsley take holidays in Cornwall, than residents of Cornwall indulge in a fortnight in sun-kissed Barnsley.

IMO, OAP passes should be harmonised between the 3 nations and those pass holders should be restricted to their 'Home' EU region, with the likes of NX/Mega/Citylink being excluded with a block on travel between start - 0930/1630-1830/2300-end of service. The time blocks would allow for full fare paying passengers during the peaks.

Disabled, on the other hand, should be entitled to travel for free throughout the 3 nations and pay a max fare of say £10 on all coach services, if not less with no blocks on time.

 

[Eyersey468]

I've always felt one of the mistakes the government made was allowing local discretion with the times. The company I drive for operates in several council areas and each one has there own views on the times the passes are valid, for example Hull cou cil will pay for Hull passes before 9.30 but not any others, East Riding Council says 9.30, North Yorkshire is after 9.00 etc etc, so we end up in situations where one person can use their pass but someone else can't. To me either everyone should be a le to use them or nobody should.

 

[robk23oxf]

I've always felt one of the mistakes the government made was allowing local discretion with the times. The company I drive for operates in several council areas and each one has there own views on the times the passes are valid, for example Hull cou cil will pay for Hull passes before 9.30 but not any others, East Riding Council says 9.30, North Yorkshire is after 9.00 etc etc, so we end up in situations where one person can use their pass but someone else can't. To me either everyone should be a le to use them or nobody should.

It gets even better when you have routes that cross county boundaries. An OAP can board the 09:00 500 Banbury-Brackley service at Banbury Bus Station but they can only go 4 stops down the road before the route crosses into Northamptonshire where the bus passes can't be used until 09:30.

 

[Robertj21a]

It gets even better when you have routes that cross county boundaries. An OAP can board the 09:00 500 Banbury-Brackley service at Banbury Bus Station but they can only go 4 stops down the road before the route crosses into Northamptonshire where the bus passes can't be used until 09:30.

But that won't matter to those already on the bus.

 

[robk23oxf]

But that won't matter to those already on the bus.

It does when Doris can board at 09:00 using her pass but her friend Brenda gets on at 09:15 and has to pay. Two people using the same bus but because they live a couple of miles apart, one pays and the other doesn't. There does need to be consistency across the country. Even in one county the time at which the bus passes are valid can vary from route to route, I'm looking at you Gloucestershire.

 

[Robertj21a]

It does when Doris can board at 09:00 using her pass but her friend Brenda gets on at 09:15 and has to pay. Two people using the same bus but because they live a couple of miles apart, one pays and the other doesn't. There does need to be consistency across the country. Even in one county the time at which the bus passes are valid can vary from route to route, I'm looking at you Gloucestershire.

Yes, well obviously that's going to happen when you include 2 people getting on at different stops!
The national requirement is from 09.30 Mon-Fri so anything earlier is down to the local authority.

 

[matt_world2004]

It gets even better when you have routes that cross county boundaries. An OAP can board the 09:00 500 Banbury-Brackley service at Banbury Bus Station but they can only go 4 stops down the road before the route crosses into Northamptonshire where the bus passes can't be used until 09:30.

I would argue that is something the relevant councils should sort out during the tendering process.

 

[jamestaylor94]

I drive in Hull and our concessionary passes are 24/7. I believe they should be put back to 0930 like they are in East Riding of Yorkshire. Far too often you're doing a busy route which people rely on for work/school and there are pensioners at every stop getting on with shopping trolleys, taking up pram space.

There are far too many freeloaders nowadays. I did a 35 minute run yesterday and had 1 paying passenger and 25 concessionary passes.

 

[Samuel88]

I drive in Hull and our concessionary passes are 24/7. I believe they should be put back to 0930 like they are in East Riding of Yorkshire. Far too often you're doing a busy route which people rely on for work/school and there are pensioners at every stop getting on with shopping trolleys, taking up pram space.

There are far too many freeloaders nowadays. I did a 35 minute run yesterday and had 1 paying passenger and 25 concessionary passes.

Freeloaders? That's a strong word. Most of these pensioners have been contributing and paying taxes almost all of their adult lives. Surely we can give something back other than the measly public pension.

 

[matt_world2004]

I drive in Hull and our concessionary passes are 24/7. I believe they should be put back to 0930 like they are in East Riding of Yorkshire. Far too often you're doing a busy route which people rely on for work/school and there are pensioners at every stop getting on with shopping trolleys, taking up pram space.

There are far too many freeloaders nowadays. I did a 35 minute run yesterday and had 1 paying passenger and 25 concessionary passes.

It is quite likely the route is dependant on concessionary revenue to keep operational and would not otherwise run without ENCTS passes in this case.

In London the per ticket revenue return from. Freedom Passes on buses is higher than travel cards. It is something like £1.05 per trip on a bus in revenue return compared to 60p per travelcard trip.

 

[jamestaylor94]

Freeloaders? That's a strong word. Most of these pensioners have been contributing and paying taxes almost all of their adult lives. Surely we can give something back other than the measly public pension.

Its not necessarily the pensioners when i say freeloaders. Several of our routes go down areas when people have come from other countries. (I'm not a racist before people get on their highhorse). I just don't understand how 95% of them of all ages have a free pass?

 

[Eyersey468]

It gets even better when you have routes that cross county boundaries. An OAP can board the 09:00 500 Banbury-Brackley service at Banbury Bus Station but they can only go 4 stops down the road before the route crosses into Northamptonshire where the bus passes can't be used until 09:30.

Freeloaders? That's a strong word. Most of these pensioners have been contributing and paying taxes almost all of their adult lives. Surely we can give something back other than the measly public pension.

OAPs don't just get a pension though, they get a lot of concessions

 

[jamestaylor94]

OAPs don't just get a pension though, they get a lot of concessions

And take advantage of the system. You can do the same run for 5 days in a row and they will get that bus everyday just for the sake of getting it

 

[Samuel88]

OAPs don't just get a pension though, they get a lot of concessions

The only reason pensioners get so many 'freebies' is because the pension pays so little. Up the pension to the Northern European average and we can then start to talk about withdrawing these concessions.

 

[Deerfold]

Its not necessarily the pensioners when i say freeloaders. Several of our routes go down areas when people have come from other countries. (I'm not a racist before people get on their highhorse). I just don't understand how 95% of them of all ages have a free pass?

How do you know which country someone has come from when they get on a bus?

The rules for passes are fairly strict.
If you think people have got them fraudulently you can mention this to your local council. Otherwise it's be good to just accept them without badmouthing them.

 

[Deerfold]

And take advantage of the system. You can do the same run for 5 days in a row and they will get that bus everyday just for the sake of getting it

Have they told you this?
My dad used to use his bus pass daily for getting to medical treatment.

 

[Deerfold]

I would argue that is something the relevant councils should sort out during the tendering process.

What tendering process?

 

[robk23oxf]

Having the government set the rules but having local councils pay for it is an issue that needs to be addressed. We have councils struggling with the cost of paying for concessionary passes but there's nothing they can do as they're legally obliged to fund them. We have different card formats in different areas so a pass from one region doesn't work in all other regions. A national concession pass scheme covering England, Scotland and Wales administered and paid for by the government would be the ideal solution. A universal system with rules that apply on whatever bus you get on wherever that may be is a good idea in theory although how this might actually work is another question. Would the cost of administering a national system be cheaper than the cost of all the individual systems we currently have?

The idea of a small per-journey fare has been talked down on here so how about a small fee at the renewal every five years? Currently the only charge is for replacing lost or damaged cards.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

In Nottinghamshire we used to have a half fare travel for pensioners at any time. My Mother was quite happy to pay half fare & you didn't get the 930am pension rush. She has just paid £2.90 at 9.28am, on an on time bus, this morning to get to a 10am doctors appointment.
My opinion is that a £1 single or £1.50 any operator day ticket for pensioners purchased on the first bus they use would be quite sensible.

 

[Typhoon]

The idea of a small per-journey fare has been talked down on here so how about a small fee at the renewal every five years? Currently the only charge is for replacing lost or damaged cards.

I would have no problem with that. I find it difficult to understand how a neighbour, who cannot walk to the nearest bus stop, has to pay for a Blue Badge, while I, who can, incur no expense for my pass.

One reservation - the year on year increase would need to be fixed otherwise in a few years time the fee may not be so small. Also, the current card is sent automatically, is there some way of requesting the fee without incurring costs which make heavy indentations into it (e-mail could help?).

 

[robk23oxf]

She has just paid £2.90 at 9.28am, on an on time bus, this morning to get to a 10am doctors appointment.

She could've paid to wherever the bus would be at 09:30 and then gone back to the driver and put her pass on the machine when it gets there.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

She could've paid to wherever the bus would be at 09:30 and then gone back to the driver and put her pass on the machine when it gets there.

That is not permitted. There have been a number of incidents were oaps have been prevented from travelling onwards on the same vehicle when trying that trick on!

 

[Bus Guru]

The all Scotland scheme exceeded its budget of £202M during the thirteenth 4 weekly payment so operators lost a large part of that payment so 24/7 isn't viable

 

[Samuel88]

That is not permitted. There have been a number of incidents were oaps have been prevented from travelling onwards on the same vehicle when trying that trick on!

If when boarding, you tell the driver that you are buying a single to the first bus stop where your pass is valid instead of 'trying it on' and not telling them then in my experience they are almost certain to allow you to travel!

 

[Typhoon]

If when boarding, you tell the driver that you are buying a single to the first bus stop where your pass is valid instead of 'trying it on' and not telling them then in my experience they are almost certain to allow you to travel!

I would agree, I was surprised at post #83. I used to sometimes travel on an hourly service where 4 or 5 pensioners would buy a single to a village just up the road where it was pretty certain others would get on (time now past 09:30), they would troop up to the front and swipe their cards, the drivers expected it, the joining passengers expected it so waited before getting on. This was one of the large operators so it wasn't some private arrangement.

Surely you could buy a ticket to the nearest place where you know passengers would be waiting, get off, go to the back of the queue and get on again?

 

[Samuel88]

I would agree, I was surprised at post #83. I used to sometimes travel on an hourly service where 4 or 5 pensioners would buy a single to a village just up the road where it was pretty certain others would get on (time now past 09:30), they would troop up to the front and swipe their cards, the drivers expected it, the joining passengers expected it so waited before getting on. This was one of the large operators so it wasn't some private arrangement.

Surely you could buy a ticket to the nearest place where you know passengers would be waiting, get off, go to the back of the queue and get on again?

Indeed, in fact on several occasions on asking if my pass was valid I've been told by the driver to buy a single to the first stop after 9:30 and then swipe my pass.

 

[Deerfold]

That is not permitted. There have been a number of incidents were oaps have been prevented from travelling onwards on the same vehicle when trying that trick on!

Whyever not? I've bought a bus ticket before for part of a route and shown a (non-free) pass valid from 0930.

 

[Typhoon]

Indeed, in fact on several occasions on asking if my pass was valid I've been told by the driver to buy a single to the first stop after 9:30 and then swipe my pass.

What seems to irritate drivers is when card holders get on before 09:30 and then plead/ argue to be allowed to travel without payment. If you are honest with them, they will be fair with you.

 

[PeterC]

What tendering process?

The post that you responded to referred to a specific council suported service that crossed the county boundary.