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Should the conditions of carriage of public transport operators be modified to exclude non essential travel

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matt_world2004

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Given the current crisis should the conditions of carriage of public transport operators be modified to reflect the governments advise on non essential travel on public transport?

A condition in the contract could state something similar to " During National and local emergencies travel would only be permitted in line with legal restrictions and government advice. "

This would give the BTP more powers to stop non essential travel even if the travel itself isnt expressly illegal.
 
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westv

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Is there actually much "non essential" travel to make this worth the effort?
 

nedchester

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No because who decides what is or is not essential? We've already had chief police officers trying to decide what shopping is essential or not.
 

carlberry

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Surely the conditions of carriage are in addition to national law. If national law prohibits certain travel then BTP would be able to enforce it, if it mearly advises then BTP can offer advice but cant enforce.
 

Bantamzen

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Given the current crisis should the conditions of carriage of public transport operators be modified to reflect the governments advise on non essential travel on public transport?

A condition in the contract could state something similar to " During National and local emergencies travel would only be permitted in line with legal restrictions and government advice. "

This would give the BTP more powers to stop non essential travel even if the travel itself isnt expressly illegal.

Absolutely not, what next being made to ask for permission from the government to travel? I don't know how many times it needs saying but social distancing is a temporary measure that will be lifted as part of the government's strategy. We don't need draconian laws that might be difficult to remove in future.
 

matt_world2004

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Absolutely not, what next being made to ask for permission from the government to travel? I don't know how many times it needs saying but social distancing is a temporary measure that will be lifted as part of the government's strategy. We don't need draconian laws that might be difficult to remove in future.
Its easier to modify a conditions of carriage than it is a law. Draconian laws such as prohibiting standing on the left side of the escalator, not letting people off the train first and not queuing in an orderly manner are already in the conditions of carriage for some operators.
 

yorkie

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No because who decides what is or is not essential? We've already had chief police officers trying to decide what shopping is essential or not.
The term "essential" is a misnomer really; it's a question of what is permitted under the legislation.

If travel is lawful the police have no rights to deny travel; police did get into hot water over shopping and hopefully lessons have been learnt.

Here is the list of what travel is permitted:


Restrictions on movement

6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave [F1or be outside of] the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—

( a)to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person, F2... including from any business listed in Part 3 of Schedule 2;

[F3(aa)to obtain money from or deposit money with any business listed in paragraphs 33 or 34 of Schedule 2;]

[F4(ab)to collect goods which have been ordered from a business in any way permitted under regulation 5(1)(a);]

[F5(b)to take exercise—

(i)alone,

(ii)with one or more members of their household, or

(iii)with one member of another household;]

[F6(ba)to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing—

(i)alone,

(ii)with one or more members of their household, or

(iii)with one member of another household;]

(c)to seek medical assistance, including to access any of the services referred to in paragraph 37 or 38 of Schedule 2;

(d)to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 F7, to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;

(e)to donate blood;

(f)to F8... work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living;

(g)to attend a funeral of—

(i)a member of the person's household,

(ii)a close family member, or

(iii)if no-one within sub-paragraphs (i) or (ii) are attending, a friend;

[F9(ga)to visit a burial ground or garden of remembrance, to pay respects to a member of the person’s household, a family member or friend;]

(h)to fulfil a legal obligation, including attending court or satisfying bail conditions, or to participate in legal proceedings;

(i)to access critical public services, including—

(i)childcare or educational facilities (where these are still available to a child in relation to whom that person is the parent, or has parental responsibility for, or care of the child);

(ii)social services;

(iii)services provided by the [F10Department for Work] and Pensions;

(iv)services provided to victims (such as victims of crime);

(j)in relation to children who do not live in the same household as their parents, or one of their parents, to continue existing arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and children, and for the purposes of this paragraph, “parent” includes a person who is not a parent of the child, but who has parental responsibility for, or who has care of, the child;

(k)in the case of a minister of religion or worship leader, to go to their place of worship;

[F11(l)to undertake any of the following activities in connection with the purchase, sale, letting or rental of a residential property—

(i)visiting estate or letting agents, developer sales offices or show homes;

(ii)viewing residential properties to look for a property to buy or rent;

(iii)preparing a residential property to move in;

(iv)moving home;

(v)visiting a residential property to undertake any activities required for the rental or sale of that property;]

(m)to avoid injury or illness or to escape a risk of harm.

[F12(n)to use a waste or recycling centre.]

(3) For the purposes of paragraph (1), the place where a person is living includes the premises where they live together with any garden, yard, passage, stair, garage, outhouse or other appurtenance of such premises.

(4) Paragraph (1) does not apply to any person who is homeless.

[F13(5) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(ba), “public open space” includes—

(a)land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members of the public;

(b)land which is “open country” as defined in section 59(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949, as read with section 16 of the Countryside Act 1968;

(c)land which is “access land” for the purposes of Part 1 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (see section 1(1) of that Act).]

There is no need to modify the NRCoT.

Its easier to modify a conditions of carriage than it is a law...
The law has already been modified; I have quoted it above.
This would give the BTP more powers to stop non essential travel even if the travel itself isnt expressly illegal.
This is nonsense; if the travel is lawful then it's lawful, end of story.

If travel is unlawful it does not need any reference to the NRCoT!
 
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carlberry

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Its easier to modify a conditions of carriage than it is a law. Draconian laws such as prohibiting standing on the left side of the escalator, not letting people off the train first and not queuing in an orderly manner are already in the conditions of carriage for some operators.
However BTP shouldn't be involved with dealing with such things.
 

yorksrob

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What is considered "essential" travel can be expected to evolve over the duration of the crisis anyway, so it would be pointless to try and codify it.
 

yorkie

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However BTP shouldn't be involved with dealing with such things.
NRCoT is a contract. The BTP are there to enforce the legislation. The legislation does not require the contract to be amended to enforce the legislation. I think that @matt_world has misunderstood how contract law and legislation works and misunderstood the role of the BTP.
What is considered "essential" travel can be expected to evolve over the duration of the crisis anyway, so it would be pointless to try and codify it.
Yes this is true; the list of travel that is permitted by the the legislation has already been amended and will no doubt be amended again (and perhaps multiple times, and the next relaxation is likely to be as soon as 1st June).
 

CaptainHaddock

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Given the current crisis should the conditions of carriage of public transport operators be modified to reflect the governments advise on non essential travel on public transport?

A condition in the contract could state something similar to " During National and local emergencies travel would only be permitted in line with legal restrictions and government advice. "

This would give the BTP more powers to stop non essential travel even if the travel itself isnt expressly illegal.

Why are you so desperate to have your freedom, and that of other people, restricted?
 

Huntergreed

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To answer the initial question, it certainly could be done, but as we’re trying to now unlock the economy and get things back to at least some degree of normality, it wouldn’t be necessary to impose further restrictions on transport at present which, as usage is so low, isn’t really an area of concern at present, the concern is more about how we manage use as we start to lift restrictions to prevent unmanageable crowding as was common before.
 
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