Should the young shield?

[Scotrail12]

According to former Strictly Come Dancing professional and Reality TV veteran, James Jordan, it should be the young who are to shield and the older folks (who are more "sensible) should be allowed in society.

Although the older you are the more likely you are to get COVID-19, and they are now saying over 50’s should shield I believe it’s the younger generation that aren’t taking it serious so let’s make them shield and let the sensible people crack on. All they wanna do is party

This annoys me on so many levels. He seems thick as mince, clearly not much of an understanding of the purpose of shielding and just an overall ageist sentiment (not the first anti-youth thing he's posted). Also wouldn't be any good for the economy. The more I think about it the more it angers me.

Thoughts? Would this be effective or is he talking nonsense?

FWIW, I think over 50 is a bit extreme, some in their 50's are in decent shape, it's more the over 65's and particularly over 70's that I would worry about.

 

[Richard Scott]

No, definitely not. What a daft statement. I work with teenagers and they've suffered enough. It's a known fact that the male brain doesn't perceive danger until around 14-15 years old anyway and even then may not take much notice. If youngsters are deemed to be a problem then responsible adults must ensure they are not allowed to meet up with those shielding as, to be honest, it doesn't matter how much you tell someone of that age the idea of risk is not a high priority unlike those of us who are older. I've seen teenagers together and they just don't get social distancing, if you remind them they'll do it but it's just not a priority. I don't think they're being difficult it is how they are.

 

[Scotrail12]

What’s worrying is that a fair few on Twitter seem to be agreeing with Mr. Jordan’s statement.

 

[Richard Scott]

What’s worrying is that a fair few on Twitter seem to be agreeing with Mr. Jordan’s statement.

That is extremely worrying, obviously those who have no respect for the younger generation. Expect they want youngsters to give them their utmost respect though!

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, but there needs to be strong enforcement of distancing measures among twentysomethings who are presently largely ignoring them. For instance, fines need to be imposed immediately, not after asking people to disperse. The latter simply isn't a deterrent. We are a laughably light touch on the world stage here - £500 straight away as soon as a Police Officer saw non-compliance would concentrate minds.

Furthermore parents need to be penalised if groups of under 18s are discovered from different households without appropriate distancing.

Similarly, £1000 for any business not ensuring 2m or 1m+ among staff, plus £500 for each individual involved, again immediately as soon as a Police Officer sees the offence (bodycams could be used for evidence).

We don't need additional measures at the moment - we need people to start complying with them properly. Maybe "project fear" wasn't that bad?

 

[Richard Scott]

No, but there needs to be strong enforcement of distancing measures among twentysomethings who are presently largely ignoring them. For instance, fines need to be imposed immediately, not after asking people to disperse. The latter simply isn't a deterrent. We are a laughably light touch on the world stage here - £500 straight away as soon as a Police Officer saw non-compliance would concentrate minds.

Furthermore parents need to be penalised if groups of under 18s are discovered from different households without appropriate distancing.

We don't need additional measures at the moment - we need people to start complying with them properly.

Glad you're not in charge. Under 18s need to socialise and afraid it's very hard to get them to distance. To be honest I don't think they're causing much of an issue. I know trot out the old well they may infect their frail grandparents, easy they don't get close to them. I'm afraid teenagers need to be in a peer group, you had your childhood allow them theirs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Glad you're not in charge. Under 18s need to socialise and afraid it's very hard to get them to distance. To be honest I don't think they're causing much of an issue. I know trot out the old well they may infect their frail grandparents, easy they don't get close to them. I'm afraid teenagers need to be in a peer group, you had your childhood allow them theirs.

This is a special situation requiring special measures. They can socialise - just sit 2m apart (or stick a mask on and 1m). They need to understand the consequences of their actions on others.

 

[Domh245]

What with the economic fallout from the pandemic that we shall have to pay for, as well as the irreversible damage to the environment and climate, disruption to education and/or early years of careers, mental health issues, massively inflated house prices, etc, this would barely be another drop in the ocean of muck that young people are being chucked into...

 

[Bletchleyite]

What with the economic fallout from the pandemic that we shall have to pay for, as well as the irreversible damage to the environment and climate, disruption to education and/or early years of careers, mental health issues, massively inflated house prices, etc, this would barely be another drop in the ocean of muck that young people are being chucked into...

Or they could come out of it quicker if they play along! There's a valuable life lesson there.

 

[Richard Scott]

This is a special situation requiring special measures. They can socialise - just sit 2m apart (or stick a mask on and 1m). They need to understand the consequences of their actions on others.

You have no idea about teenagers do you? They don't get social distancing - I worked with some really well behaved co-operative 14/15 year olds and they genuinely kept forgetting. It's not fair on them all of this, they're losing their childhood, their education, their chance to prove themselves in exams. How much more pressure do you want to put on them. Start tipping a few over the edge so some parents have to suffer the loss of their child as that's what's happening.

 

[AdamWW]

Glad you're not in charge. Under 18s need to socialise and afraid it's very hard to get them to distance. To be honest I don't think they're causing much of an issue. I know trot out the old well they may infect their frail grandparents, easy they don't get close to them. I'm afraid teenagers need to be in a peer group, you had your childhood allow them theirs.

It's not a question of them infecting grandparents directly....it's the effect on transmission on having a large part of the population abandoning social distancing.

The government is pretty clearly trying to prevent infections rising for now, whether you think it's the right approach or not.

So to go back to a previous controversy....maybe we have a choice....let teenagers ignore the rules, or shut the pubs to reduce other paths for transmission to compensate (said partly togue in cheek).

 

[Bletchleyite]

You have no idea about teenagers do you? They don't get social distancing - I worked with some really well behaved co-operative 14/15 year olds and they genuinely kept forgetting. It's not fair on them all of this, they're losing their childhood, their education, their chance to prove themselves in exams. How much more pressure do you want to put on them. Start tipping a few over the edge so some parents have to suffer the loss of their child as that's what's happening.

Well, the death of their parents and/or grandparents due to their own gross negligence would certainly affect their mental health, yes.

They need to take it seriously. Crikey, how do people think they coped during an actual war? This is easy in comparison. We are really not asking very much.

So to go back to a previous controversy....maybe we have a choice....let teenagers ignore the rules, or shut the pubs to reduce other paths for transmission to compensate (said partly togue in cheek).

Yes, this. I'd rather see us hammer down hard on non-compliance to existing laws and guidelines (just make all the guidelines law, let's not mess about, and make the fines zero-tolerance - if you are seen not complying, you are fined) than have to close more things or tighten anything.

Or, dare I say, bring back project fear. It did actually work, incredibly well, far better than PHE expected.

 

[Richard Scott]

Well, the death of their parents and/or grandparents due to their own gross negligence would certainly affect their mental health, yes.

They need to take it seriously. Crikey, how do people think they coped during an actual war? This is easy in comparison. We are really not asking very much.

So do you, how old do you think their parents are? The under 18s have suffered enough with all of this. Coping in a war - what with our current flowers, we'd have all surrendered by now. You are asking an awful lot of them. I work with teenagers and will defend them to the hilt on this one, I'm fed up with the we're not asking much of them, oh it's a life lesson. Well some of them have had more issues in past 4 months than probably most people on here had in their entire childhood. Cut them some slack even if it means adults have to do some give and take over this. Don't forget they'll be paying your pension!

 

[Domh245]

Or they could come out of it quicker if they play along! There's a valuable life lesson there.

I fear your experience with this unmasked group of 20-something lads you keep rabbiting on about has given you some sort of bizarre mental image of all young people going around coughing on each other and deliberately being obstructive throughout this pandemic as if we want to drag this on. Needless to say that there are plenty of people being deliberately obstructive and not 'playing along' amongst all age groups, and equally plenty (a majority?) of young people who are playing by the rules.

You'd do well to try and come across as harsh against people of all ages who are breaking the rules, rather than tarring a whole age group with one brush - particularly when said age group will arguably be the most affected by the measures put in place with minimal personal gain for them.

 

[MikeWM]

Or they could come out of it quicker if they play along! There's a valuable life lesson there.

We've all 'played along' for 4 and a half months. All we got in return was social distancing, masks and arbitrary local lockdowns. That narrative no longer works.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You are asking an awful lot of them

All I'm asking them to do is to sit 2m apart while chatting to their mates, or to pull on a mask and make it 1m. That's not at all hard.

I fear your experience with this unmasked group of 20-something lads you keep rabbiting on about has given you some sort of bizarre mental image of all young people going around coughing on each other and deliberately being obstructive throughout this pandemic as if we want to drag this on. Needless to say that there are plenty of people being deliberately obstructive and not 'playing along' amongst all age groups, and equally plenty (a majority?) of young people who are playing by the rules.

You'd do well to try and come across as harsh against people of all ages who are breaking the rules, rather than tarring a whole age group with one brush - particularly when said age group will arguably be the most affected by the measures put in place with minimal personal gain for them.

I have seen lots of groups of young adults about the place (as I normally do), I have not yet seen such a group distancing. Above that age group people seem to be mostly in family groups at the moment, at least around here. That group is simply an example.

 

[Richard Scott]

All I'm asking them to do is to sit 2m apart while chatting to their mates, or to pull on a mask and make it 1m. That's not at all hard.

I've already said they don't get social distancing, they're not doing it deliberately. Cut them some slack, chances are non of them have it and if they do well so be it. It's life, it comes with risks and those risks may affect other people. I'm fed up with adults who think teenagers are demons, majority I've worked with are great individuals who are polite, caring people and wouldn't do anything deliberately. It's just at their age being close to your mates is a natural thing as is playing games, rough and tumble etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've already said they don't get social distancing, they're not doing it deliberately. Cut them some slack, chances are non of them have it and if they do well so be it. It's life, it comes with risks and those risks may affect other people. I'm fed up with adults who think teenagers are demons, majority I've worked with are great individuals who are polite, caring people and wouldn't do anything deliberately. It's just at their age being close to your mates is a natural thing as is playing games, rough and tumble etc.

I'm involved in Scouting so I clearly don't think teenagers are demons. Indeed, I think they're very capable and very intelligent, by and large - including capable of understanding that this situation is very unusual and very special and requires very unusual and very special actions, provided those adults they trust explain properly to them what's needed and why, and subtly nudge them the right way to comply.

It's not going to be forever, it's going to be maybe a year or two out of the 70+ years they have ahead of them. In some ways I feel more for older people who will be having a fairly large chunk of the short time they have left mucked up.

 

[Richard Scott]

I'm involved in Scouting so I clearly don't think teenagers are demons. Indeed, I think they're very capable and very intelligent, by and large - including capable of understanding that this situation is very unusual and very special and requires very unusual and very special actions, provided those adults they trust explain properly to them what's needed and why, and subtly nudge them the right way to comply.

It's not going to be forever, it's going to be maybe a year or two out of the 70+ years they have ahead of them. In some ways I feel more for older people who will be having a fairly large chunk of the short time they have left mucked up.

It's a year or two out of their very important childhood - sorry it's not acceptable. On the last point that's why I think older people should be allowed to make up their own mind and why I'd go for voluntary shielding rather than lockdown.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a year or two out of their very important childhood - sorry it's not acceptable.

Afraid we'll have to agree to disagree - it's just too important.

 

[adc82140]

So destroying the hopes and aspirations of an entire generation is fine then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So destroying the hopes and aspirations of an entire generation is fine then?

It's going to do nothing of the sort. Young people have faced difficulties before. We just need to help them get back up again.

 

[Richard Scott]

It's going to do nothing of the sort. Young people have faced difficulties before. We just need to help them get back up again.

You're proposing to flush a couple of years of their childhood away, you'll never replace that. I'm afraid you seem to think this virus is the only thing that matters, it isn't.

 

[Scrotnig]

So destroying the hopes and aspirations of an entire generation is fine then?

Well it appears that the government's stance is, yes it is, because it's not the deadly killer virus.

 

[AdamWW]

Well it appears that the government's stance is, yes it is, because it's not the deadly killer virus.

I think the way the government is acting shows that they are not focussing blindly on the impact of cononavirus to the exclusion of everything else or they would still be telling everyone to stay in their homes and not, for example, telling people to go back to work even if they could work at home.

Certainly if you look at the scientific advice they are getting, it is being made very clear that just about everything that can be done to reduce the impact of coronavirus brings its own problems.

That doesn't mean that everyone is going to think that they are making the right decisions.

 

[DB]

I think the way the government is acting shows that they are not focussing blindly on the impact of cononavirus to the exclusion of everything else or they would still be telling everyone to stay in their homes and not, for example, telling people to go back to work even if they could work at home.

The point is they are still effectively implying that elimination of the virus is the aim. This is akin to trying to stop the tide coming in, and putting in place measures like they have will just prolong the situation and lead to ever more problems in health, society and the economy.

 

[DB]

It's going to do nothing of the sort. Young people have faced difficulties before. We just need to help them get back up again.

Going to be difficult to help them in a trashed economy though, isn't it!

 

[Yew]

No, but there needs to be strong enforcement of distancing measures among twentysomethings who are presently largely ignoring them. For instance, fines need to be imposed immediately, not after asking people to disperse. The latter simply isn't a deterrent. We are a laughably light touch on the world stage here - £500 straight away as soon as a Police Officer saw non-compliance would concentrate minds.

And the government would fall within a month.

 

[Scrotnig]

No, but there needs to be strong enforcement of distancing measures among twentysomethings who are presently largely ignoring them. For instance, fines need to be imposed immediately, not after asking people to disperse. The latter simply isn't a deterrent. We are a laughably light touch on the world stage here - £500 straight away as soon as a Police Officer saw non-compliance would concentrate minds.

Furthermore parents need to be penalised if groups of under 18s are discovered from different households without appropriate distancing.

Similarly, £1000 for any business not ensuring 2m or 1m+ among staff, plus £500 for each individual involved, again immediately as soon as a Police Officer sees the offence (bodycams could be used for evidence).

We don't need additional measures at the moment - we need people to start complying with them properly. Maybe "project fear" wasn't that bad?

And you still claim you don't have authoritarian tendencies?

 

[Ianno87]

And the government would fall within a month.

I'm enjoying the quaint olde-worlde notion that a 20-something of today has any actual ability to pay £500 on the spot.