Next logical step would be "You are welcome to travel with us for any reason, and you must wear a face covering. However, we cannot guarantee social distancing at all times, and please respect social distancing where it is possible".
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Should train companies be allowed to say "essential travel only" now Government allows travel to undertake activities permitted in the guidance?
- Thread starter yorksrob
- Start date
- Status
Next logical step would be "You are welcome to travel with us for any reason, and you must wear a face covering. However, we cannot guarantee social distancing at all times, and please respect social distancing where it is possible".
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
The recent letter from the TSSA union quoted on another thread would lead me to a similar suspicion.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think that's for "level 2", to be honest. What we need now is to remove is this ridiculous situation of people who do not own cars (or who want to make a journey for which car is not viable, for instance into central London) being basically told they can't unless they are a "key worker". Those who can drive should carry on doing so - we don't need overcrowding now.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Ah, yes, I forgot them - they should be added to the RMT as trouble makers
What has ASLEF said? That said, drivers are in a better position as their job is pretty much the definition of social distancing - never mind the Blea Moor signaller!
Of course given that guards are basically being told to hide in the cab and only do the safety/operational part of the role by most TOCs, why do they even care[1]? OK, there's the messroom issue, but they can always find somewhere different to sit for their butties and flask of tea.
[1] On units where doors can't be done from the cab, at the moment it wouldn't be hard to rope off a vestibule for them. Even on something like a 195 there are only a few seats the "wrong side" of such a barricade.
EMR's wordings have subtly softened since Wednesday, the latest pinned Facebook post is attached.
Text says:
"Don't forget - if you use our service you must wear a face covering to keep yourself and others safe. We want to see you back on our trains when things return to normal, but for now only travel with us if you have no other way to travel."
Text says:
"Don't forget - if you use our service you must wear a face covering to keep yourself and others safe. We want to see you back on our trains when things return to normal, but for now only travel with us if you have no other way to travel."
Yes, that sounds altogether more appropriate.
Agreed - Scotrail had a Tweet yesterday or day before to effect of "we want to see you all again soon".
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
"Please keep one seat free" is also a softening - the previous one was to leave 2 rows empty, wasn't it? Most people are quite happy not to share a double seat with people they're not travelling with, and might in the circumstances see it as a good marketing move!
I wonder has RDG done something? If so that's positive - but when are Northern going to pack it in?
I equally wonder, as this seems only just to have happened, if they were waiting to see if mask compliance was high enough before loosening the message? (Mask compliance is high, as the thread on that subject confirms).
Skymonster
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Feb 2012
- Messages
- 1,743
But if anyone tries to buy a ticket on the EMR website, they are still required to tick a box to confirm "My travel is necessary because I am a key worker, or a worker not able to work from home" which pops up along with instructions not to go further if the boxes are not ticked. Yes, of course people can lie or buy from another site, but the message is extremely offputting to those who are not fully conversant with the current guidelines.
Scotrail also have similar on homepage , they also took down timetables, just journey planner.
It's also off-putting for disabled people who can't drive. I still have friends to visit that are further than 5 miles away.
They're private companies who are backed by the government. Both would obviously rather nobody was using the railway. I don't have to make any excuses - I don't care. But I'm trying to bring out the contradictions in your complaints. You don't have to see them, but that doesn't mean they ain't there.
I have very little but criticism for the entire function of government, and only criticism the part which manages the railway. That doesn't mean that you can either have your way or that your arguments are coherent.
They aren't really in the business of customer service though are they? On the whole, the industry hasn't really achieved good customer service because they didn't need to and nobody has made them. The virus hasn't yet changed that.
Last edited:
When asked about transport today, Jason Leitch national clinical director of Scotland, said that the trains and buses were for 'key workers' and that in general this has been complied too.
It's one thing the TOC's saying this, but when government officials are saying 'key workers only' it's much more worrying.
It's one thing the TOC's saying this, but when government officials are saying 'key workers only' it's much more worrying.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
To be fair, Scotland is asking people to stay within 5 miles of home for leisure, which doesn't really require the use of any mode of transport as pretty much anyone, those with disabilities aside, can walk or cycle that.
It's England where the situation is rather off, because you're allowed to go where you like by car (and as I said I've been taking full advantage of this myself, with over £500 spent on diesel in the last 3 weeks or so which might otherwise have gone on walk-up train fares) but if you don't own a car you're stuck in the days before railways were invented.
There's nothing incoherant in arguing that the railway industry's messaging should be consistent with the government guidance on what citizens are allowed to do at this stage of the epidemic. I defy you to argue otherwise.
Not true at all. We all have the same freedoms. The Government guidance just asks that other modes are considered before taking public transport.
I've linked to this in many threads; here is the current guidance:
People with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19
Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19, or a positive test result for COVID-19.
I do not have a car, never have, never will. I have the same freedoms as anyone who does own a car, and I will always have the same freedoms.
So you're saying people who don't own a car are still allowed to use public transport, and the "essential workers only" line is nonsense?Not true at all. We all have the same freedoms. The Government guidance just asks that other modes are considered before taking public transport.
I've linked to this in many threads; here is the current guidance:
People with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19
Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19, or a positive test result for COVID-19.www.gov.uk
I do not have a car, never have, never will. I have the same freedoms as anyone who does own a car, and I will always have the same freedoms.
Absolutely; see the link in my post.
Also several people have reported that many TOCs have abolished this message already; it's just some that are either holding on a bit longer or have not updated their websites etc.
Thats a much better form of wording but still not as liberal as other operators in Europe where they are actually wanting people to travel by train again e.g. in Switzerland:
Coronavirus: removal of the mask requirement on public transport
As of 1 April 2022, the requirement to wear a mask on public transport will no longer apply. SBB would like to thank customers who complied with this requirement.
news.sbb.ch
I think " only travel with us if you have no other way to travel" is the best we can hope for under the current social distancing arrangements (which brings us back round to: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ic-transport-thus-increasing-capacity.205564/ 
)
My view is that no-one should be put off making a journey, but there is no problem with asking people to make that journey by other means of transport, if it is possible for them to do so.
)My view is that no-one should be put off making a journey, but there is no problem with asking people to make that journey by other means of transport, if it is possible for them to do so.
Indeed. That's good to hear TOCs are changing their message. I made a short journey with ScotRail to meet a friend and they were announcing "We are operating a service for essential journeys only, do not use our services to make leisure journeys" but that was a few weeks ago so things could have changed since then.I think " only travel with us if you have no other way to travel" is the best we can hope for under the current social distancing arrangements (which brings us back round to: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ic-transport-thus-increasing-capacity.205564/
My view is that no-one should be put off making a journey, but there is no problem with asking people to make that journey by other means of transport, if it is possible for them to do so.
The messages as they stood previously and still do at some operations, were not unlawful, and reflect an opinion on government policy. This is precisely the same thing as what you're advocating strongly: your opinion about government policy and an action which is lawful.
You can no more argue with their policy based on the words on the signs or the website than the staff at stations could argue with your journey going by the items in your shopping bags. Except on a political level which we've just gone around in circles discussing three times and you've decided you have a very different view to most people about the railway - which isn't surprising because you already did before the pandemic.
Regardless of what is lawful or not, do you think the message given out by the railway industry should reflect what is allowed in the Government guidelines, or do you think that it shouldn't ?
Don't take any notice of them, ignore them and enjoy your journey.
As I've explained countless times, it's up to the company, and the government in cases where they're making contractual input, to come up with something which complies with the law. That's it. As far as I can see there hasn't been any claim they've not done so.
NorthWestRover
Established Member
- Joined
- 24 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 1,466
Not only are Northern not changing their message, they are arguing with people on Twitter and claiming it is only implementing government policy. I am going to St Anne's tomorrow. I'll see how it feels.
ScotRail were telling people that they provide a service for essential journeys only and that leisure travel is not permitted. That's inconsistent with the Scotish governments website which said travel outwith a 5 mile radius is allowed to see family or friends. There will be people who don't own a car that will think they're not allowed to travel when in reality they are.
If I said to my next door neighbour that under the COVID-19 guidance, she wasn't allowed to watch ITV because I was sick of hearing X-Factor through the wall, even though I knew that not to be the case, I wouldn't be breaking any law. However, I would be misinforming her, and it would be wrong of me to do so. However, you seem to be arguing that it is not wrong for the rail industry to give out misinformation for their own convenience.
However, if that's what you think, there's not much more to be said.
I think we're done here. Everyone has had more than enough opportunty to express their point of view and I don't think there's anything constructive left to be added to the topic at hand.
I would like to remind all members of the Forum Rules in particular the section relating to Respectful. Particularly during the current times I think we would do each all a favour if we kept in mind those requirements are endeavoured to speak nicely to each other.
I would like to remind all members of the Forum Rules in particular the section relating to Respectful. Particularly during the current times I think we would do each all a favour if we kept in mind those requirements are endeavoured to speak nicely to each other.
- Status