Shrewsbury station "improvements"

[Proud Salopian]

The waiting room (by the cafe) and customer information point are to be swapped around at Shrewsbury.

Sounds a good idea, BUT... the plans...

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk..._01075_LBC-PLATFORM_LEVEL_VISUALS-1868663.pdf

Looks dreadful IMO. "Done on the cheap."

 

[MidnightFlyer]

'Document Unavailable'

What were the basic outlines?

 

[swt_passenger]

'Document Unavailable'

That's fairly typical in my experience - most planning websites seem to use session based URLs, it's best to just mention the application number to allow people to look it up from the relevant planning search system...

 

[Proud Salopian]

'Document Unavailable'

What were the basic outlines?

Ah, apologies. Stupid local authority making things as hard as possible for the public to view planning documents...

To view the planning application, go here and search for application reference: 13/01075/LBC

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk/online-applications
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Now it's "Service Temporarily Unavailable". I give up.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Could well be to do with the vast numbers of people now checking to see what the new waiting room looks like! Seriously though, thanks for the links. I'll check it out later when it's calmed down.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was the need for this project really justified ?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Was the need for this project really justified ?

Reversing them would mean the customer assistance point would be visible to folk coming up the staircase from the subway/booking office.

There's some real problems for those not in the know at Shrewsbury take this afternoon Cambrian trains are running through to Crewe due to engineering work in West Midlands. However Unit Stop sign on Platform 4B is two carriage lengths short of platform end due to sighting for repeater banner- this means that only a 2 car unit can sit on 4b before the rear of unit/trains occupies platform space next to 4a signs. 3 car 175's and 4 car 158 formations all occupy 4b & 4a - stacks of confused passengers this afternoon as 1330 ex Aberystwyth (4 car 158) was in 4b & 4a ahead of 1320 ex Cdf to Holyhead which was suppose to be 4a.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To view the planning application, go here and search for application reference: 13/01075/LBC

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk/online-applications
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I had no trouble in accessing this when I tried somewhat later than you did.
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Reversing them would mean the customer assistance point would be visible to folk coming up the staircase from the subway/booking office. There's some real problems for those not in the know at Shrewsbury

I do now appreciate what you say, as I viewed that matter with fifty years experience of using Shrewsbury station where matters have made one inured to such a difficulty as you have stated. Familiarity breeds contempt et al..

 

[Proud Salopian]

I had no trouble in accessing this when I tried somewhat later than you did.

What do you think of the plans? I think it's going to look very out-of-place at Shrewsbury.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What do you think of the plans? I think it's going to look very out-of-place at Shrewsbury.

My view would totally concur with what you have stated. It appears the term "sympathetic refurbishments" has not been sufficiently of worth to be considered.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What do you think of the plans? I think it's going to look very out-of-place at Shrewsbury.

They have the same visual style as the new facilities at Chester.
Internally they may work fine, but externally they look awful.
Somebody must think lower-case coppery titles are trendy - I just think they are unreadable.
And everything has to have a daub of Arriva green.

 

[Michael.Y]

So - if I understand this correctly - anything and anyone coming up in the lift - in particular catering, luggage, cleaning and portering trolleys - would have to pass through the waiting area to egress onto the platforms?

Also I notice that the plans include keeping the current numbering scheme. Why not go the whole hog and renumber?

 

[Proud Salopian]

So - if I understand this correctly - anything and anyone coming up in the lift - in particular catering, luggage, cleaning and portering trolleys - would have to pass through the waiting area to egress onto the platforms?

Seems like it.

Also I notice that the plans include keeping the current numbering scheme. Why not go the whole hog and renumber?

Sacrilege!

 

[TheEdge]

Also I notice that the plans include keeping the current numbering scheme. Why not go the whole hog and renumber?

Shrewsbury? Having logical and sensible platform numbers? Never!

 

[Proud Salopian]

They're not illogical - they're numbered 1 to 7 in a precise track-by-track order from west (Castle side) to east (Dana side). It's just that most people pop up from the underpass and find themselves confronted with platforms 4 and 7. No matter how you'd re-number, the platforms will always be in three distinct locations from the passenger's point of view: the two through platforms (4 & 7), the two bay platforms (5 & 6) and the platform(s) by the old station buildings ((1, 2 &) 3); with no obvious way to link between them (using numbers).

[Saying that: I suppose one 'better' system would be to number 7 as 1, 4 as 2, 5 & 6 as 3 & 4, and 3 as 5. And then later 1 & 2 could become 6 & 7.]

 

[lancastrian]

The waiting room (by the cafe) and customer information point are to be swapped around at Shrewsbury.

Sounds a good idea, BUT... the plans...

http://planningpa.shropshire.gov.uk..._01075_LBC-PLATFORM_LEVEL_VISUALS-1868663.pdf

Looks dreadful IMO. "Done on the cheap."

In my experience, "improvements" equals "reduction" of service.

 

[Michael.Y]

Apart from the fact that Platforms 1 and 2 have no track, number boards, seats, are fenced off....

 

[TheEdge]

They're not illogical - they're numbered 1 to 7 in a precise track-by-track order from west (Castle side) to east (Dana side). It's just that most people pop up from the underpass and find themselves confronted with platforms 4 and 7. No matter how you'd re-number, the platforms will always be in three distinct locations from the passenger's point of view: the two through platforms (4 & 7), the two bay platforms (5 & 6) and the platform(s) by the old station buildings ((1, 2 &) 3); with no obvious way to link between them (using numbers).

[Saying that: I suppose one 'better' system would be to number 7 as 1, 4 as 2, 5 & 6 as 3 & 4, and 3 as 5. And then later 1 & 2 could become 6 & 7.]

I suppose, but it is the 3 to 7 jump which makes it look odd!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was there not some platform renumbering carried out during the new platform provision upgrading and infrastructural works that were carried out recently at Stalybridge railway station, which is one that has been open since 1845.

 

[Proud Salopian]

I suppose, but it is the 3 to 7 jump which makes it look odd!

What do you mean? 3 is on the other side of the three tracks to 4; the next platform across the station... that's the standard system of platform numbering working there. Or did you mean the "4 to 7 jump"? Which surely isn't that remarkable - plenty of stations with bay platforms at one end/both ends have a numbering system that then results in non-consecutive numbered platforms neighbouring each other.

There is no erratic nature to the present numbering - it's actually very logical. Or at least to me it is...

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Apart from the fact that Platforms 1 and 2 have no track, number boards, seats, are fenced off....

And? How does that affect a passenger wondering where, say, platform 5 is?

If you were to renumber the platforms in order to remove the former 1 and 2 platforms from the numbering system then you would either start with the present platform 3 becoming platform 1, or the present platform 7 becoming platform 1. But in any case you'd still have the problem of the station having three distinct platform locations: the two main through platforms, the two bays and the present platform 3.

 

[Michael.Y]

And? How does that affect a passenger wondering where, say, platform 5 is?

It doesn't really... and it's not important, but I like things being neat. Hence why the M23 is a bit of an anathema to me. And don't even get me started on football team numbering.

Simple renumbering going W-E would be:

3 > 1
4 > 2
7 > 3
5 > 4
6 > 5

 

[Rhydgaled]

The present waiting room on the Shrewsbury main island platform is not nearly big enough. I wonder if using platform 3 more often (which has its own waiting room by the looks of it), and perhaps putting track back in what I assume are platforms 1&2, would solve this by spreading out the passengers.

One article I've read online claims that the proposed new waiting room is bigger, from the plans it looks to have the same number of seats at best, with the addition of cold draughts whenever anyone uses the lift. The slate finish of the proposed new waiting room and information point doesn't seem at all in-keeping with the rest of the listed station, letter of objection time again I think.

 

[transmanche]

The present waiting room on the Shrewsbury main island platform is not nearly big enough. I wonder if using platform 3 more often (which has its own waiting room by the looks of it), and perhaps putting track back in what I assume are platforms 1&2, would solve this by spreading out the passengers.

The problem with that is, it's quite a hike to get between platforms 3 and platforms 4-7 - plus you have to navigate the ticket barriers.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Also, p3 only gives access to the Wrexham line, and not the Crewe line, plus (using Quail) it doesn't look as though it's bi-di, so I'm not sure anything could use it to terminate and reverse back towards Telford / Craven Arms. Of course, that would leave only Cardiff-Holyhead trains able to use it, which I believe is the current scenario!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Also, p3 only gives access to the Wrexham line, and not the Crewe line, plus (using Quail) it doesn't look as though it's bi-di, so I'm not sure anything could use it to terminate and reverse back towards Telford / Craven Arms. Of course, that would leave only Cardiff-Holyhead trains able to use it, which I believe is the current scenario!

A new semaphore was put in at the south end of 3 a couple of years ago so trains can depart southward. Currently the odd HOW train terminates and departs there plus the last DOWN to the Cambrian and the odd Chester/Holyhead train. Its not that well used but does provide additional capacity in the event of late running. If all goes well on the odd hours the LM service arrives on 6 at around xx10 , then the Holyhead-Cardiff on 7 at xx15, the BHM to Cambrian arrives on 5 at xx19 and the CDF-Holyhead on 4a at xx19 followed by the Cambrian-BHM on 4b at xx25.

 

[Proud Salopian]

...letter of objection time again I think.

Please do. Either complete the online form (from the planning application's page) or write in to Shropshire Council's planning department.

This isn't about stopping improvement - it's about stopping Shrewsbury station becoming a (bigger) mess.

Just a reminder of the planning application: 13/01075/LBC

The case officer is Philip Belchere, who is a conservation officer.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A new semaphore was put in at the south end of 3 a couple of years ago so trains can depart southward. Currently the odd HOW train terminates and departs there plus the last DOWN to the Cambrian and the odd Chester/Holyhead train. Its not that well used but does provide additional capacity in the event of late running. If all goes well on the odd hours the LM service arrives on 6 at around xx10 , then the Holyhead-Cardiff on 7 at xx15, the BHM to Cambrian arrives on 5 at xx19 and the CDF-Holyhead on 4a at xx19 followed by the Cambrian-BHM on 4b at xx25.

Funny how P3 was used more before the new semaphore went in than it is now.
Most of the Chesters used it, plus down WSMR.
Now WSMR is no more, and the integration of the Cambrian/Chester diagrams means everything has to split/join in P4 (because trains from Chester can't reach P3).
No doubt the resignalling due around 2045 will sort it out!

 

[Proud Salopian]

I think it will be used more again when 4 & 7 have the Virgin London trains using them.

3 is a good platform and now has its own waiting room and lift. I use it now and again when a HOWL train uses it. Walking straight through the iron gates into the town is a good feature too. (Though no doubt ATW are looking into barriers... )

 

[NickJ]

interesting that Virgin London trains will use P 4 and 7. Is there any further news about Virgin applying for track access from the ORR/Network Rail. There is nothing on either website.

 

[Proud Salopian]

interesting that Virgin London trains will use P 4 and 7. Is there any further news about Virgin applying for track access from the ORR/Network Rail. There is nothing on either website.

Sorry - it was just speculation of mine that Virgin would use 4 & 7 - these two being the station's main through platforms which I'd presume would be the ones used by their Shrewsbury-London trains! (I suppose they could use any of the platforms, as the service starts/terminates at Shrewsbury..)