Siemens to build new factory in Goole, East Yorkshire

[Bigfoot]

Siemens announce their UK rail factory plans.

http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/news_pr...iemens-plans-new-rail-factory-in-goole-uk.htm

Siemens has signed a long term agreement for lease of land in Goole, East Riding of Yorkshire, with plans to establish a new state-of-the-art factory to manufacture and commission trains. This development, which could mean an investment of up to £200m, is a major step forward for Siemens’ journey in the UK. Siemens aims to start phased development of the 67 acre site later this year, if investment conditions are met, and subject to the company’s success in major future orders.

The new factory could employ up to 700 people in skilled engineering and manufacturing roles, plus an additional 250 people during the construction phase. Around 1,700 indirect jobs are expected to be created throughout the UK supply chain.

 

[Agent_Squash]

This will go some way to counter the 'Made in Britain' advantage that Bombardier currently has.

 

[Domh245]

This will go some way to counter the 'Made in Britain' advantage that Bombardier currently has.

Not just Bombardier now, but Hitachi and CAF as well. That said, this does seem like an odd thing to be doing - Siemens are still merging with Alstom who are saying that their widnes plant can also act as a train assembly facility - this is just doubling up on that.

 

[HainultLoop]

Can't help thinking this is a bit late after they've delivered all class 700s, their biggest ever order, and with the 707s probably being all finished by the time the factory opens, that leaves just the 25 6 car 717s, which are meant to be in service by the end of this year anyway. They seem to be banking on a large stock order to come, possibly HS2.

 

[Domh245]

They seem to be banking on a large stock order to come, possibly HS2.

Or the Deep Tube Upgrade.

 

[DelW]

They seem to be banking on a large stock order to come, possibly HS2.

Note the phrase in the OP's quote, "subject to the company's success in major future orders". A Siemens interviewee on Today this morning, stated that it will only go ahead if they win sufficient orders.

 

[AM9]

Note the phrase in the OP's quote, "subject to the company's success in major future orders". A Siemens interviewee on Today this morning, stated that it will only go ahead if they win sufficient orders.

Which is the same for any contractor. Do you think that Bombardier will pay for all those staff to stay at the ex-BR works even if they can't do anything that contributes to the bottom line in Montreal?

 

[47802]

Or the Deep Tube Upgrade.

That's what they are potentially being setup for in the case of Siemens there is HS2 as well.

 

[59CosG95]

Which is the same for any contractor. Do you think that Bombardier will pay for all those staff to stay at the ex-BR works even if they can't do anything that contributes to the bottom line in Montreal?

Likewise for Alstom in Paris, Siemens in Berlin/Munich, Hitachi in Tokyo, Talgo in Madrid, and CAF in Beasain.
Of course, the order doesn't have to be just rolling stock; the advantage of the new-build factory is that (if required) the space for locomotive manufacture can be added. Derby doesn't have that space, so if any UK FOC (more likely than a TOC) were to choose a new type of loco, Bombardier would have to import everything from their loco works in Kassel, while Siemens could set up assembly jigs in Goole.
I'm not saying they will.

 

[55z]

Who can say "Made in Britain" when all that happens is that they are ASSEMBLED in Britain, parts come from all over Europe and the world even Bombardier do this and Siemens will be doing this also.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Siemens left this quite late as they now are planning to open an UK assembly plant which their rivals already have pipped them on this. If you can't beat them, then join them!

I am a big fan of the Desiro fleet in the form of class 350/450/444, really good quality and very comfortable as the 444 is indeed a worthy successor to the 442 on South Western Railway (The 442 is not giving up the ghost yet as both hardy workhorses 442s and 444s will both be seen working on SW tracks soon).

The Desiro UK fleet may no longer be manufactured so I hope Siemens will resurrect a similar updated version of the 444 to match rivals' equivalents built for longer distance journeys. If the new updated Siemens trains match or top the 450/442/444 then these could be future replacements for the SW network instead of more Aventras.

If this means many more Desiro City trains to run longer distances across the country on more franchises other than Thameslink, that the gov may try to steer more TOCs into taking these on, then no thank you very much, you can shove it.

One of my biggest worries that the class 444s in the future may get replaced by a barebones Desiro City type down my way as it is now possible to run a 700 on less comfortable journeys between the south coast and East Anglia, then this should not be made possible nor give the gov any dodgy ideas.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Maybe this won't be desiro related. Could be with the hope of ICE style trains for HS2, or deep tube underground trains. On the other hand, it could be with the hope of a large Desiro city order for South Eastern.

 

[59CosG95]

Siemens left this quite late as they now are planning to open an UK assembly plant which their rivals already have pipped them on this. If you can't beat them, then join them!

I am a big fan of the Desiro fleet in the form of class 350/450/444, really good quality and very comfortable as the 444 is indeed a worthy successor to the 442 on South Western Railway (The 442 is not giving up the ghost yet as both hardy workhorses 442s and 444s will both be seen working on SW tracks soon).

The Desiro UK fleet may no longer be manufactured so I hope Siemens will resurrect a similar updated version of the 444 to match rivals' equivalents built for longer distance journeys. If the new updated Siemens trains match or top the 450/442/444 then these could be future replacements for the SW network instead of more Aventras.

https://www.globalrailnews.com/2015/05/13/siemens-reveals-125mph-emu-for-uk/ This was published about 3 years ago - no orders for it since then, but they may be waiting to spring upon it.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Yes, Siemens may be angling for HS2 orders and the potential of building an Aventra rival would have spurred them into opening a plant here.

If this is more than Desiro City trains then I would welcome this!

 

[59CosG95]

Yes, Siemens may be angling for HS2 orders and the potential of building an Aventra rival would have spurred them into opening a plant here.

If this is more than Desiro City trains then I would welcome this!

And, as I speculated, the new plant might well curry favour with freight companies if a UK Gauge version of their Vectron locomotive platform made its way into Siemens' plans.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Could the new facility not be used for heavy overhauls of EMUs (e.g. 700s) when they become due (during slack times of non-building)?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Note the phrase in the OP's quote, "subject to the company's success in major future orders". A Siemens interviewee on Today this morning, stated that it will only go ahead if they win sufficient orders.

Which is the same for any contractor. Do you think that Bombardier will pay for all those staff to stay at the ex-BR works even if they can't do anything that contributes to the bottom line in Montreal?

The site at Goole is well-placed for imports, and also for other Siemens businesses.
They have a big wind turbine assembly business on the east coast for the offshore farms.
I'm sure it's not just the rail aspect that is causing the development.

 

[J-2739]

This'll be perfect to regenerate the dying economy of Yorkshire (like East Yorkshire).

Since the 90s, we've had no industry in the rails.

 

[D365]

Isn’t the “merger” between Alstom and Siemens Mobility still supposed to be going ahead? Gone a bit quiet recently.

Could the new facility not be used for heavy overhauls of EMUs (e.g. 700s) when they become due (during slack times of non-building)?

Not at the rate at which train companies are ordering vast new fleets

 

[CosherB]

And, as I speculated, the new plant might well curry favour with freight companies if a UK Gauge version of their Vectron locomotive platform made its way into Siemens' plans.

Which FOC wants a different flavour of 68/88?

 

[59CosG95]

Which FOC wants a different flavour of 68/88?

Not implying any of them do, it's just an afterthought that if Siemens provided facilities for such machines, order books may be filled.
Purely speculating.

 

[Domh245]

Isn’t the “merger” between Alstom and Siemens Mobility still supposed to be going ahead? Gone a bit quiet recently.

I believe that it is, but it'll only be confirmed at an Alstom EGM that is "to be held before July 31, 2018" - with the anticipated merger occurring at the end of this calendar year. Up until then, it's business as usual.

 

[43096]

Isn’t the “merger” between Alstom and Siemens Mobility still supposed to be going ahead? Gone a bit quiet recently.

Which makes the decision of both Alstom and Siemens to have assembly plants over here even more bonkers.

We went for years barely able to support one train-making site, now we have plans announced that could take that to five (Alstom, Bombardier, CAF, Hitachi, Siemens). There is simply not the volume of work to justify that. Historically, train-building has gone in boom/bust cycles. We're currently in a boom period, so we know what comes next...

 

[The Ham]

The thought in my mind is, given the uncertainty over what trade tariffs may exist post Brexit, it could be a way of importing trains to this country more cheaply. In that you import the parts (without needing to export and then re-import as part of the final train) from elsewhere.

 

[D365]

What about the uncertainty in train orders going to Siemens post-717? Bombardier seems to be the go-to for EMUs these days, with Hitachi, CAF and Stadler for electric/diesel fleets in their various forms.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

What about the uncertainty in train orders going to Siemens post-717? Bombardier seems to be the go-to for EMUs these days, with Hitachi, CAF and Stadler for electric/diesel fleets in their various forms.

Precisely, Siemens are late to the party that other rivals are being favoured, they're now taking action so not to miss out

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Which makes the decision of both Alstom and Siemens to have assembly plants over here even more bonkers.
We went for years barely able to support one train-making site, now we have plans announced that could take that to five (Alstom, Bombardier, CAF, Hitachi, Siemens). There is simply not the volume of work to justify that. Historically, train-building has gone in boom/bust cycles. We're currently in a boom period, so we know what comes next...

The Alstom plant at Widnes is part of a restructuring of the company's operations like spares and maintenance, with the capability to expand operations should the business develop.
They are closing other sites (eg Preston) as part of this, concentrating resources at Widnes.
I expect Siemens are thinking along similar lines.
Neither are going to be full manufacturing sites, and nor is the Bombardier site at Derby, who also import many components.
Nobody has a fully-integrated train-building plant any more.

 

[Wombat]

Or the Deep Tube Upgrade.

Sorry for the brief digression, but I've been wondering about this recently - once you've built a tube train, how do you get it down to the tunnels? I assume that there must be access points somewhere, but where are they?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

All the deep-level tube lines emerge to the surface, which is where the train depots are located, sometimes a long way from the nearest tube tunnel.
Examples are at Ruislip, Edgware, Cockfosters, Neasden etc.
Waterloo & City is different, and I think their train vehicles are craned in and out of an access shaft at Waterloo.

 

[DelW]

Waterloo & City is different, and I think their train vehicles are craned in and out of an access shaft at Waterloo.

The Waterloo and City used to be served by a rail-connected vehicle lift on the north-west side of the station, which was removed when International was built.
As LNW-GW said, there is now an access shaft, which is above the tracks on the south-east side of the main line station, where stock can be lifted in or out using a road crane. This was last done when the stock had a mid-life refurb some years ago.