Siemens unveil mockup of proposed new tube train

[jopsuk]

UK: Siemens has unveiled a full-sized mock-up of the train which it intends to offer when Transport for London calls tenders for new fleets for London Underground's small-profile tube lines.

Part of Siemens' Inspiro family, the articulated design for London would feature wide through gangways, air-conditioning and an option for fully-automated operation.

The trains would use the same traction package as the Inspiro rolling stock being delivered to the Warszawa metro, but would feature a smaller-profile body suitable for London. This would include a distinctively styled cab with a front end not dissimilar to the LU roundel logo. Industrial design for the trains has been undertaken by Atlantic Design, while the mock-up was produced by Curvature Group.

click through for pictures, more details

For anyone that's interested

The public can visit the mock-up at the free 'Going Underground' exhibition at The Crystal in London's Royal Victoria Docks from October 8 2013 to January 8 2014

This is the new building by the Excel end of the dangleway. Take the DLR to Royal Victoria Dock to get there.

 

[table38]

click through for pictures, more details

Reminds me of:

It won't need platform-edge doors, it can just disintegrate errant passengers with it's laser beam

 

[announcements]

I'm really looking forward to seeing this mock-up and I'm glad it's going to be there until January. It looks like a similar concept to the '09 and S stock mock ups at Euston Square gardens back in '06 and '08, respectively.

 

[D365]

That cab... It's a folding rice bowl! Those windows... They're tiny! Giving 83/95/96 Stocks a good run for their money

I'll have to go see that exhibition, if I do get a chance this month

Also, the air-conditioning concept looks interesting, but in that form it wouldn't really be suitable for the (essentially) fully underground Victoria or W&C, if ever proposed for those lines.

 

[Snapper]

Siemens have unveiled a mock up of their new Inspiro tube train at the Crystal in London's Docklands. It will be open to the public as part of the 'Going Underground' exhibition:

http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p144531849

 

[Manchester77]

Windows are tiny, no reason why those digital screens couldn't go for larger windows with maps higher up. Also appear to have used northern seat moquette for the mock up

 

[whhistle]

That's an awful design!

 

[Clip]

I like the look of that - something different for sure and thats something that we should encourage IMO.

NOt too fussed about window size - theres not much to see in a tunnel

 

[WatcherZero]

Also curved glass a pain, smaller flat panels would be much cheaper both to build and to maintain.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not too fussed about window size - theres not much to see in a tunnel

That's what the original Underground managers thought when the built the "padded cells" but passenger protests soon means that proper sized windows were fitted to subsequent rolling stock designs...

 

[Murph]

The thing which annoys me most with the small windowed tube stock is the inability to see the station name on the platform when you're stood away from the doors. The big style of window made it fairly easy to see the names.

Theoretically, I suppose the auto announcer should cover this, but between tunnel noise and automatic brain-filtering of the incessant babble from the announcer, it becomes necessary to be able to see the signs sometimes. I've certainly found it very irritating not to be able to easily see onto the platform, but not sure if it's less annoying for daily users (I'm only an occasional visitor to London, but heavy tube user when there). Additionally, I think that it makes me more reluctant to leave the vicinity of the doors if there's no seats, which isn't good for loading/dwell, if that's a common semi-sub-concious reaction to the window size.

I do also wonder if the small windows make it worse for sufferers of motion sickness, as being unable to clearly see an external reference for the motion can make things worse for them.

 

[jon0844]

I know the windows on the Central line weren't popular, but they seem fine to me and give you a much bigger view of the surroundings - good for the outdoor stretches, but also for seeing station signs.

I think that the mock up train might be attempting to look futuristic, like out of a sci-fi vision of the future, but it's really not that revolutionary. Yes, you have the improved gangway access (a very good feature) but otherwise what's different? The internal layout is based on the current thinking, being very similar to that of the existing Victoria line trains.

No harm in that if the current thinking works, but if it's supposed to show off the future then where are the clever things like OLED displays for ads, eInk for route maps, more innovative use of LED lighting, better customer information (internal and external) etc?

The main that makes it look like it's from the future is the driving cab - the one thing guaranteed to change!

 

[Clip]

No harm in that if the current thinking works, but if it's supposed to show off the future then where are the clever things like OLED displays for ads, eInk for route maps, more innovative use of LED lighting, better customer information (internal and external) etc?

I understand where you are coming from with this sort of thinking BUT and this really is a bit BUT, the more electronic stuff you have the more maintenence it will require. If eInk stuff goes wrong - you cant see a map - do you then take that train out of service?

LED Lighting would be so much better but Im guessing the mock up shows this better in real life? I may have to pop down and have a looksy

 

[jon0844]

I understand where you are coming from with this sort of thinking BUT and this really is a bit BUT, the more electronic stuff you have the more maintenence it will require. If eInk stuff goes wrong - you cant see a map - do you then take that train out of service?

LED Lighting would be so much better but Im guessing the mock up shows this better in real life? I may have to pop down and have a looksy

I expect they are using LED lights, given Siemens has used nothing but LEDs on the Heathrow Express refurbs. Actually, I think that's more futuristic than this train come to think of it! But my point was better and more innovative use of this technology.

Yes, eInk failing would be an issue. I have no idea how reliable it is (now, or in 5 or 10 years from now) but let's remember that eInk needs no power to remain 'on' - only to change. So a route map shouldn't disappear. It's only the aspects that change which would now be fixed - and I'd say the simple solution is to make sure that the core information never changes - and only things around it, or perhaps over/under the station names will.

And as for my OLED displays to show ads; these would only be for advertisements and probably not every single ad slot (nothing wrong with ordinary card for most). Perhaps a few per carriage, sold at a premium to advertisers that want animated ads (and a nice little earner for TfL).

 

[yorkie]

Will that red circular light actually be illuminated at the front of the train? I'd be surprised if so (with the exception of any future appearance on Channel 5, in which case a backwards running train, with tail lights leading, during a reverse sunrise disguised as a sunset is only to be expected!).

Interestingly this is the first tube stock with walk-through gangways.

 

[yorksrob]

Puts me in mind of a giant larvae.

 

[jon0844]

Most concepts are designed to get people talking, and it's good that it gets the name Siemens into the mind of Londoners.

Assuming they ever won a contract and built new trains, let's look back in the years to come and see how much was saved. The open gangways are the best feature and I think all tube trains should be like this (not just sub-surface). It's a reak shame the 09 stock didn't have it.

 

[Rich McLean]

Also something not mentioned yet.

Would there be a requirement for emergency doors at the cab ends, for instance if the train fails in a tunnel and an evacuation needs to take place?

 

[jon0844]

The end cabs are actually escape pods that detach and propel themselves to safety...!

 

[Clip]

The end cabs are actually escape pods that detach and propel themselves to safety...!

Indeed - has no one learned anything from watching Futurama

 

[Mikey C]

Most concepts are designed to get people talking, and it's good that it gets the name Siemens into the mind of Londoners.

Assuming they ever won a contract and built new trains, let's look back in the years to come and see how much was saved. The open gangways are the best feature and I think all tube trains should be like this (not just sub-surface). It's a reak shame the 09 stock didn't have it.

The windows at the end of the carriages do provide a useful ventilation function as well in tunnels, so unless they actually get a working aircon system, will they still need some sort of opening?

 

[jon0844]

That's a good point.

 

[Murph]

Another thing to consider with articulated tube stock would be how to provide some sort of smoke barrier. While the train materials themselves can be extremely fire-safe, there's no way to control the flammability of passenger bags, etc.

I'm not aware of an incident of this nature, but the scenario I'm thinking of is something like a medium to large bag containing lots of some sort of high-smoke fuel (e.g. paper), and a damaged or defective lithium battery in the same bag. So, something with lots of smoke, but not all that much fire and heat, but perhaps sufficient to prevent the train from reaching the next platform (e.g. if it trips a safety circuit or bursts an air line).

Non-articulated stock allows at least a little containment / separation from that smoke. It's not nearly as big an issue for the S stock since that's generally not inside a tube, therefore allowing mass evacuation through the side doors (track safety issues, obviously, but assuming train stopped, tracks blocked by control, current off, etc).

I wonder if the solution would be something like an inflatable emergency smoke barrier in the gangways? Obviously under crush-loaded conditions, not everyone is going to be able to evacuate into adjacent carriages, but it might provide some mitigation or additional survival time.

Just a thought.

 

[starrymarkb]

I know the windows on the Central line weren't popular, but they seem fine to me and give you a much bigger view of the surroundings - good for the outdoor stretches, but also for seeing station signs.

I like them too, also seems to make things less claustrophobic. I understand though that they were prone to leaking, more expensive to replace when damaged and generally a maintenance headache. (like much else with the 1992 stock)

 

[jon0844]

Another thing to consider with articulated tube stock would be how to provide some sort of smoke barrier. While the train materials themselves can be extremely fire-safe, there's no way to control the flammability of passenger bags, etc.

I'm not aware of an incident of this nature, but the scenario I'm thinking of is something like a medium to large bag containing lots of some sort of high-smoke fuel (e.g. paper), and a damaged or defective lithium battery in the same bag. So, something with lots of smoke, but not all that much fire and heat, but perhaps sufficient to prevent the train from reaching the next platform (e.g. if it trips a safety circuit or bursts an air line).

Non-articulated stock allows at least a little containment / separation from that smoke. It's not nearly as big an issue for the S stock since that's generally not inside a tube, therefore allowing mass evacuation through the side doors (track safety issues, obviously, but assuming train stopped, tracks blocked by control, current off, etc).

I wonder if the solution would be something like an inflatable emergency smoke barrier in the gangways? Obviously under crush-loaded conditions, not everyone is going to be able to evacuate into adjacent carriages, but it might provide some mitigation or additional survival time.

Just a thought.

Sounds like a question to bring up with TfL and/or Siemens if going to the exhibition. It seems like something that nobody in the media (that I've seen at least) has mentioned, but it's rather important for designing a new train that might be running in a narrow deep level tube for 30-40 years...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The Paris Metro have been using fully open stock in long underground lines for years now with no problems; they aren't even articulated.

 

[A-driver]

The Paris Metro have been using fully open stock in long underground lines for years now with no problems; they aren't even articulated.

I would imagine that on current stock in the event of fire you wouldn't move through to the next coach for long-on the beep lines the entire tunnel will fill with smoke quickly and so you would be told to get out and walk up the line fairly quickly. Open plan stock may actually help as there won't be any doors to go through to get into other carriages.

 

[southern442]

This design would be good for use on the Glasgow Subway, as it seems to have got a lot of its design from those trains. But on the lines that it is meant for, where there are large sections of above ground running, these trains would be incredibly claustrophobic, especially with the windows and the curved design. And I think the electronic adverts and maps are a waste of energy and electricity. The Waterloo and city line, maybe, but the Piccadilly and Bakerloo lines need something like an updated version of the '92 stock.

 

[Nym]

The Waterloo and city line, maybe, but the Piccadilly and Bakerloo lines need something like an updated version of the '92 stock.

Dear god please NO!

 

[Manchester77]

Thought TfL only plan this 'new tube for london' to run on the piccadilly to begin with due to budgetary constraints.