Sileby Derailment

[Robin Banks]

Hello all,

Been browsing here for a while but not posted as of yet. I've noticed that no-one has mentioned this morning's derailment near Sileby and as I've been able to get hold of a little information on this one I thought I'd share it with you. To put it simply, what I believe to be 2P01 06:30 LEI to DBY was about five minutes down in the Syston area before striking a footbridge that had collapsed after being hit by a lorry. The bridge spans the both the railway and a road to a NWR access point, and it was down this road that the lorry was travelling. The signaller was unfortunately unable to inform the driver of the incident before the approaching train had reached the scene, resulting in a collision and minor derailment. We had six customers on board the service, but they were unhurt. However, the driver of the unit has required medical attention.

I hope this is of help. Judging from previous posts, I'm sure some of you will have pictures of it soon - I look forward to seeing them

 

[jacknottm]

Train Involved was 158856 working 1L03 06:19 Nottingham > Norwich

Only one onboard injured was driver with a leg injury who has had to be freed by emergency services, Further updates as they appear

MML Shut in this part for the time being

Jack

 

[Robin Banks]

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the update there Sir. It's just looking at the system that I had in front of me this morning, 2P01 just seemed to fit. 1L03 and 2D55 were shown as canx from origin.

 

[jacknottm]

Yeah thats what i couldnt understand either mate

BBC Finally cleared it up though as they said the train was from Nottingham > Norwich this morning

Cheers

Jack

 

[Robin Banks]

Ah - so we were on the same wavelength then, rather than me being silly and confused! I believe this to be the location, just NW of Barrow-upon-Soar station. The tipper lorry struck the footbridge (see here) then continued in the SE direction and ended up under the High Street overbridge.

Here's an image from leicestershirevillages.com's Barrow mini-site -

 

[Nym]

oh no, 158856 out of action then, and they never did have enough 158s for LIV - NOR anyway! mayber they could make up a 3 car 158 using the un-knackered end of 856

 

[ChrisCooper]

Wonder how long the unit will be out for. EMT are struggling enough for units as it is, without loosing one for a fair amount of time. At least everyone is alright. Probably wouldn't have been going that fast at the time, slowing for Sileby Junction where it would cross to the slow lines, infact the signal just south of High Street bridge would have been showing a flashing yellow (or a single yellow if the route wasn't set for some reason).
Interestingly, for a road vehicle to have hit that bridge it would have had to be on NR property, on Google Maps two rail workers can actually be see locking or unlocking the gate, just next to the van. Must have happened just before the train went through, since the 6:07 Meridien from Nottingham wouldn't have gone through much before (goes through Loughborough none stop a few minutes ahead of the Norwich).
EMT seem to have done a real bail out on services though, 1 an hour south of Leicester on the MML, then again, that could be down to there being very few trains south of Leicester when the incident happened, then again, 5 should have gone south ahead of it, plus what is stabled at St Pancras overnight. Wonder if they will at least try and get a bit more out for the evening peak, it it's not cleared by then?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

oh no, 158856 out of action then, and they never did have enough 158s for LIV - NOR anyway! mayber they could make up a 3 car 158 using the un-knackered end of 856

It's a Central Trains 158, the correct term is the LESS knackered end, they are all knackered.

 

[Jordy]

The driver was trapped for some time and has pretty bad leg injuries apparently, hope he recovers quickly!

 

[ChrisCooper]

Actually, looking at the pictures, it's a 3 car unit, so it can be run as a 2 car unit, although the centre car might need turning, depending on which end it's cab is. Then again, with Northern getting the 3rd cars from the 3 car units, will they be expecting one of the 2 undamaged cars anyway. Looks like the lorry driver had a lucky escape aswell from the state of the lorry.

 

[driver9000]

by all accounts the lorry had been delivering ballast to an engineering posession site, and was moving around with the tipper body in the upright position :?

In the photograph I can only make out 2 vehicles in the 158s formation, even if it had been a three car 158, the centre car has no driving controls so would be of no use, a toilet and a cubicle housing some MCBs occupies the area where the cab would normally be. Northern have started introducing the centre cars into traffic (I was recently given a traction update on them). The way to create a 3 car using the unaffected car of 158856 would be to couple its inner end upto a cab end of a 2 car unit, then plug in the electrical jumpers using the jumper sockets on the car ends.

I hope the driver makes a speedy recovery, and Im impressed with the way the 158 stood up to the collision - a very lucky man....

 

[jacknottm]

More detailed pictures can be found at

http://mpt-trains.fotopic.net/c1451298.html

Jack

 

[O L Leigh]

Jack: Given that a colleague was seriously injured in the front of that unit, I wonder whether it is suitable material for your avatar. I'm not convinced that it's the most sensitive image you could have chosen.

However, I would also like to wish the driver involved a speedy recovery. The news reports are describing his injuries as "serious" and I can quite believe it. Hit anything sizeable and the desk will come back a fair way, so if you can't get out the seat quickly enough you will end up with some pretty horrific multiple fractures. I just hope that this is something that he can come back from.

one TN

 

[jacknottm]

Apologies for the offence caused with the avatar, i have removed this

Jack

 

[Kneedown]

Actually, looking at the pictures, it's a 3 car unit, so it can be run as a 2 car unit

It's a 2 car, we have no 3 cars left, and they were all purple people eaters.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Probably wouldn't have been going that fast at the time, slowing for Sileby Junction where it would cross to the slow lines, infact the signal just south of High Street bridge would have been showing a flashing yellow

He'd have been doing about 90 at that location! Sileby Jct is good way off, and the speed is 40 over it. You don't start to brake until after the flashing yellow.

I have it from good authority that the Drivers injuries, although serious, are not as bad as the media is portraying.

This incident raises the question of the safety of Sprinter units. There's not a lot of space between the Driver and the front of the unit, and no defined crumple zone. Should we not be looking at replacements for these outdated units as soon as possible, irrespective of the cost?
Heaven knows what the outcome would have been if it had been the no2 end of a 153!

 

[Max]

This incident raises the question of the safety of Sprinter units. There's not a lot of space between the Driver and the front of the unit, and no defined crumple zone. Should we not be looking at replacements for these outdated units as soon as possible, irrespective of the cost?

But surely there's very little crumple zone on many trains on our network? The cost of replacing all those units of a similar design would be astronomical, and it simply wouldn't be cost effective. Anyway, the sprinter family can hardly be classed as 'outdated', they're a pretty solid family of units. In comparison, think how much worse the damage would have been to a pacer. Those are the units that desperately need withdrawing in my opinion.

Hope the driver has a fast recovery!

 

[me123]

I can only echo well wishers in wishing the driver a speedy recovery.

There have been a few incidents where the lack of "crumple-zone" has caused injury and death, so maybe we should consider allowing more space with future units, not necessarily replacing older ones. And, as kneedown said, let's just be glad it wasn't a 153!

 

[P156KWJ]

News fresh from BBC East Midlands Today: Not Sielby, it was just outside Barrow-on-soar station and was a through train, so the estimated speed was between 70-90mph. The train driver has suffered 2 broken legs and a broken pelvis. The truck driver is to blame, as he had the dumper in the up position whilst driving, and is uninjured. One of the six passengers has had minor injuries. The line is expected to have a very limited service running on the fast lines only from around 4am tomorrow.

 

[westcoaster]

News fresh from BBC East Midlands Today: Not Sielby, it was just outside Barrow-on-soar station and was a through train, so the estimated speed was between 70-90mph. The train driver has suffered 2 broken legs and a broken pelvis. The truck driver is to blame, as he had the dumper in the up position whilst driving, and is uninjured. One of the six passengers has had minor injuries. The line is expected to have a very limited service running on the fast lines only from around 4am tomorrow.

i do not think it is wise to speculate as you do not know all of the reasons behind it, it may look straight forward what happened, but theye maybe other causes.

i wish the driver a speedy recovery, and my thought are for his family and colleagues.

 

[Max]

i do not think it is wise to speculate as you do not know all of the reasons behind it, it may look straight forward what happened, but theye maybe other causes.

I think speculation is perfectly reasonable based on what we know. OK, so the BBC isn't always 100% reliable, but it's likely to be more reliable than Bob in Plymouth who hasn't even read the news. Anyway, it isn't really 'speculation' as such, presumably just the relaying of information from BBC to here.

 

[Wayfarer Sam]

It could have been a lot worse. The train 4 minutes behind was a 8 car 222 which would have been accelerating to reach 110mph at the time of impact.

 

[P156KWJ]

i do not think it is wise to speculate as you do not know all of the reasons behind it, it may look straight forward what happened, but theye maybe other causes.

i wish the driver a speedy recovery, and my thought are for his family and colleagues.

I am just quoting what I heard from the news, which at the moment seems to be the most reliable source of information. I also hope that the driver recovers as quick as possible, and best wishes to him and his family

 

[ChrisCooper]

We don't know much about the situation at all in regard to the actual cause of the incident, so it's much to early to start pointing fingers. I wonder if a SPAD was involved anyone would be coming up here and saying the train driver's fault. All accidents are caused by a complicated series of events, and whilst human error is often the prime cause, there are often many failings that allow the human error to occur, to remain undetected (the lorry driver was not the only one on site) and to lead to what could have been a very serious accident.
Anyway, the BBC are not the best source of reliable information when it comes to accidents.
As for the suggestion that the driver would have been better off with a modern train, with many modern trains they would be dead, since the cab is part of the crumple zone. 158s arn't tested in terms of crashworthyness, none of the Sprinters are (no typpees have been involved in major accidents of the sort other types have), but modern is goood dooesn't always hold trre for crrashwthynss. In an accident like this, pure strength will beat crumple zones any day.
P.S, soorrry abouut the largee amooount oof typoos, my keeyboard seeems to bee pplaying uup.

 

[Kneedown]

But surely there's very little crumple zone on many trains on our network? The cost of replacing all those units of a similar design would be astronomical, and it simply wouldn't be cost effective. Anyway, the sprinter family can hardly be classed as 'outdated', they're a pretty solid family of units. In comparison, think how much worse the damage would have been to a pacer. Those are the units that desperately need withdrawing in my opinion.

Hope the driver has a fast recovery!

It may not be cost effective, but can you put a price on someones life? By todays standards, yes, Sprinters are outdated. Newer units than them are being replaced, and there would be more than enough money available, for the NHS as well, if the government were to stop wasting it in the first place.

Thanks to all for their best wishes to the Driver, i'll be sure to pass them on when he's well enough!

 

[richa2002]

It could have been a lot worse. The train 4 minutes behind was a 8 car 222 which would have been accelerating to reach 110mph at the time of impact.

Speed is a factor but there are other factors. I personally think a Meridian would have faired better with it's newer, safer design and the bulkhead between the driver and passengers should in theory provide a fairly-decent bulkhead.

 

[devon_metro]

158 has faired pretty well if you ask me.

 

[Max]

It may not be cost effective, but can you put a price on someones life? By todays standards, yes, Sprinters are outdated. Newer units than them are being replaced, and there would be more than enough money available, for the NHS as well, if the government were to stop wasting it in the first place.

I'm not sure you can justify millions of pounds of investments for 2 broken legs and a broken pelvis though. I think the fact that the driver only come away with broken bones proves that the sprinters are pretty crashworthy, considering the impact was occured at the unit's top speed.

 

[P156KWJ]

good job it wasn't a pacer! If an HST had hit is it wouldn't have done much damage I think, cos of the massive force and shape of them...

 

[jacknottm]

Near Normal service expected tomorrow with trains unable to stop at loughborough, so the slow lines will be in use.

My thoughts are with the drivers family and i hope he has a speedy recovery

Jack

 

[ChrisCooper]

It seems standard with accidents these days to get this silly "this type would have stood up better" and "this type would have come of worse" speculation. In reality, unless another type has been in a near identical accident it's very hard to tell. Speculating on deaths and injuries particularly is hard, since the location and number of people is a big factor, and the human body itself provides a massive wildcard when it comes to that (from the sound of it, the driver in this could have easily died, perhaps had he been older or had an underlying medical condition he might have, but then again it must have come to a pretty rapid stop, a passenger striking or being struck by a hard object due to the deceleration could have been killed aswell).
One problem with trains, and most other vehicles, is that they have strong and weak points. An impact effecting strong points will result in less damage that an impact involving weaker points. The Mk1s for example are very resistant to forces on the underframe, but are weak to sheer forces between the body and underframe. Mk3s are strong in end loading, but weak to forces bending the body. Crumple zones in modern stock are deliberate weak points. In accidents, weak points can work for or against those involved, they can absorb forces and prevent them being passed onto occupants, yet they can cause a loss of survival space. In some cases they do both. The only real difference with modern vehicles and old ones is it's more controlled, but that doesn't mean that all weak spots will not effect survival space. I wouldn't want to be in the gangways, vestibules or cabs on various modern trains when in any sort of collision.

 

[Kneedown]

I'm not sure you can justify millions of pounds of investments for 2 broken legs and a broken pelvis though. I think the fact that the driver only come away with broken bones proves that the sprinters are pretty crashworthy, considering the impact was occured at the unit's top speed.

The fact is, it could quite easily have been a lot worse. A broken leg can quite easily be fatal if a major blood vessel is damaged and rescue is a long way off, as it was in this case, two and a half hours off! A broken pelvis can be even more hazardous as there is the potential even more blood vessel, organ or nerve damage.
As Chris Cooper pointed out, it might well have been a different story had the Driver been older or not in good health. Fortunately he's a young, fit guy.
I stand by my belief that you cannot put a price on an innocent life, especially when they are doing their everyday job. Sprinters and Pacers must go, and be replaced by something with proper crumple zones that will give those on board a better chance of survival in the event of a collision. Or would you sooner wait until someone DOES get killed?