Single Justice Notice received for travelling without railcard

[es39]

Hello,

Last November, I travelled to Liverpool from Manchester, leaving my wallet (and therefore my railcard) at home. When my ticket was checked, I admitted my mistake and had my details taken. The checkie told me that I'd receive a letter offering me the opportunity to provide an explanation, and this letter arrived in February. I replied to the letter, sending my evidence to the email address provided (I thought I had sent it to the right email, but had typed .com at the end rather than .co.uk). Today, a SJPN arrives, offering me the chance to enter a plea, If I plead not guilty, what are the chances of me having a railcard and inadvertently sending the evidence to the wrong address constituting a viable defence.

All help appreciated. Cheers.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello,

Last November, I travelled to Liverpool from Manchester, leaving my wallet (and therefore my railcard) at home. When my ticket was checked, I admitted my mistake and had my details taken. The checkie told me that I'd receive a letter offering me the opportunity to provide an explanation, and this letter arrived in February. I replied to the letter, sending my evidence to the email address provided (I thought I had sent it to the right email, but had typed .com at the end rather than .co.uk). Today, a SJPN arrives, offering me the chance to enter a plea, If I plead not guilty, what are the chances of me having a railcard and inadvertently sending the evidence to the wrong address constituting a viable defence.

All help appreciated. Cheers.

Welcome to the forum.

If the matter reaches court, then you will lose - it's up to you to make sure that you send things to the right address. But there is currently a short window in which you may be able to sort things out with the railway before the matter gets to court. Write urgently (making sure that you are using the right email address this time) explaining what has happened, and including the response that you tried to send back in February, and asking if the railway will allow you at this late point to make an out of court settlement <edit> - or indeed, taking on board @jfollows' good point below, possibly nothing being charged at all if you can show you had a valid railcard. </edit>

Don't forget that you have managed to put yourself in the wrong, both by travelling without your railcard, and by sending your response to the wrong address. So you are asking the railway to be nice to you. That means that you need to be really nice to them - you can't demand anything !

 

[jfollows]

Hello and welcome!
Did you have a valid railcard at the time you travelled, just left at home?
If so you need to make an effort to contact whoever it was (Northern?) and discuss with them with a view to cancelling the prosecution based on the “forgotten railcard” exemption.
You need to make the effort to engage, as @Fawkes Cat has said, because if you let things proceed you will lose in court.
See https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf section 8.6 if you held a valid railcard at the time you travelled.

8. Railcards
If you use a Railcard to purchase a discounted Ticket, you must carry the Railcard (and
have it available for inspection) when you travel. The Railcard must be within its period
of validity when you travel (in other words it should not have expired).
The Railcard may have additional restrictions which will apply to any Tickets you buy
when using it.
If you have a Railcard, you must ensure that the information on it can be read by rail
staff. On occasions this printed information may fade over time. If your Railcard starts
to become illegible for this reason, we will replace it without charge. This can be done at
any station with a Ticket office or through the Licensed Retailer from which it was
purchased.
When you buy a national Railcard the full terms and conditions will be provided. They
are also available from www.railcard.co.uk, and on request from all staffed Ticket
offices.
If you are travelling with a Railcard discounted Ticket and are unable to present the
Railcard when asked by the staff or authorised agents of a Train Company, you will be
treated as having joined a train without a valid Ticket and Conditions 9.1 – 9.5 will apply.
However, if you were unable to present the Railcard because you had forgotten to carry
it on that particular journey or mislaid it, the Train Company concerned will refund any
fare or Penalty Fare paid in accordance with Condition 10.
In order to claim such a refund, you will need to contact the customer service
department of the Train Company that charged you the additional fare or Penalty Fare,
providing the full details of your Railcard, together with the additional Tickets you have
purchased or any Penalty Fares notices. A maximum of one such claim will be considered in any 12-month period.

 

[es39]

Welcome to the forum.

If the matter reaches court, then you will lose - it's up to you to make sure that you send things to the right address. But there is currently a short window in which you may be able to sort things out with the railway before the matter gets to court. Write urgently (making sure that you are using the right email address this time) explaining what has happened, and including the response that you tried to send back in February, and asking if the railway will allow you at this late point to make an out of court settlement.

Don't forget that you have managed to put yourself in the wrong, both by travelling without your railcard, and by sending your response to the wrong address. So you are asking the railway to be nice to you. That means that you need to be really nice to them - you can't demand anything !

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll get onto Northern now making it clear that I'm a eejit. I assume it'll be the same email address (Debt Recuperation)?

Hello and welcome!
Did you have a valid railcard at the time you travelled, just left at home?
If so you need to make an effort to contact whoever it was (Northern?) and discuss with them with a view to cancelling the prosecution based on the “forgotten railcard” exemption.
You need to make the effort to engage, as @Fawkes Cat has said, because if you let things proceed you will lose in court.
See https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf section 8.6 if you held a valid railcard at the time you travelled.

Valid railcard at the time. Checkie was lovely about it and said what would happen. As the other reply above points out I've been daft and need to ask them nicely to settle.

 

[Hadders]

There shouldn't be anything to settle here, ideally Northern should just withdraw the case if you send them what you tried to send them back in February. As @Fawkes Cat says you need to be nice to them, as they are entitled to prosecute if they want but normally in cases like this they're reasonable.

You might want to refer to the issue over the email address as an administrative error. Big companies often use administrative errors as an excuse when something goes wrong so it potentially works both ways.

I think the email address you'll need is [email protected]

 

[user9999999999]

If you fail to get a response in time from Northern, another option may be to select to have your case heard in court on your SJPN (I believe this is an option?) and take evidence of your railcard with you. I believe Northern have accepted this before once reached court, at least according to the post below:

Kirklees Magistrate's Court, Northern Trains, 14th October 2024

I spent an interesting morning today at Kirklees Magistrate's Court to observe a Northern prosecution session. I hope this is of interest in the ongoing discussions of Northern's prosecution practices. This session included one of the railcard cases where a pre-10 am journey had been made which...

www.railforums.co.uk

Hopefully you manage to get a response from Northern in time that this is not a necessary course of action, however.

 

[es39]

Thanks all for responding. I've sent an email to the relevant address (correct one this time) containing the requested evidence as well as the email I sent at the time, and requested they be lenient in this case. If I get a response I'll update.

 

[Hadders]

If you fail to get a response in time from Northern, another option may be to select to have your case heard in court on your SJPN (I believe this is an option?) and take evidence of your railcard with you

You're entitled to plead not guilty on the SJPN and ask for the matter to proceed to a trial in the Magistrates Court. The problem is this is what is called a strict liability offence and based on what has been said in this thread @es39 would be found guilty. The train company only has to show to the court that an invalid ticket was not held, and the lack of a railcard means the ticket was invalid. Once the case gets to the Magistrates that's all they have to worry about, they cannot apply discresion when deciding whether the law has been broken.

What needs to happen is Northern withdraw the case from court so it doesn't get in front of the Magistrates. Hopefully this is what will happen.

I believe Northern have accepted this before once reached court, at least according to the post below

Those cases were different. Northern withdrew cases where an 'Anytime' railcard discounted ticket was used before 10am. The Magistrates did not decide that the people were not guilty: Northern withdrew the cases before they got in front of the Magistrates.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks all for responding. I've sent an email to the relevant address (correct one this time) containing the requested evidence as well as the email I sent at the time, and requested they be lenient in this case. If I get a response I'll update.

did yo get any sort of auto reply so you know they got it this time this?
You may want to consider printing what you are e-mailing and posting it to the Railway company (not the court) with Royal Mail next day delivery
if you don't get this sorted it will cost a lot more to you than the cost of postage to the correct place (has to go to Northern's prosecutions unit - not some generic customer service postal address)

This assume it is Northern trains you are dealing with and who have now escalated your case to prosecution automatically because they never received a reply for you initially.

the court paperwork will say which train company it is if you do not have the original paperwork any more.

 

[es39]

did yo get any sort of auto reply so you know they got it this time this?
You may want to consider printing what you are e-mailing and posting it to the Railway company (not the court) with Royal Mail next day delivery
if you don't get this sorted it will cost a lot more to you than the cost of postage to the correct place (has to go to Northern's prosecutions unit - not some generic customer service postal address)

This assume it is Northern trains you are dealing with and who have now escalated your case to prosecution automatically because they never received a reply for you initially.

the court paperwork will say which train company it is if you do not have the original paperwork any more.

Got an auto reply confirming they received it. Sending a letter is a good idea too, I'll get onto it.

 

[WesternLancer]

Got an auto reply confirming they received it. Sending a letter is a good idea too, I'll get onto it.

Just make sure all ref numbers etc on what you post along with your postal address

 

[Honestviews]

The train company only has to show to the court that an invalid ticket was not held, and the lack of a railcard means the ticket was invalid. Once the case gets to the Magistrates that's all they have to worry about, they cannot apply discresion when deciding whether the law has been broken.

But they can give an absolute discharge. That means there is no punishment. It does give a criminal record for one year but then dissappears.

This is exactly the sort of matter either an absolute discharge is for. Of course there is no guarantee at all that the magistrate would give this sentence.

 

[Hadders]

But they can give an absolute discharge. That means there is no punishment. It does give a criminal record for one year but then dissappears.

This is exactly the sort of matter either an absolute discharge is for. Of course there is no guarantee at all that the magistrate would give this sentence.

As you point out, an absolute discharge still results in a criminal conviction.

It’s the criminal conviction that people are keen to avoid. They’ll pay whatever they need to pay to keep the case away from a court room.

 

[island]

But they can give an absolute discharge. That means there is no punishment. It does give a criminal record for one year but then dissappears.

This is exactly the sort of matter either an absolute discharge is for. Of course there is no guarantee at all that the magistrate would give this sentence.

An absolute discharge is outside the sentencing guidelines range for the offence. Magistrates must follow the sentencing guidelines for offences unless it would be contrary to the interests of justice to do so (section 59 Sentencing Act). The low end is a conditional discharge.

If the court does find that it would be contrary to the interests of justice if it did not impose an absolute discharge, and therefore imposes one, the criminal record would be spent immediately, not after a year.

 

[Honestviews]

An absolute discharge is outside the sentencing guidelines range for the offence. Magistrates must follow the sentencing guidelines for offences unless it would be contrary to the interests of justice to do so (section 59 Sentencing Act). The low end is a conditional discharge.

If the court does find that it would be contrary to the interests of justice if it did not impose an absolute discharge, and therefore imposes one, the criminal record would be spent immediately, not after a year.

Whilst it is outside of sentencing range both sections 79 and 59 allow the court to do so. As you rightly say section 59 contrary to interest of justice clause.

I have seen in given in a case when it was outside of the sentencing guidelines and there had been a report on this forum of someone getting an absolute discharge.

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[Hadders]

Discussion of absolute discharges is off-topic for this thread, which is to help @es39 with their case. If anyone wants to discuss absolute discharges then please start a new thread.