Skegness line reservations (Was - Compulsory reservations on Skegness trains)

[STINT47]

It looks like EMR are going to make their Skegness trains compulsory reservations this summer.

This seems unfortunate as whilst some will be able to pre book it will severely restric spur of the moment journeys for leisure. Plus for those who use the train for work they won't know of they can get to work in the morning and home again at each night.

Other concerns are that a lot of stations on this route are unmanned so will the guards have to control boarding? Also if someone does slip through without a reservation what can they do if they're discovered?

Train travel to Skegness this Summer | EMR

The seaside resort is as popular as ever with our customers, and we are expecting another busy summer as beachgoers head to Skegness for their holidays.

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Train travel to Skegness this Summer is different​

Train travel to Skegness will be different this Summer. You must book in advance to guarantee your space on the train.
This will apply to travel between 9 July and 9 September.

To ensure we have enough space to meet demand, we will be running a dedicated dynamic rail replacement service with bus co-ordinators for when our trains are busy. This includes fast and stopping services, with direct services to Butlins and Ingoldmells from Grantham and Boston stations.

We’ve introduced a service for you to pre-book your place on your chosen train. Booking as early as possible will help you get the best price and availability You can book up to 12 weeks in advance. By doing this, you’ll be able to select the train you wish to travel on and will be able to book your return journey at the same time. There isn’t the option to book a specific seat, but it will guarantee you a place on the train of your choice.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Other concerns are that a lot of stations on this route are unmanned so will the guards have to control boarding? Also if someone does slip through without a reservation what can they do if they're discovered?

The rest of the website has lots of detail

What can I expect at the station?​

To help manage with the demand, we will be operating a queuing system at both Nottingham and Skegness stations – one for those who have booked in advance and have reserved a space on a service - and one for those who have paid on the day. Our friendly and helpful staff will be able to guide you to the right queue and support you if you don’t have a reservation.

What happens if the train I am trying to book is sold out?​

This will mean that all the spaces on that train have already been reserved. You will not be able to buy an advance ticket for that service. You will be able to by an anytime travel ticket, but you are not guaranteed a place on a specific train.

What happens if I don’t have a reservation and I pay for a ticket on the day?​

In this instance you will need to join the ‘paid on the day’ queue (at Nottingham or Skegness) and will be able to board the train if there is space available. If there are no spaces, you can either board an alternative service to Grantham and change to a rail replacement bus service from Grantham to Skegness and/or Butlins. If you are travelling from Skegness, there will be a rail replacement bus to take you to Grantham, where you can then switch to a train service to Nottingham. The alternative is to wait to see if there is a space on the next direct train, although we can’t guarantee which service you’ll be able to travel on.

 

[Gaelan]

So anytime tickets will be honored, but depending on capacity you might end up on a bus. Seems quite reasonable?

 

[43066]

Given some of the people who use these trains (think extras from Little Britain), and the associated behaviour, this policy probably makes a lot of sense!

Presumably it’s also a reflection of the fact that capacity is lower than in HST days, depending on what they end up running.

 

[ChrisC]

Given some of the people who use these trains (think extras from Little Britain), and the associated behaviour, this policy probably makes a lot of sense!

I feel sorry for the people of Lincolnshire in places like Sleaford, Heckington, Wainfleet etc who also want to use these trains. They are not the type of people who perhaps visit Skegness and as with many parts of Lincolnshire bus services are very sparse.

 

[robbeech]

Presumably it’s also a reflection of the fact that capacity is lower than in HST days, depending on what they end up running.

So why is the capacity lower than it was if the demand is the same?

 

[43066]

I feel sorry for the people of Lincolnshire in places like Sleaford, Heckington, Wainfleet etc who also want to use these trains. They are not the type of people who perhaps visit Skegness and as with many parts of Lincolnshire bus services are very sparse.

Indeed. Albeit they’d equally struggle to board crush loaded trains if the policy wasn’t in place.

So why is the capacity lower than it was if the demand is the same?

Ask the DfT.

 

[12LDA28C]

This is not a new concept. A similar system was used on loco-hauled trains to Great Yarmouth from the Midlands in the early 1990s with haulage cranks having to be quite creative to get round the various restrictions put in place if they wanted to travel behind the rare freight sector locos used.

 

[bramling]

Indeed. Albeit they’d equally struggle to board crush loaded trains if the policy wasn’t in place.

Most of these people will have cars, and rail’s only relevance to them will be something which holds them up at Lincolnshire’s many level crossings.

Since the 1970s rail has been *very* sparse in Lincolnshire. Skegness was lucky to survive.

 

[TheBigD]

For comparison...

2019 when HSTs were used, the service ex Nottingham was...

0745 3 car 153+156/8
0824 8 car HST
0845 3 car 153+156/8
0940 8 car HST
0955 3 car 153+156/8
1045 4 car 156/8+156/8
1145 3 car 153 +156/8

Last year (2022)

0745 3 car 170
0824 5 car 180
0845 4 car 156/8+156/8
0950 5 car 180
0955 4 car 156/8+156/8
1045 4 car 156/8+156/8
1145 4 car 156/8+156/8

"IF" what has been reported for this year is true...

0745 3 car 170
0824 4 car 158+158
0845 3 car 170
0945 4 car 158+158
0956 3 car 170
1045 3 car 170
1145 3 car 170

I will leave others to work out the various differences in seating capacity and luggage space...

 

[Mainline421]

The rest of the website has lots of detail

So not compulsory at all then, thread is clickbait.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

So not compulsory at all then, thread is clickbait.

If they're as busy as 2019 levels when the HSTs were used then they'll probably be pretty much compulsory.
(note: I never actually saw how busy it was when the HSTs were used, but the use itself seems to verify its need)

 

[PeterC]

This is not a new concept. A similar system was used on loco-hauled trains to Great Yarmouth from the Midlands in the early 1990s with haulage cranks having to be quite creative to get round the various restrictions put in place if they wanted to travel behind the rare freight sector locos used.

Various forms of boarding control on busy holiday routes were in use much earlier than that.

 

[ajp999]

Considering we are now within the 12 week booking period how do season ticket holders for example go about reserving a seat on these services for local journeys between Nottingham and Grantham. How will this policy impact availability of advance tickets between Nottingham and London routed via Grantham or Nottingham and the North East / Scotland routed via Grantham. Will school children who use these services be refused access for local journeys without a reservation - schools will still be open in early July and early September when this policy is in place - there is no mention that this policy only applies at weekends so the assumption is that it applies to all services between 9 July and 9 September. I also thought that off-peak tickets could not be used on weekdays until around 0900 so are the busiest times really at 0700 on a weekday.

 

[LowLevel]

For comparison...

2019 when HSTs were used, the service ex Nottingham was...

0745 3 car 153+156/8
0824 8 car HST
0845 3 car 153+156/8
0940 8 car HST
0955 3 car 153+156/8
1045 4 car 156/8+156/8
1145 3 car 153 +156/8

Last year (2022)

0745 3 car 170
0824 5 car 180
0845 4 car 156/8+156/8
0950 5 car 180
1045 4 car 156/8+156/8
1145 4 car 156/8+156/8

"IF" what has been reported for this year is true...

0745 3 car 170
0824 4 car 158+158
0845 3 car 170
0945 4 car 158+158
0956 3 car 170
1045 3 car 170
1145 3 car 170

I will leave others to work out the various differences in seating capacity and luggage space...

The diagrams suggest that the additionals to and from Derby will be 4 car 2 x 170/2.

Suffice to say we are all dreading it.

There's nothing like being a lone guard at somewhere like Boston and Sleaford having abuse hurled at you because you can't get people on a full train, same as places like Heckington which have about one bus every blue moon and depend on the train.

Promising things that aren't deliverable is not sensible. The train crew will not be policing this. You can book at Heckington as recommended by the website and it will make not a jot of difference to your chances of boarding the train. Travel every day all year with your bike to get to a rural establishment? Tough. The dual purpose bike and wheelchair space on the 170 is already full of people using wheelchairs.

As for luggage. Bring one bag. That's the funniest part. No, they'll turn up with person sized suitcases as usual and be rudely awakened when they literally can't fit into a train as a 170 has no room for large cases, when they've been used to 50 of the things being stacked in a 156 Parcels van.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I feel sorry for the people of Lincolnshire in places like Sleaford, Heckington, Wainfleet etc who also want to use these trains. They are not the type of people who perhaps visit Skegness and as with many parts of Lincolnshire bus services are very sparse.

As someone who comes from that part of the world, they try to avoid the trains that are full with Skeg traffic like the plague!

The “Giro” trains (as they were called) on a Thursday or Friday were also ones to avoid. Mums with pushchairs and cans of drink having a day out. It could get a bit loud by the time they got to Sleaford, let alone Boston. You had to see it to believe it.

 

[MadCommuter]

Is the issue a lack of rolling stock or paths? Has a charter company considered earning a few quid?

 

[TheBigD]

Is the issue a lack of rolling stock or paths? Has a charter company considered earning a few quid?

Lack of trains. The 180s that were previously used for the 2 x Derby-Skegness summer Saturday extras are no longer leased by EMR. The extra services have to be resourced from the existing rural fleet of 170s and 158s.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Lack of trains. The 180s that were previously used for the 2 x Derby-Skegness summer Saturday extras are no longer leased by EMR. The extra services have to be resourced from the existing rural fleet of 170s and 158s.

It’s not so much a lack of trains, more a lack of desire/authority to lease trains. DfT could have approved a short term lease extension to the 156s that have gone to store or the 180s.

 

[Russel]

Can EMR not spare a 222?

 

[TheBigD]

It’s not so much a lack of trains, more a lack of desire/authority to lease trains. DfT could have approved a short term lease extension to the 156s that have gone to store or the 180s.

Agree with that though the 156s that have gone for storage are in a bad state.

Can EMR not spare a 222?

Unlikely as there is even less slack in the 222 fleet from May. Don't think that are currently cleared beyond Grantham anyway.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It’s not so much a lack of trains, more a lack of desire/authority to lease trains.

Yep. The quickest way of reducing rail custom is to make the rail service unusable.

Agree with that though the 156s that have gone for storage are in a bad state.

They are, but they’d have done the summer.

 

[TheBigD]

The diagrams suggest that the additionals to and from Derby will be 4 car 2 x 170/2.

Suffice to say we are all dreading it.

There's nothing like being a lone guard at somewhere like Boston and Sleaford having abuse hurled at you because you can't get people on a full train, same as places like Heckington which have about one bus every blue moon and depend on the train.

Promising things that aren't deliverable is not sensible. The train crew will not be policing this. You can book at Heckington as recommended by the website and it will make not a jot of difference to your chances of boarding the train. Travel every day all year with your bike to get to a rural establishment? Tough. The dual purpose bike and wheelchair space on the 170 is already full of people using wheelchairs.

As for luggage. Bring one bag. That's the funniest part. No, they'll turn up with person sized suitcases as usual and be rudely awakened when they literally can't fit into a train as a 170 has no room for large cases, when they've been used to 50 of the things being stacked in a 156 Parcels van.

I don't envy you having to work those services...

 

[30907]

Considering we are now within the 12 week booking period how do season ticket holders for example go about reserving a seat on these services for local journeys between Nottingham and Grantham....
Will school children who use these services be refused access for local journeys without a reservation - schools will still be open in early July and early September when this policy is in place - there is no mention that this policy only applies at weekends so the assumption is that it applies to all services between 9 July and 9 September.

How many of either travel on services later than 0745 ex Notts, which as you say is barred to Offpeak tickets?

 

[danm14]

So anytime tickets will be honored, but depending on capacity you might end up on a bus. Seems quite reasonable?

I wonder will those who end up on a bus be eligible for Delay Repay, or does this announcement that you might be put on a bus if the train is full mean passengers can be classed as being aware of the delay?

 

[zwk500]

Is the issue a lack of rolling stock or paths? Has a charter company considered earning a few quid?

Difficulty for the Charter company will be making sure it only carries the customers with tickets for it's services and no normal tickets, as Charter services aren't allowed to accept them. They also make most of their money on the on-board offering (food and drink) rather than the actual transport fares.

 

[Russel]

Difficulty for the Charter company will be making sure it only carries the customers with tickets for it's services and no normal tickets, as Charter services aren't allowed to accept them. They also make most of their money on the on-board offering (food and drink) rather than the actual transport fares.

I doubt a lot of the passengers on a summer Skegness train know what a ticket looks like...

 

[liamf656]

Can EMR not spare a 222?

If anything, EMR desperately need more intercity stock!

 

[LowLevel]

I doubt a lot of the passengers on a summer Skegness train know what a ticket looks like...

Not true. The very, very vast majority of them buy a ticket for their journey (a surprising number of full fat Off Peak and Anytimes at that) and that is part of the reason, rather rough around the edges, or rather more than the edges in some cases though many of them may be, that it's so annoying that the DfT have just tossed the issue on the "don't give a stuff" pile.

At the end of the day they're families off on holiday and they still deserve more than being crammed in like on the Tube.

The staff at Skegness and the local train crew are rather good at keeping the tickets side of thing in order.

I've been dealing with this stuff for years and it is challenging but it is noticeable how much more pleasant and easy to deal with things are when you have a decent amount of space to play with on the train. The atmosphere is much better. The HSTs were great and have been known to load to over 600. You can't do that with a 3 car 170.

 

[MadCommuter]

Agree with that though the 156s that have gone for storage are in a bad state.

From the sound of things, the proposed stock will take a pounding over the summer anyway.