Skipton - Leicester ticket advice please

[BillyBoy]

Hi
My daughter has an interview in Leicester at 9:00 on Wednesday which might just be doable in the day if she could get up early. However she is going to stay with family in Chesterfield on Tuesday evening. So I would be very grateful for advice on the cheapest way to do Skipton to Chesterfield after school on Tuesday arriving teatime-ish. Chesterfield to Leicester on Wednesday morning and then Leicester all the way back to Skipton on Wednesday mid-afternoon. Other than arriving in Leicester by 9:00am, some flexibility will be required. She does have a 16-25 railcard.
Many thanks.
Billy

 

[Paul Kelly]

The straightforward option, and reasonably good value too, is an Off-Peak Return from Skipton to Leicester, route Via Sheffield, priced at £33.35 with railcard discount. This is valid for overnight break of journey on the outward portion and comes with the very lenient restriction BT, which allows travel on any train departing at 0430 or later - so there will be no problem with a morning peak journey into Leicester.

It might be worth bringing a print-out of the ticket conditions and restrictions in case any unknowledgable staff are encountered on the Wednesday morning who don't realise the ticket is valid (from this forum I am aware that East Midlands Trains staff have a bit of a reputation). A printout from the link to BRfares.com as linked to above, while it can't be considered to be official, will at least correspond to the information in any guard or inspector's ticket machine should they look the fare up, which should hopefully remove any faint potential for confrontation that there might be.

 

[BillyBoy]

Thank you very much Indigo2 that is indeed more reasonable than I feared it would be.

 

[30907]

Just worth saying that through travel on the Wednesday morning involves a 7-minute connection in Leeds which is below the 10-minute connection time there.
(It's undoubtedly do-able in practice but you'd fall foul of the rule on anycompensation claim - and anyway it's an interview!)

 

[island]

The straightforward option, and reasonably good value too, is an Off-Peak Return from Skipton to Leicester, route Via Sheffield, priced at £33.35 with railcard discount. This is valid for overnight break of journey on the outward portion and comes with the very lenient restriction BT, which allows travel on any train departing at 0430 or later - so there will be no problem with a morning peak journey into Leicester.

It might be worth bringing a print-out of the ticket conditions and restrictions in case any unknowledgable staff are encountered on the Wednesday morning who don't realise the ticket is valid (from this forum I am aware that East Midlands Trains staff have a bit of a reputation). A printout from the link to BRfares.com as linked to above, while it can't be considered to be official, will at least correspond to the information in any guard or inspector's ticket machine should they look the fare up, which should hopefully remove any faint potential for confrontation that there might be.

It is arguable that an off-peak return ticket is not valid for overnight break of journey in this instance as the journey can reasonably be completed in the one day. I would not try to argue it, but an EMT guard might.

 

[transmanche]

It is arguable that an off-peak return ticket is not valid for overnight break of journey in this instance as the journey can reasonably be completed in the one day. I would not try to argue it, but an EMT guard might.

The ticket is valid for break of journey on both outward and return legs.

 

[island]

I am not arguing that. But the outbound half of an off-peak return ticket will show that it is valid for only one day.

 

[transmanche]

I am not arguing that. But the outbound half of an off-peak return ticket will show that it is valid for only one day.

But the relevant condition says:

Off-Peak Singles and the outward portion of Off-Peak Returns are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket. Where a passenger wishes to stop overnight or the journey cannot be completed within one day, break of journey for an overnight stay is allowed.​

(My highlighting.)

So whether or not the journey can "reasonably be completed in one day", the passenger is entitled to break the journey overnight - provided they resume the journey before 12:00 the next day and observe any other time restrictions.

 

[yorkie]

The problem is that the rules changed, were not updated consistently, then changed again (because apparently the rules did not change to remove our rights and any removal of our rights was an oversight/mistake) and people still aren't sure what the new rules are meant to be.

Various sources list a variety of different rules, and when I looked it up on National Rail Enquiries I wasn't able to see any mention of an overnight break, let alone what the rules on it are!

 

[BillyBoy]

Oh dear. I'm worried now. If it were me travelling I would be prepared to stand my ground. But my daughter is travelling alone and I don't want her to have any trouble. Perhaps it might be better if someone could please advise me on the next most reasonably priced ticket that won't be open to interpretation? Thanks again. Billy

 

[cuccir]

Well a Skipton-Chesterfield Anytime Return is £16.85 with Railcard
Chesterfield-Derby Anytime Day Return is £12 with Railcard before 10:00
Leicester-Derby Anytime Day Return is £11.90 (no railcard discount available before 10:00)

None of those tickets have any time restriction.

That's £40.35, but the extra £7 buys you that piece of mind!

Her morning train would have to stop at Derby which I think all trains from Chesterfield-Leciester do.

Similarly, her return train from Leicester would need to stop in both Derby and Chesterfield. All Leicester-Sheffeild trains stop at both Derby and Chesterfield, while all of the direct Derby-Leeds trains EXCEPT the 17:12 stop at Chesterfield.

 

[jkdd77]

Has the OP considered e-mailing EMT, pointing to the extract from the T & Cs quoted by transmanche, and asking for confirmation that the outward portion of the Off-Peak Return will indeed be accepted on the 'second' morning from Chesterfield following a voluntary overnight break of journey?

An e-mail (or letter) from EMT Customer Services confirming that the ticket is indeed valid in these circumstances ought to be sufficient for any on-train or barrier staff.

 

[BillyBoy]

Thanks both, I'll email EMT now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK, so EMT have emailed back to say no the overnight stay would not be permitted. Apparently the off-peak ticket conditions from BR Fares quoted above are not the same as those in the National Fares Manual or on the National Rail Enquiries website.

In what I think is the equivalent sentence, the National Rail Enquiries website says "Off-Peak Singles and the outward portion of Off-Peak Returns are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following morning. If the journey cannot be completed in this time, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day."

 

[bb21]

Well a Skipton-Chesterfield Anytime Return is £16.85 with Railcard
Chesterfield-Derby Anytime Day Return is £12 with Railcard before 10:00
Leicester-Derby Anytime Day Return is £11.90 (no railcard discount available before 10:00)

None of those tickets have any time restriction.

That's £40.35, but the extra £7 buys you that piece of mind!

If we are considering the option of splitting at Chesterfield, then Retford - Leicester Route Via Sheffield Off-Peak Return (£19.85) has the same BT restriction and is valid for starting short at Chesterfield.

This brings the total down to £36.70
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In what I think is the equivalent sentence, the National Rail Enquiries website says "Off-Peak Singles and the outward portion of Off-Peak Returns are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following morning. If the journey cannot be completed in this time, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day."

This is what I believe to be the correct version of the current terms.

If your daughter can arrive at Chesterfield no earlier than 2156 on Tuesday night, she can legitimately stay overnight at Chesterfield and continue her journey south the following day on the same ticket as she would not be able to complete her journey on the day of travel.

 

[BillyBoy]

Thank you bb21. Why does BR fares not have the correct version of the current terms? About the Retford option, having ruled out the first suggestion in this thread because it's open to interpretation, am I in danger of pursuing another? My daughter has to be in Leicester by 09:00 so she would probably get the 07:55 from Chesterfield which will have left Sheffield at 07:41. However the first train from Retford doesn't arrive in Sheffield until 07:48!

 

[bb21]

Why does BR fares not have the correct version of the current terms?!

Although the rules have been revised, as mentioned further up this thread, these changes have not been incorporated into the different sources of information in a consistent manner. I would hazard a guess that the database where brfares fetch their data has not been properly updated with the latest restriction texts.

About the Retford option, having ruled out the first suggestion in this thread because it's open to interpretation, am I in danger of pursuing another? My daughter has to be in Leicester by 09:00 so she would probably get the 07:55 from Chesterfield which will have left Sheffield at 07:41. However the first train from Retford doesn't arrive in Sheffield until 07:48!

You are permitted to start short on this ticket, therefore there is no compulsion to have started your journey at Retford. There is no second interpretation regarding this issue.

 

[BillyBoy]

Fantastic, that's the one then. Thank you again bb21.

 

[bb21]

You're most welcome.