Sleeper Services Past and Present

[Dave1954]

With all of the sleeper services running in the good old days, there must have been a lot of platforms in the London termini filled with sleepers every morning.

The very early arrivals into Euston the sleeping carriages were taken off the rear and shunted into platform 15 , sleeping passengers included , where they can all vacant together around 730am .
regards Dave1954

 

[falcon]

I did a Plymouth - Glasgow sleeper from Taunton c.1989. After a few pints of Guinness I fell asleep and the next thing i knew, we were passing Carstairs.

When did cross Country sleeps cease? 1989!

 

[Dave1954]

I think it was 1990 but i`ll stand to be corrected

 

[thenorthern]

I know there were some CrossCountry sleepers as they had to stop at Bromsgrove to attach a banking locomotive for the Lickey Incline and at the time it was one of only 6 trains per day to stop there.

 

[Helvellyn]

When did cross Country sleeps cease? 1989!

The 1994 Platform 5 combined volume shows that Polmadie had 14 SLEPs (SLeeper Either class with Pantry) allocated to the CrossCountry sub-sector. The only route still running if I recall was the service to Plymouth although I can't recall if it was Edinburgh and/or Glasgow. To Plymouth it was the Night West Countryman but the title from Plymouth was different for some reason (and I can't recall it!).

It could well have been the Glasgow/Edinburgh to Poole service that was withdrawn around 1990.

If I recall the only reason the CrossCountry route didn't survive was because it didn't have a natural fit at Privatisation. Whilst the London-Scotland services had political backing (as I suppose did the Night Riveria) and were transferred from InterCity to ScotRail I guess ScotRail taking on the Plymouth service too just didn't have anyone giving it serious backing.

 

[zaax]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Ferry

Also there was a sleeper boat train from Liverpool Street via Harwich to the continent
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110515

 

[theblackwatch]

I'm 99% sure the XC sleeper trains didn't run as recently as 1994, pretty sure they ceased around 1989/90. What were the identities of the coaches shows as being in the Cross Country fleet?

 

[thenorthern]

I don't remember a CrossCountry sleeper train in the 1990s but there may have been one. You have got to remember though pre-Virgin Cross Country and pre-Voyagers the service was at irregular times with no fixed route. For example I know the Aberdeen to Penzance train used to run Aberdeen-Edinburgh-Carlisle-Manchester-Stoke-Birmingham-Bristol-Penzance. Also then the journey times were much more so it would be more useful to have a sleeper train.

 

[Flying Snail]

I'm 99% sure the XC sleeper trains didn't run as recently as 1994, pretty sure they ceased around 1989/90. What were the identities of the coaches shows as being in the Cross Country fleet?

At 99-1 odds I'd definitely take that bet.

1994 is probably correct, the Edinburgh-Glasgow-Plymouth was still running up to Oct 93 but was gone by the commencement of the Sep 94 timetable.

The Poole portion from Edinburgh and Glasgow was still running up to Sep 91 and it was also separate trains from both Scottish cities, presumably it was when the Poole went the remaining Plymouth service went GLC-EDB-PLY with a rather early 21.30 departure from GLC.

The London-Scotland sleepers were also beginning their rationalisation by 93 with Fort William and Inverness portions running as one but Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen still separate trains. The Edinburgh was sleeper only at that time with the Aberdeen having seats for London-Edinburgh passengers with a nice early 04.33 arrival.

It really is a shame that the cross country sleeper got dumped and that the remaining London services were rationalised into 2 trains, it would have left much more room for expansion.

 

[crewmeal]

When I was at boarding school in Hatch End I used to see many sleepers come and go. The one I looked out for was The Royal Highlander.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Highlander

 

[daodao]

At 99-1 odds I'd definitely take that bet.

1994 is probably correct, the Edinburgh-Glasgow-Plymouth was still running up to Oct 93 but was gone by the commencement of the Sep 94 timetable.

The Poole portion from Edinburgh and Glasgow was still running up to Sep 91 and it was also separate trains from both Scottish cities, presumably it was when the Poole went the remaining Plymouth service went GLC-EDB-PLY with a rather early 21.30 departure from GLC.

The London-Scotland sleepers were also beginning their rationalisation by 93 with Fort William and Inverness portions running as one but Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen still separate trains. The Edinburgh was sleeper only at that time with the Aberdeen having seats for London-Edinburgh passengers with a nice early 04.33 arrival.

It really is a shame that the cross country sleeper got dumped and that the remaining London services were rationalised into 2 trains, it would have left much more room for expansion.

I travelled from Bristol to Glasgow and Glasgow to Southampton by sleeper in 1992, the last time that I have used sleeping cars. The loss of this cross-country facility is regrettable because it now requires one to travel the day before (often leaving before 1800) for early appointments in more distant parts of the UK.

 

[Mikey C]

I travelled from Bristol to Glasgow and Glasgow to Southampton by sleeper in 1992, the last time that I have used sleeping cars. The loss of this cross-country facility is regrettable because it now requires one to travel the day before (often leaving before 1800) for early appointments in more distant parts of the UK.

I can't imagine usage was very good for such services though

Indeed throughout Europe, sleeper services are being decimated with faster day trains, budget airlines and dare I saw it, changes in custom.

 

[Requeststop]

I did a Plymouth - Glasgow sleeper from Taunton c.1989. After a few pints of Guinness I fell asleep and the next thing i knew, we were passing Carstairs.

I did the Bristol - Glasgow sleeper in the mid eighties. Leaving St Erth at around 5p.m. to connect. Cannot think why I couldn't get a Plymouth -Glasgow Sleeper at that time. I certainly would have done if I could.

 

[camperdown9]

3: 1986. Newcastle to King X. Mk3. Was rather pointless, but did it for the hell of it. You were supposed to get a lie in at KingsX, but when we boarded my friend pushed the attendant call button by mistake and our cards were marked. Woken up on arrival and kicked off. I do remember being sat at Darlington for an age.

In the 1st June 1981 to 16th May 1982 it shows the following timetable between Newcastle and London.

Newcastle 2255
London Kings cross (vacate berths by) 0730

London Kings cross 0100
Newcastle (vacate berths by) 0800

However there is also a second service that seams to operate sound bound only.

Newcastle 0054
London Kings cross (vacate berths by) 0730
There is a note next to it saying "berths not reservable until after 1600 on the day prior to travel)

Does anyone know anything about this second service?
Any ideas why reservations didn't open until the day before?

Thanks

Alex

 

[dk1]

I think it was Summer 1993 when I used the XC sleeper from Newton Abbot to Glasgow after a day on the ale around Torbay. Still in the lounge car at New St & very very rough the next morning

 

[47271]

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=1175

You can learn quite a bit about the nature of internal Scottish sleepers of the era in this report into an unfortunate incident that happened at Pitlochry in September 1983.

 

[camperdown9]

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=1175

You can learn quite a bit about the nature of internal Scottish sleepers of the era in this report into an unfortunate incident that happened at Pitlochry in September 1983.

thanks for this!

 

[47271]

Here are a few forum threads that may be useful, I just remember contributing to them here and there with a note or two on sleepers past and present -

Cross country sleepers:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131625

Local sleeper coaches attached to other services, for example Carlisle:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131303

Oban sleeper:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=124163

Caledonian Sleeper diverted to King's Cross, Jan 2016:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=125678

Sleepers and Motorail:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119384

 

[30907]

In the 1st June 1981 to 16th May 1982 it shows the following timetable between Newcastle and London.

Newcastle 0054
London Kings cross (vacate berths by) 0730
There is a note next to it saying "berths not reservable until after 1600 on the day prior to travel)

Does anyone know anything about this second service?
Any ideas why reservations didn't open until the day before?

Thanks

Alex

It was through from Scotland and I imagine management wanted to prioritise those passengers.

 

[Hornet]

Fond memories of rattling up the WCML on the cushions, in a corridor MK1 on a sleeper/seated services on a Friday night in the 70's. Bailing out at Crewe in the early hours and watching the Friday night/Saturday morning Holiday extras to the West Country pulling into Crewe, and watching the mad rush to the 24 Hours Travellers Fare Emporium on the Platform. Then off to the Cambrian Coast on the overnight York Aberystwyth, or down the Welsh Marshes on the early morning services to Cardiff, or change at Shrewsbury for the stupid o'clock Central Wales service.

You could more often than not be lucky to get a compartment all to yourself on a Manchester/Liverpool or Glasgow sleeper/seated service (on a Friday night as well). I'm sure I wasn't the only one who would turn the lights to dim (there was a switch in the compartment), pull all the blinds down and then take the bulbs out of the fittings, place them on the overhead luggage netting and crash, (not forgetting to put the bulbs back on arrival)

Travelled on many an overnight sleeper/seated service in the 70's/early 80's. (London to Leeds, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Perth, Aberdeen, Inverness, Fort William, Manchester, Penzance. Glasgow to Inverness. Glasgow to Bristol), plus a few overnight seated only. (Bristol to Milford Haven, Crewe to Aberystwyth, Manchester to Cleethorpes, Glasgow to Oban and Crewe to Cardiff). Train travel was much more fun in those days!

 

[30907]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Ferry

Also there was a sleeper boat train from Liverpool Street via Harwich to the continent
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110515

You slept on the boat not the train though! As you still do.

 

[341o2]

I remember Paddington - St Austell 1970's which included motorail and Paddington to Penzance 1980's

 

[PeterC]

Train travel was much more fun in those days!

I agree, the overnight services depended on the synergy of needing the trains in place to carry mail and papers.

I remember travelling to North Wales overnight once with the morning papers following us, changing at Crewe and Llandudno Junction then bus from Ffestiniog. The last of the newspapers was dropped off at Trawsfynydd village and we got off at breakfast time about 10 minutes walk from the cottage we were staying in.

Drifting off topic slightly the use of rail for newspaper distribution meant that the early editions were available at the London terminii as you went home from a night out on the "milk train".

 

[theageofthetra]

You slept on the boat not the train though! As you still do.

Didn't 1st class passengers remain in the sleeping berths on the Night Ferry whilst the others were turfed out onto the ship?

 

[PeterC]

Didn't 1st class passengers remain in the sleeping berths on the Night Ferry whilst the others were turfed out onto the ship?

The post you refer to is about the Harwich - Hook overnight crossing. The Night Ferry used Dover - Dunkirk.

The Night Ferry only had first class sleeping berths. Passengers with 2nd class tickets only had seats and had to walk on to the ferry.

 

[LeylandLen]

I seem to remember in the 70s an overnight train from Glasgow/Edinburgh ( two portions) to Inverness. I was in my youth , the good old days ! , so didn't mind sleeping in the seats. I do recall sleeping cars on the train with a similar working in the opposite direction.

 

[Dave1954]

I seem to remember in the 70s an overnight train from Glasgow/Edinburgh ( two portions) to Inverness. I was in my youth , the good old days ! , so didn't mind sleeping in the seats. I do recall sleeping cars on the train with a similar working in the opposite direction.

Yes ... I done the southbound once 00.50 off Inverness I think , got into Edinburgh around 7.30am

 

[Railops]

I seem to remember in the 70s an overnight train from Glasgow/Edinburgh ( two portions) to Inverness. I was in my youth , the good old days ! , so didn't mind sleeping in the seats. I do recall sleeping cars on the train with a similar working in the opposite direction.

Yes that's right, went on it about 6 times.

 

[Taunton]

I seem to remember in the 70s an overnight train from Glasgow/Edinburgh ( two portions) to Inverness. I was in my youth , the good old days ! , so didn't mind sleeping in the seats. I do recall sleeping cars on the train with a similar working in the opposite direction.

I was in Scotland in the 1970s as well, and a colleague was sent by the office a couple of times on the sleeper from Edinburgh to Inverness, and she inadvertently gave me some insight into the operation! ECML and WCML sleepers were all allocated to the ER and LMR, but the ScR had an internal allocation of just 5 Sleeper Composites, using one car each from Edinburgh and from Glasgow to Inverness, joining at Perth, with one car spare (the English cars used to help out if needed). First class was single compartment, second class two to a compartment, but she said that although booked second she always had the compartment to herself anyway as there was never another sole female passenger. The attendants changed over where the trains crossed, and returned to base each night. There were all sorts of local arrangements for the limited accommodation, and once returning to Edinburgh the car was full but she was put in the Glasgow car and had her ticket endorsed to continue from Queen St to Edinburgh. The night inspector at Perth apparently would sometimes do a sweep of the cars to reconcile bookings with occupied berths to ensure the attendants had not made "personal" direct arrangements without officially recording the supplement

 

[Helvellyn]

I'm 99% sure the XC sleeper trains didn't run as recently as 1994, pretty sure they ceased around 1989/90. What were the identities of the coaches shows as being in the Cross Country fleet?

10530R d RIR ICCRX PC
10531R d RIR ICCRX PC
10532R d RIR ICCRX PC
10535R d RIR ICCRX PC
10537R d RIR ICCRX PC
10546R d RIR ICCRX PC
10549R d RIR ICCXR PC
10554R d RIR ICCRX PC
10563R d RIR ICCRX PC
10566R d RIR ICCXR PC
10572R d RIR ICCRX PC
10580R d RIR ICCRX PC
10594R d RIR ICCRX PC
10601R d RIR ICCRX PC
10602R d RIR ICCXR PC

d - fitted with secondary door locks
I - InterCity livery
ICCX - InterCity CrossCountry / ICCR - InterCity CrossCountry Refurbished
PC - Polmadie