Small Layover in London

[Butts]

I have a couple of Virgin Advanced First Class Tickets from Sandwell & Dudley to Gatwick Airport purchased in conjunction with a two together railcard.

This covers us for the journey into Euston and onto Victoria via the Underground and then to Gatwick on the Gatwick Express.

I have not retrieved the tickets yet but I suspect the only "timed" part of the ticket will be the S&D to Euston portion.

Will I get away with spending a couple of hours in London and then going onto Victoria and Gatwick a bit later.

 

[BluePenguin]

Yes, that is absolutely fine so long as the leg from Victoria to Gatwick is NOT reservable. If you have "VTWC& connections" as the route on your tickets then the Gatwick leg is most certainly your "connection" so you can explore London to your hearts content. Otherwise the answer is probably no.

 

[horizonflame]

When you say "Advanced" is it an off-peak ticket you have bought in advance of your journey or an Advance ticket for booked train only?

 

[Butts]

When you say "Advanced" is it an off-peak ticket you have bought in advance of your journey or an Advance ticket for booked train only?

"Advance Single First Class- Only valid on booked Virgin Trains Services and required connecting services. Non- refundable ticket, only valid for the date, times and trains specified"

I suspect the Gatwick Express portion will not be timed or specified.

 

[BluePenguin]

"Advance Single First Class- Only valid on booked Virgin Trains Services and required connecting services. Non- refundable ticket, only valid for the date, times and trains specified"

I suspect the Gatwick Express portion will not be timed or specified.

In that case my first post is correct. You are free to explore London as your connecting service to Gatwick is not restricted. Have a good time!

 

[island]

Break of journey is not allowable on an advance ticket.

I will leave it as an exercise how enforceable this condition is.

 

[BluePenguin]

Break of journey is not allowable on an advance ticket.

I will leave it as an exercise how enforceable this condition is.

Yes, that is correct. However the OP is not breaking their journey on the part of the advanced ticket which requires them to travel on a specific train. Had the leg to Gatwick been reservable they would need to go straight to Gatwick to catch the train leaving at the time written on their ticket

 

[ji459]

I've never had a problem in the past with taking an earlier or later connecting train, however the ticket re-design (printing connecting services on advance tickets) has arguably taken away that flexibility:

Under condition 13.1 of the Conditions of Travel, "Some Tickets, particularly advance Tickets, require you to travel on a specific train service or services, or the services of a particular Train Company or Companies. We will make these conditions clear to you when you purchase your Ticket." If a connecting train is printed on the ticket, then on the face of it travel must be on that train.

The National Rail website is consistent with this and says "Tickets are valid ONLY on the date and train service(s) shown on the ticket(s)" and "If the ‘Route’ also states ‘and Connections’, travel is allowed on appropriate connecting trains where shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary."

Yes, that is correct. However the OP is not breaking their journey on the part of the advanced ticket which requires them to travel on a specific train. Had the leg to Gatwick been reservable they would need to go straight to Gatwick to catch the train leaving at the time written on their ticket

I had always assumed the same, but according to the NR website the prohibition on break of journey makes no distinction between "reservable" trains and connecting trains: "You may not start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station except to change to/from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary."

 

[bb21]

Stopping off for a few hours in London not for the purpose of interchange is quite clearly "breaking" one's journey.

But the whole discussion is academic due to limited enforceability and I doubt GTR would care.

 

[ji459]

But the whole discussion is academic

Like about 99% of the discussions on here

 

[Butts]

Stopping off for a few hours in London not for the purpose of interchange is quite clearly "breaking" one's journey.

But the whole discussion is academic due to limited enforceability and I doubt GTR would care.

I take it from that our tickets will work in the barriers on the Undergound at Euston and mainline at Victoria when we restart our "broken journey" a few hours later than scheduled.

 

[Kite159]

Stopping off for a few hours in London not for the purpose of interchange is quite clearly "breaking" one's journey.

But the whole discussion is academic due to limited enforceability and I doubt GTR would care.

Until the ticket doesn't open the gold plated barriers at Victoria P13 & 14 and the Red Police look at the ticket and ask questions at why it's taken you so long to reach Victoria from Euston (as some of them make the barrier staff at Blackpool & Euston seem kind)

 

[yorkie]

Yes, that is correct. However the OP is not breaking their journey on the part of the advanced ticket which requires them to travel on a specific train. Had the leg to Gatwick been reservable they would need to go straight to Gatwick to catch the train leaving at the time written on their ticket

Technically the journey from Sandwell & Dudley to Gatwick cannot be broken anywhere, including in London. There have been numerous threads on this before.

It would be allowable to have a leisurely 3-course meal at one of the pubs/restaurants within Euston/Victoria and/or you could make the transfer by foot (or go the long way round on the London Underground Circle Line), but if your overall cross-London transfer time is excessively long, staff may ask questions and there would come a point where you'd not really be able to deny a break of journey has obviously occurred. What point that would be, I cannot say.

I am not sure if the ticket will open the gates at platforms 13/14. If it does not, and a potentially excessive time has elapsed between arrival at EUS and appearing at the VIC gateline, then my advice would be to try the ticket at a gateline at one of the other platforms. This is because some of GTR's platform 13/14 gateline take a very hard line to tickets and display a rather unfriendly attitude, compared to their staff at other platforms.

 

[Butts]

Technically the journey from Sandwell & Dudley to Gatwick cannot be broken anywhere, including in London. There have been numerous threads on this before.

It would be allowable to have a leisurely 3-course meal at one of the pubs/restaurants within Euston/Victoria and/or you could make the transfer by foot (or go the long way round on the London Underground Circle Line), but if your overall cross-London transfer time is excessively long, staff may ask questions and there would come a point where you'd not really be able to deny a break of journey has obviously occurred. What point that would be, I cannot say.

I am not sure if the ticket will open the gates at platforms 13/14. If it does not, and a potentially excessive time has elapsed between arrival at EUS and appearing at the VIC gateline, then my advice would be to try the ticket at a gateline at one of the other platforms. This is because some of GTR's platform 13/14 gateline take a very hard line to tickets and display a rather unfriendly attitude, compared to their staff at other platforms.

Thanks for that - I'm going to retrieve the tickets from the machine in Newport today and see exactly what it says on them.

Will report back when in posession of the material facts- good idea about the meal though could easily last a couple of hours !!

 

[Tetchytyke]

A lot of the Southern and GatEx trains to Gatwick have counted-place reservations (for their own advances) so there's a strong chance you'll be on a specific booked train from Victoria. If that happens, even with a counted place reservation, taking a different train will be problematic.

 

[Butts]

A lot of the Southern and GatEx trains to Gatwick have counted-place reservations (for their own advances) so there's a strong chance you'll be on a specific booked train from Victoria. If that happens, even with a counted place reservation, taking a different train will be problematic.

Well the moment you have all been waiting for....

Advance Single 1st

From Sandwell & Dudley

To Gatwick Airport

Valid on 08-Mch-18

"Valid only on the booked services below and required connecting services"
Sandwell & Dudley -> London Euston
08-MCH-18 10.55 : Coach J Seat 32

As far as I can see it would be quite legitimate to enjoy a stopover. There is no specified service to Gatwick from Victoria on the ticket." Required connecting services" is surely just that and not a particular one. It has the cross for the Underground as well.

 

[Merseysider]

Personally, I think BoJ restrictions ought to be done away with, except in clear-cut cases of abusing cheap Advance fares for much shorter journeys.

Bear in mind you can use the First Class lounge at Euston, legitimately, for an hour after your inbound arrival. That wouldn’t be a break of journey.

Cycling to Victoria takes about half an hour. That wouldn’t be a break of journey.

You could also spend two hours “at” the Wetherspoons inside Victoria station. That wouldn’t be breaking your journey either.

I’ll leave it at that

 

[greyman42]

Until the ticket doesn't open the gold plated barriers at Victoria P13 & 14 and the Red Police look at the ticket and ask questions at why it's taken you so long to reach Victoria from Euston (as some of them make the barrier staff at Blackpool & Euston seem kind)

Just say that you are a bit thick and got lost.

 

[Butts]

Personally, I think BoJ restrictions ought to be done away with, except in clear-cut cases of abusing cheap Advance fares for much shorter journeys.

Bear in mind you can use the First Class lounge at Euston, legitimately, for an hour after your inbound arrival. That wouldn’t be a break of journey.

Cycling to Victoria takes about half an hour. That wouldn’t be a break of journey.

You could also spend two hours “at” the Wetherspoons inside Victoria station. That wouldn’t be breaking your journey either.

I’ll leave it at that

Hmm.. three hours more than enough time to visit the Royal Mail Museum !!!

Seriously if they were that concerned about breaking journeys there is room on the ticket to have printed the Victoria to Gatwick leg underneath the SAD to EUS bit.

"Valid only on the booked services below" - SAD to EUS bit is the only "booked service" shown. As I said before "required connecting services" does not specify any time or indeed service ( the booking was Gatwick Express on the Virgin Site)

 

[Butts]

Just say that you are a bit thick and got lost.

I don't need to open my mouth for them to deduct the above !!!

 

[Butts]

A lot of the Southern and GatEx trains to Gatwick have counted-place reservations (for their own advances) so there's a strong chance you'll be on a specific booked train from Victoria. If that happens, even with a counted place reservation, taking a different train will be problematic.

Well for anyone out there thinking of a BOJ on a Virgin West Coast and connections Advanced 1st Class Ticket from SAD to Gatwick fear not !!!

Got into Euston at 1230 and broke journey to visit The Royal Mail Museum instead of carrying straight onto Gatwick via Tube and Gatwick Express.

Returned to Euston about 3.30pm and restarted trip. Tickets worked ok in Underground Barriers. Arrived at Victoria to connect with The Gatwick Express - Tickets did not work at barrier but waved through by staff with no question about delayed departure. Tickets also checked in 1st on Gatwick Express by Guard - no problem.

New Gatwick Express fitted out by "beldray" not a patch on the old 1st Class - only advantage is getting a seat !!!

 

[yorkie]

Well for anyone out there thinking of a BOJ on a Virgin West Coast and connections Advanced 1st Class Ticket from SAD to Gatwick fear not !!!

But are you promising to refund anyone who is ever charged an excess fare by GTR for breaking their journey? OK so it is unlikely, but it could happen.

Tickets also checked in 1st on Gatwick Express by Guard - no problem.

GTR don't have Guards on these trains. They are on board supervisors.

New Gatwick Express fitted out by "beldray" not a patch on the old 1st Class - only advantage is getting a seat !!!

GTR 1st class is well known for being generally not materially any different to Standard class.