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Smart Motorways, is it time to end them?

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krus_aragon

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Even if you dropped a gear? That's seriously underpowered if so (or faulty, as a 1.4 is a fairly large petrol engine for a small car like a C3). Any modern car that can't maintain 70 throughout the motorway and main A-road network with 4 people in it is frankly an unfit-for-purpose heap of junk.
Yes: with a gear drop, foot down, and a full car of five passengers, I'd expect to be hovering around 60 near the crest of Rhuallt (typically having taken a bit of a run-up on the approach.) And I wouldn't necessarily be the slowest car going up there either.

Either way, I've parted ways with that 20-year-old car, now.

I've not driven over that, only gone by bus, but I don't recall it being that steep, so any car having that much trouble with it again is seriously underpowered. Buses do typically have trouble with it, but most UK buses are underpowered (the Swiss have no such problems).
The Crimea (southbound) has a 12% gradient near its base, but after a series of curves that make it challenging to carry a lot of speed into it. (This is the part with a crawler lane, post the 2008 improvement works.) But it's the fact that it eases into a long climb afterward that makes it a killer: I'd often have to drop down again to 3rd in order to keep above 40mph in the C3 with passengers, or if there was
slower traffic in front.

I surprised myself in the Zafira by clearing it solo at 50mph with only one gear drop (6th-5th) last Monday, without really giving it the beans. The next day I was on the ball and kept it to 60 throughout the climb, but I was lucky to have no traffic ahead of me. ( I live in the land of caravans and motorhomes, and off the dual carriageway they're a serious speed limiter.)
 
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dakta

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Eh?

What you describe has you in the right hand lane doing a lower speed than the vehicles in the left hand lane.

If this happens you must move left at the first opportunity.

You should not be in a lane other than Lane 1 unless you are actively in the process of overtaking a vehicle. As soon as you have finished this, including allowing a proper braking distance for both the overtaken vehicle and yourself, it is time to pull back in. If you decide to slow, for any reason at all, and as a result of this are no longer overtaking, pull left.

This is especially important on a two-lane road like the one you describe because by sitting there you cause an obstruction. It's not a fast lane and a slow lane. It's a driving lane and an overtaking lane.


+1. If you're not overtaking then your obstructing. If someone's passing on the left on this scenario it's because they can or ate willing to faster and can't do it because you're there. Pull over
 

bramling

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+1. If you're not overtaking then your obstructing. If someone's passing on the left on this scenario it's because they can or ate willing to faster and can't do it because you're there. Pull over

It’s only obstructing the type of idiots who are incapable of reading more that six inches in front of their nose.
 

dakta

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That may be the case but now we're trying to justify obstructing

Just to add, I don't know this particular patch of road but assuming it's a 2 lane motorway/dc with a rising gradient if someone did hang back in the right lane to get a bit of a run up they would likely be a pain in my butt as I'd have to either hang back with them not to undertake, undertake, which whilst I'll do is a pain, and if there's someone slow in front of me you will then occupy the space I'd move into to get past so you're boxed in, if the person in the right therefore has space to move into by going a bit faster (and we're not talking unreasonably small gaps here as that'd be stupid) then I'd say the lack of foresight is on the person in the right as they are having an impact on me on the left.

If that makes sense. If you are chosing to go slower than the flow of traffic on the left and have a enlargening gap thats > than your safe stopping distance you should, broadly speaking be on the left.
 
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PeterC

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That may be the case but now we're trying to justify obstructing

Just to add, I don't know this particular patch of road but assuming it's a 2 lane motorway/dc with a rising gradient if someone did hang back in the right lane to get a bit of a run up they would likely be a pain in my butt as I'd have to either hang back with them not to undertake, undertake, which whilst I'll do is a pain, and if there's someone slow in front of me you will then occupy the space I'd move into to get past so you're boxed in, if the person in the right therefore has space to move into by going a bit faster (and we're not talking unreasonably small gaps here as that'd be stupid) then I'd say the lack of foresight is on the person in the right as they are having an impact on me on the left.

If that makes sense.
We were talking specifically about approaching a lane drop not about plain motorway driving
 

dakta

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Take the A1(M) between Welwyn and Stevenage, which is a pretty notorious section of 2-lane motorway.

Going south, there's an incline just south of Stevenage which combined with being located just south of a junction, results in a lot of traffic bunching. Hang back a little to get a run up the incline, and you *will* be undertaken by some doltz who then cuts in front and messes up your attempt to maintain speed up the incline.
Sorry, missed the lane drop peice

Where is this incline exactly? Had a quick skeggy at google maps and can't find anything a corsa 1.2 with a bit of luggage and passengers couldn't laugh at
 
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bramling

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Sorry, missed the lane drop peice

Where is this incline exactly? Had a quick skeggy at google maps and can't find anything a corsa 1.2 with a bit of luggage and passengers couldn't laugh at

There’s two bits I was referring to. The short but sharp incline is about 3/4 mile south of junction 7. The lane gain is about 1/2 mile north of junction 6. Both on the southbound side.
 

dakta

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Yeah I saw the extra lane pop up out of nowhere on maps (gain/drop doesn't matter) for the sake of clarity my post refers to the incline.
 

Jamesrob637

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Anybody driven the M6 in Staffordshire within the past month able to update on the speed limits?
 

Jamesrob637

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60 but at least 4 lanes are open both ways J14-J15. Not long to go now until it's all back to normal.
 

Jimini

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Pretty damning article in the Tele:


Smart motorways given green light after bosses turned 'blind eye' to safety fears​

Whistleblower claims National Highways suffered 'systemic cultural failure' when told of staff concerns

BySteve Bird21 May 2022 • 9:00pm

National Highways was responsible for turning hard shoulders into live lanes by creating 'smart motorways'

The M3 smart motorway in Surrey. National Highways was responsible for turning hard shoulders into live lanes by creating 'smart motorways' CREDIT: Steve Parsons
Smart motorways were given the go-ahead because National Highways bosses turned a “blind eye” to safety fears, a whistleblower has claimed as he released a dossier of classified documents.
A senior engineer has said the Government-owned company responsible for turning hard shoulders into live lanes suffered a “systemic cultural failure” when told of staff concerns over safety.
The National Highways employee also accused successive government ministers of failing to widen motorways because they feared the “Swampy effect” - environmental activists, like Swampy from the 1990s, who fought road building with high-profile tunnel and treetop protests.
The whistleblower handed files from 2012 onwards to The Telegraph to illustrate how staff lodged safety warnings while other documents show how smart motorways could cut costs while increasing road capacity.
One leaked document warns how scrapping the hard shoulder could hamper emergency services’ efforts to reach life and death crashes.
In a review of a safety report about the M25 becoming "smart", an engineer wrote that it was “inaccurate” to believe fire, police and ambulance response times would not be affected.
He added: “There must be a higher risk of not being able to reach an incident scene with no hard shoulder to use.”
The "response" section from bosses reads, “access is achieved by closing lanes using [Red X] signals.”
But the same report records “significant concerns” that Red X signs closing lanes to traffic could be ignored, with an engineer writing that “it only takes a few drivers not to comply and other drivers think it is acceptable to drive under a Red X and will follow”.

Failure to educate drivers about new motorways​

Another file about the M25 raised concerns that more needed to be done to educate the public about the shift to smart motorways.
The reviewer asked: “What local communications are planned to make drivers aware of the scheme and ensure they understand how to use it?”
Relatives of those who have died on smart motorways have complained that National Highways failed to properly educate motorists about changes to the country’s motorway network by scrapping the safety lane. Last year, the company launched a national television campaign advising motorists to "go left" in an emergency.
The dossier shows how avoiding costly "land grabs" encouraged ministers to approve smart motorways.

A 2012 report says “there will be no land take required” to make the M25 "smart" by turning the hard shoulder into a live lane because construction remains “within existing boundaries” and so zero compensation claims would be received.
Two years later, a Treasury report into the “readiness for service” of a "smart" section of M25 noted it “provided a large proportion of the benefits of widening at significantly lower cost … [helping to] exceed the 20 per cent efficiency target required…”
Of the 13 recommendations attached to that report, the only one rejected urged managers to “assure themselves the safety risks of the proposed [smart motorway] design have been suitably identified and mitigated and that cost has not been the only driver.”
It was rejected because “a detailed safety case was developed before” the introduction of all smart motorways.
The whistleblower, whose identity cannot be disclosed, contacted The Telegraph after it uncovered examples of motorists being killed after breaking down in live lanes and failings with multi-million computer systems meant to spot marooned motorists.
He said staff - “from top to toe” - raised “red card” warnings about smart motorways, including an increase in live lane collisions and the inadequate spacing of emergency refuge areas.
“These concerns were logged in the design and before opening concept phases,” he said. “They were either reported up but not listened to or they were blocked from the top of the organisation.”
His greatest fear is bosses may have failed to report safety concerns to ministers.
People protest against smart motorways outside the Department for Transport in November 2021

People protest against smart motorways outside the Department for Transport in November 2021 CREDIT: Heathcliff O'Malley
“Either the risk was accepted or it was ignored,” he added, explaining how he felt some managers over the last 16 years “didn’t want to hear or had a tendency to turn a blind eye” to “uncomfortable messages”.
“Now they have realised they were in error and had to retrospectively fit things like emergency refuges closer together the project has cost many more millions of pounds,” he added.
The source believes ministers “caught a cold” after environmentalists like Swampy came to prominence to oppose roads like the Newbury bypass.
“Whether it was political or financial, the Swampy effect caused long delays and triggered huge costs to the road building programme as politicians and the then Highways Agency became risk averse.
“They avoided lodging planning applications that would involve seizing land. As a result, they kept within the existing boundaries of the motorway network when trying to increase capacity as the numbers of motorists increased.”

Technology flaws 'swept under the carpet'​

Claire Mercer, whose husband, Jason, died on the M1 in 2019 after being hit in a live lane after stopping, said: “Executives have drawn huge salaries with lucrative private contracts secured to force these roads through.
“They have consulted experts and sought staffs’ views, but then completely ignored warnings when cost conflicts with safety.
“Death after death, injury after injury and glaring technology flaws have been swept under the carpet."
National Highways data released earlier this month showed smart motorways without a hard shoulder are three times more deadly to break down on than those with the safety lane. While stopped vehicle detection technology is spotting 1,000 emergency incidents a month, as many as 100 over the same period are being missed.
National Highways is adamant that when the overall data is analysed smart motorways are proven England’s safest roads.
Duncan Smith, the National Highways' executive director for operations, said: “We listened to the concerns raised prior to the M25 schemes opening in 2014 and continue to put safety first to help ensure drivers have confidence in the motorway network.”
He said the latest stocktake from this month showed the company was making “good progress” on the Government’s recommendations to introduce more safety measures on these routes.
“Most cameras are now able to be used by police to enforce lane closures and our traffic officers have the ability to close the most appropriate lane to allow emergency access to incidents," he added.
A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: “The Transport Secretary has consistently acted to improve smart motorway safety, ordering a stocktake in 2020 and investing £900 million to equip them with stopped vehicle detection, enforcement cameras, additional signs and emergency areas, while pausing the rollout of new smart motorways to collect more data.”
 

ABB125

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Pretty damning article in the Tele:

The problem, as usual, is the cost "cutting" measures that have been implemented since the original M42 smart trial section (eg: increasing the distance between refuge areas).
I use quote marks, because so many recent smartification schemes have been horrendously expensive and late. And poorly designed. Etc etc.
So in other words, bog-standard public sector uselessness. Do we never learn?!

(I believe that, for the M4 J3-12 project (has it opened yet? I can't remember!), nearly all the bridges needed rebuilding anyway, because a lot of it was built as 2 lanes originally, then the hard shoulder was subsequently sacrificed under bridges to provide 3 lanes, meaning no space was available for 4 lanes. If you have to rebuild the bridge regardless, you might as well spend a tiny amount more (I'd be surprised if it was more than 5% extra) and make the new bridge wide enough for a hard shoulder as well.
 

DelW

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(I believe that, for the M4 J3-12 project (has it opened yet? I can't remember!), nearly all the bridges needed rebuilding anyway, because a lot of it was built as 2 lanes originally, then the hard shoulder was subsequently sacrificed under bridges to provide 3 lanes, meaning no space was available for 4 lanes. If you have to rebuild the bridge regardless, you might as well spend a tiny amount more (I'd be surprised if it was more than 5% extra) and make the new bridge wide enough for a hard shoulder as well.
Closed for works this weekend, though it's "hoped" that it will be completed by the "end of spring 2022", which can't be far away now.
(Article describing weekend closure of the M4 in Berkshire)

£848m for junction 3 to 12!
 

mmh

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I've often wondered if it would have been feasible for motorways in Britain to have been built in the style they often were in the US, with deliberately large central reservations to allow for adding extra lanes in the future without any alterations to bridges and slip roads.

That can't be done everywhere of course, but it feels like for whatever reason it wasn't considered here, or at least never done.
 

ABB125

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I've often wondered if it would have been feasible for motorways in Britain to have been built in the style they often were in the US, with deliberately large central reservations to allow for adding extra lanes in the future without any alterations to bridges and slip roads.

That can't be done everywhere of course, but it feels like for whatever reason it wasn't considered here, or at least never done.
I imagine that the (very small) increased land cost might have upset the bean counters...

Actually, having said that, I think there are a few short stretches where this has been done. M5 J20-21 springs to mind; the Bristol southern bypass was meant to join the M5 somewhere around J20, with an extra lane for all the traffic going to Weston Super Mare. The layout of J21 very strongly suggests that plans existed for a flyover going into Weston, but I'm not sure if that has ever been confirmed.
 

route101

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Was on a smart motorway on the inside lane last week, I was doing 60mph and still had a truck come up from behind and overtake.
 
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