Smoking on stations

[Butts]

Indeed they do, but the latest legislation was what saw it banned nationally by TOCs in England (and wales?). They are using the Byelaws to their advantage, and any prosecution would be brought using these, as station platforms are largely open air and wouldn't be covered by the legislation anyway.
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No, I can bear it...I just notice it because I'm not a chimney. What also irritates is when people smoke next to me. ;(

Has anyone been prosecuted using the railway byelaws for smoking on open station platforms since the ban came in ?

 

[Stigy]

Has anyone been prosecuted using the railway byelaws for smoking on open station platforms since the ban came in ?

Probably, given the size of the rail network. I've reported people for it a few times, although some matters might be settled without court action. We rarely hear about specific results, and unless pleading not guilty, don't have to attend court. You could do a FOI request...?

As a rule I only tend to report people for it if they refuse to extinguish the ciggie, although on trains they're fair game as far as I'm concerned!

 

[Butts]

Probably, given the size of the rail network. I've reported people for it a few times, although some matters might be settled without court action. We rarely hear about specific results, and unless pleading not guilty, don't have to attend court. You could do a FOI request...?

As a rule I only tend to report people for it if they refuse to extinguish the ciggie, although on trains they're fair game as far as I'm concerned!

What is the procedure if someone refuses to extinguish the cigarette ?

 

[Stigy]

What is the procedure if someone refuses to extinguish the cigarette ?

It's generally good practice to ask them to do so before reporting them, as the TOC I work for are very 'customer focused' as far as prosecutions go, although some might disagree if I said who they are, lol. It will also hold up better if it goes to court if they refused a reasonable request (if they're in front of signage I would probably report them straight away). It's not a necessity and the Byelaws speak for themselves. If they refuse I'd let them get on with it until they finished their fag, then report them for it. I very much doubt the TOC I work for would consider settling out of court given the offender's sheer disregard for the rules.

 

[Butts]

It's generally good practice to ask them to do so before reporting them, as the TOC I work for are very 'customer focused' as far as prosecutions go, although some might disagree if I said who they are, lol. It will also hold up better if it goes to court if they refused a reasonable request (if they're in front of signage I would probably report them straight away). It's not a necessity and the Byelaws speak for themselves. If they refuse I'd let them get on with it until they finished their fag, then report them for it. I very much doubt the TOC I work for would consider settling out of court given the offender's sheer disregard for the rules.

When you say you would report them do you mean getting their name and address - what would happen if they refused to impart this information- do you summon BTP ?

 

[Stigy]

When you say you would report them do you mean getting their name and address - what would happen if they refused to impart this information- do you summon BTP ?

Report them as in report them to the TOC for consideration of prosecuting them (MG11), yes.

If they refused to supply a name and address, then I'd summon BTP, or at the very least threaten them with BTP. If they refused still, I'd request BTP, and when they obtained the details I'd report them for the refusal, too, getting a statement from the officer that helped me out. If they refused initially but then cooperated, I'd probably just report for the initial offence of smoking (BL3), although if they were particularly awkward, I'd report them for refusing details. Bear in mind that BL23 (name and address refusal) has been breach as soon as they refuse to give their name and address, even of they eventually give it to you. Whether you report for that comes down to officer discretion.

 

[rmt-driver]

Oh please ... If someone reported to me someone smoking on my train, Id just play the automated no smoking message over the tannoy system.. Why should I bother myself getting involved! I also know for a fact the company would rather this turn a blind eye approach, than stop the train on the running line at rush hour say, to deal with the situation... which would delay many trains !

 

[Butts]

Oh please ... If someone reported to me someone smoking on my train, Id just play the automated no smoking message over the tannoy system.. Why should I bother myself getting involved! I also know for a fact the company would rather this turn a blind eye approach, than stop the train on the running line at rush hour say, to deal with the situation... which would delay many trains !

Would you have to put out your own cigarette before operating the tannoy

Your my kind of driver :roll:

 

[Stigy]

Oh please ... If someone reported to me someone smoking on my train, Id just play the automated no smoking message over the tannoy system.. Why should I bother myself getting involved! I also know for a fact the company would rather this turn a blind eye approach, than stop the train on the running line at rush hour say, to deal with the situation... which would delay many trains !

Why would I delay a train? I'd deal with them on the train. Generally speaking the sorts of people who light up on board a train, are the sort of people who shouldn't be on it in the first place, and whom will participate in other anti-social activity. You crack on though. :roll:

I can see it now

Mrs Smith "Driver, Driver, there's a young lad up there smoking and swinging off the poles!"

Driver "Okay madam, one moment".....*Reluctantly lifts finger to push button*

 

[rmt-driver]

I was on a very quiet EC train once in FC where the host locked himself in the toilet to smoke, then locked the toilet out of use after. I am very alert to what is going on usually, and it became very clear to me very suddenly what he was up to. After the FC host did this, he swapped with the buffet guy to do it (it was a very quiet train during Engineering work on the EC one weekend). I went to the buffet and politely explained I realised what happened, and nothing would be said if they would unlock the same water closet for me to nip for a quick cigarette. The attendant was happy to be of assistance

 

[Butts]

I was on a very quiet EC train once in FC where the host locked himself in the toilet to smoke, then locked the toilet out of use after. I am very alert to what is going on usually, and it became very clear to me very suddenly what he was up to. After the FC host did this, he swapped with the buffet guy to do it (it was a very quiet train during Engineering work on the EC one weekend). I went to the buffet and politely explained I realised what happened, and nothing would be said if they would unlock the same water closet for me to nip for a quick cigarette. The attendant was happy to be of assistance

Can't you extend this courtesy to passengers as well ....That would be Customer Service Par Excellance (crap at spelling)

 

[rmt-driver]

Can't you extend this courtesy to passengers as well ....That would be Customer Service Par Excellance (crap at spelling)

It wasn't even known I was a railway staff, I was just travelling as a regular passenger on an AP ticket !

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....The Law applied to enclosed spaces which I would not describe an open railway platform as - as I mentioned my belief is the Station Operators extended this to platforms to save on cleaning costs....

The law applies to significantly enclosed spaces, these include waiting rooms, shelters and other station buildings/structures.

Had the railway not erected more signs to forbid smoking (under Byelaw 3) a smoker could, quite legitimately, have been standing next to, but not in, a shelter and exhaled directly into a shelter, but not be stood just inside the entrance/exit and exhale into open space.

How stupid would that have looked?

"Excuse me sir, You can't smoke there, could you put out your cigarette or take a step forward please".

Making sure smoking was not allowed on the premises at all is a simpler way of dealing with the ban, irrespective of cost.

 

[Greenback]

The law applies to significantly enclosed spaces, these include waiting rooms, shelters and other station buildings/structures.

Had the railway not erected more signs to forbid smoking (under Byelaw 3) a smoker could, quite legitimately, have been standing next to, but not in, a shelter and exhaled directly into a shelter, but not be stood just inside the entrance/exit and exhale into open space.

How stupid would that have looked?

"Excuse me sir, You can't smoke there, could you put out your cigarette or take a step forward please".

Making sure smoking was not allowed on the premises at all is a simpler way of dealing with the ban, irrespective of cost.

Well this is exactly what happens elsewhere. Councils should ban smoking on pavements in case someone breathes into a bus shelter or shop doorway.

 

[Butts]

Well this is exactly what happens elsewhere. Councils should ban smoking on pavements in case someone breathes into a bus shelter or shop doorway.

I hope this comment is intended as ironic Greenback :roll: the pull of the "dark side " is gathering momentum within your soul !!

 

[Flamingo]

My usual line on a platform is "You'd better put that fag out, they will have you on CCTV and it is an £80 fine, you don't want to risk it" while pointing at the camera. I have never had anybody say anything other than "Oh, sorry" and put the fag out.

I believe under the legislation, that a company can be fined if their employees are not seen to attempt to enforce the no-smoking rules.

On-train, I am a bit more robust. We have had two HST's set on fire this year that I am aware of by people smoking in the toilets, and quite often smoking is accompanied by other antisocial behaviour or a ticketing irregularity.

I will put people off the train if I catch them smoking, as far as I am concerned, they are endangering it. And I am not spending hours at the end of my shift doing paperwork because someone couldn't wait for a fag1

 

[Intermodal]

Although, some guards have allowed me to smoke on long-distance trains....

 

[Butts]

Although, some guards have allowed me to smoke on long-distance trains....

Who are these samaritans ????

Where did they let you smoke
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My usual line on a platform is "You'd better put that fag out, they will have you on CCTV and it is an £80 fine, you don't want to risk it" while pointing at the camera. I have never had anybody say anything other than "Oh, sorry" and put the fag out.

I believe under the legislation, that a company can be fined if their employees are not seen to attempt to enforce the no-smoking rules.

On-train, I am a bit more robust. We have had two HST's set on fire this year that I am aware of by people smoking in the toilets, and quite often smoking is accompanied by other antisocial behaviour or a ticketing irregularity.

I will put people off the train if I catch them smoking, as far as I am concerned, they are endangering it. And I am not spending hours at the end of my shift doing paperwork because someone couldn't wait for a fag1

How did the railways survive for 170 years when smoking was allowed without multiple fires on a daily basis

I would politely suggest that alcohol would be more responsible for anti-social behaviour than smoking ever was.

 

[gswindale]

I was on a very quiet EC train once in FC where the host locked himself in the toilet to smoke, then locked the toilet out of use after. I am very alert to what is going on usually, and it became very clear to me very suddenly what he was up to. After the FC host did this, he swapped with the buffet guy to do it (it was a very quiet train during Engineering work on the EC one weekend). I went to the buffet and politely explained I realised what happened, and nothing would be said if they would unlock the same water closet for me to nip for a quick cigarette. The attendant was happy to be of assistance

It is that sort of thing happening that makes me complain to a TOC.

What some people seem to forget that smoking is actually banned not only in shops etc but ANY WORKPLACE which includes taxis, buses, cars where you're travelling with colleagues, pool cars etc. Thus a train constitutes the same and as such should be treated as such.

I was frequently complaining to First Beeline when travelling on their bus services a few years back and had to do to FGW so one time whilst waiting at Reading for a train as the law is quite clear.

 

[Flamingo]

How did the railways survive for 170 years when smoking was allowed without multiple fires on a daily basis

I would politely suggest that alcohol would be more responsible for anti-social behaviour than smoking ever was.

No idea, I wasn't around then

But I am aware of fires that have been caused by smoking - Kings Cross is probably the worst example, so don't say that they never happened.

I don't disagree with you that alcohol is responsible for antisocial behaviour, but I find that the smoking usually goes hand in hand with other antisocial (or drunken) behaviour.

 

[Butts]

No idea, I wasn't around then

But I am aware of fires that have been caused by smoking - Kings Cross is probably the worst example, so don't say that they never happened.

I don't disagree with you that alcohol is responsible for antisocial behaviour, but I find that the smoking usually goes hand in hand with other antisocial (or drunken) behaviour.

Would you rather deal with:

1. A carriage full of drunken football supporters

2. A carriage full of smokers

Or if you are really unlucky.......

A carriage full of drunken football supporters smoking:roll:

Which category does Dot Cotton fall into with regard to smoking ???

 

[gswindale]

Ever heard the expression the law is an ass

Are you an ex-smoker employed as a traffic warden ?

No just someone who cannot stand the stench of cigarette smoke and if in the place where I shouldn't findit do think it only right to complain.

 

[Flamingo]

Same response to both - behave or leave, as the train ain't leaving the next station until one or the other happens.

 

[Butts]

Same response to both - behave or leave, as the train ain't leaving the next station until one or the other happens.

Seems not all staff agree with you:roll:
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No just someone who cannot stand the stench of cigarette smoke and if in the place where I shouldn't findit do think it only right to complain.

How did you exist before the ban came in - did you walk about with a respirator to hand

 

[Greenback]

I hope this comment is intended as ironic Greenback :roll: the pull of the "dark side " is gathering momentum within your soul !!

In this case, yes, it was ironic!

No idea, I wasn't around then

But I am aware of fires that have been caused by smoking - Kings Cross is probably the worst example, so don't say that they never happened.

I don't disagree with you that alcohol is responsible for antisocial behaviour, but I find that the smoking usually goes hand in hand with other antisocial (or drunken) behaviour.

Obviously, smoking where you shouldn't be, like the toilets of a HST, is antisocial beahviour, and I think it is likely that the majoirty of people who do that sor tof thing will be just as likely to be involved in other types of bad behaviour.

Butts, I'm afraid you are going to have to accept that us smokers are in the minority, and that it is banned in enclosed spaces!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Since the thread uses the word "stations" in its title, could I draw comparison to bus stations. The large bus stations in Greater Manchester all have similarities to the railway stations, in that there are both enclosed and open sections in these premises. Announcements are made at regular intervals by the public address system in the Greater Manchester bus stations that smoking is against "the law" and that failure to comply "with this law" etc...need I say more?

Smoking in these bus stations is stated to be against the law. not only in the enclosed shelters or on the outside of these shelters, but actually anywhere within the actual perimeter of the bus station itself.

 

[gswindale]

How did you exist before the ban came in - did you walk about with a respirator to hand

By staying out of the smoking sections of pubs

Seriously though I don't have a problem with people smoking as long as they do it in an area where it is allowed. I just try to stay out of those areas.

 

[Greenback]

Seriously though I don't have a problem with people smoking as long as they do it in an area where it is allowed. I just try to stay out of those areas.

I find this to be a sensible view that most non smokers hold. Hence my preference for clearly marked smoking zones in open public areas, so that everyone knows where they are and they can be avoided!

 

[Stigy]

Some people would waste time complaining about anything, personally I have better things to do with my life !

You do realise that all staff have a legal responsibility to reasonably enforce the ban at stations and on trains, don't you?

 

[yorkie]

I've never smoked and can smell the cigarette smoke a mile off, especially on railway station platforms, where you shouldn't be able to smell it anymore. I would definitely be able to smell smoke through even the strongest of Air Fresheners. I've heard that smokers' smell and taste sensations aren't as sharp as non-smokers'.

I also can detect it, and I always ensure it's dealt with. I contact staff if possible and I will speak to the smokers directly if appropriate, in the last week that included at Huddersfield and Gatwick Airport. They always put it out but some don't like to be told, but then people breaking the law don't tend to like being told to stop! If I detect smoke on board I usually alert the guard because I see that as very serious, and I fully agree with Flamingo that they should be removed from the train for that.