Smoking on stations

[GB]

As long as they don't get strict on smoking in the cab, it's fine

Given that is now a criminal offence and can consitute gross misconduct ro smoke in cabs I think its fair to say they will be strict if caught.

 

[Deerfold]

How do you fancy paying another 3p in income tax if everyone gives up

If I could guarantee never having to breathe in second hand smoke again?

Willingly.

 

[Butts]

They'll make some of the tax back by the NHS not having to treat so many smoking related diseases.

How do you propose to raise the other SIX BILLION - are you happy to pay the extra tax ?
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If I could guarantee never having to breathe in second hand smoke again?

Willingly.

I don't think that would be a view wildly popular with the electorate ?

 

[Buttsy]

The act of throwing a cigarette end on the floor constitutes an offence of some sort (I cannot remember which), but there was a poster campaign about this very matter in Greater Manchester two years ago. I think that "causing litter" was part of the wording.

Can anyone help on this matter?

Dropping cigarette butts constitues littering and smokers in Oxford have been given on the spot fines of £80 for doing just this. That's not to say those who drop crisp packets, chocolate wrappers etc haven't also been fined.

I think the best way of enforcing the ban is to request the ciagertte be put out and if tehy drop it on the floor, then they get an £80 fine for littering.

The most annoying aspect of the indoor smoking ban is that at football grounds where it's banned throughout the ground, going to the toilet at half time is like going through a fog and your clothes end up smelling of fags. my big question is, how often do you smoke at work that you can't go 90 minutes without lighting up?

 

[Butts]

Given that is now a criminal offence and can consitute gross misconduct ro smoke in cabs I think its fair to say they will be strict if caught.

If the guy is having a sly tab and he sensibly comes armed with a can of air freshner what harm is he doing anyone else :roll:
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Dropping cigarette butts constitues littering and smokers in Oxford have been given on the spot fines of £80 for doing just this. That's not to say those who drop crisp packets, chocolate wrappers etc haven't also been fined.

I've always wondered what happens if someone drops a butt down a drain - if they have not got the evidence (ie the offending butt) can they issue a fine?

 

[Deerfold]

If the guy is having a sly tab and he sensibly comes armed with a can of air freshner what harm is he doing anyone else :roll:

Ah - a smoker who doesn't realise just how much smoke sticks around and is usually very obvious through air freshener to someone who doesn't smoke.

And isn't regularly spraying air freshener in your cab a bit suspicious?

 

[Butts]

Ah - a smoker who doesn't realise just how much smoke sticks around and is usually very obvious through air freshener to someone who doesn't smoke.

And isn't regularly spraying air freshener in your cab a bit suspicious?

It could be the smell of curry or fish - are drivers allowed to eat in the cab ?

I'm not sure about your point on non-smokers being able to detect smoke through air freshener. I can only speak from my own experience of regularly smoking in hotel bathrooms (when a smoking room was unavailable) using a deodrant or perfume or mr sheen after - plus running the shower on hot to produce steam. I have never been lifted for this.

Regularly spraying a/f would be a sign of good housekeeping ?

 

[Deerfold]

It could be the smell of curry or fish - are drivers allowed to eat in the cab ?

I'm not sure about your point on non-smokers being able to detect smoke through air freshener. I can only speak from my own experience of regularly smoking in hotel bathrooms (when a smoking room was unavailable) using a deodrant or perfume or mr sheen after - plus running the shower on hot to produce steam. I have never been lifted for this.

Regularly spraying a/f would be a sign of good housekeeping ?

I know we've stayed in non-smoking rooms in hotels where someone has clearly been smoking in them. Whether the hotel has noticed this or not I can't say. But my wife's asthma certainly has.

 

[Butts]

I know we've stayed in non-smoking rooms in hotels where someone has clearly been smoking in them. Whether the hotel has noticed this or not I can't say. But my wife's asthma certainly has.

You must have a nose like a bloodhound.....

How did you wife mange before the smoking ban came in ???

I take it her affliction prevents you from experiencing the joys of a Steam Railway as this must be far more pernicious than the odour left by a cigarette in a hotel room.

 

[Deerfold]

You must have a nose like a bloodhound.....

How did you wife mange before the smoking ban came in ???

I take it her affliction prevents you from experiencing the joys of a Steam Railway as this must be far more pernicious than the odour left by a cigarette in a hotel room.

Even before the smoking ban there were non-smoking hotel rooms. Since the smoking ban came in she's been able to visit a pub without needing to use her inhaler every 10 minutes - she can now go weeks without needing it and attends more gigs than she used to.

Although she has been on steam trains she's usually not in the line of smoke for long - compare with staying the night in a hotel room.

 

[IanXC]

You must have a nose like a bloodhound.....

Or maybe just one that hasn't been completely desensitised by smoking...

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Here speaks the voice of reason and liberty :roll:

You should be grateful some of us mugs smoke -the government makes a huge profit on smokers even after deducting costs to the NHS of smoking related illness never mind the amount saved in pensions and benefits they don't have to pay as we peg it early.

How do you fancy paying another 3p in income tax if everyone gives up

Firstly, that'll be KNOWN smoking related illness (they seem to release research every few years with links to some other illness).

Secondly, Does that include known passive smoking related illness? (ever heard of Roy Castle OBE?)

Thirdly, there is nothing to say that these people who die from smoking wouldn't die from being runover by drunk drivers, railway fatalities, air crashes, being shot as they attempt to steal things from a farm, falling down the stairs whilst putting their trousers on, etc, etc.

Finally, if I have to pay a little extra tax to increase my chances of survival, then so be it. To be honest tax is taking so much of my money that a little extra probably wouldn't make much difference!

 

[Buttsy]

I'm finding this a typical selfish smoker's response - 'I want to smoke and I don't care about inflicting my filth onto everybody else around me'.

 

[Butts]

I'm finding this a typical selfish smoker's response - 'I want to smoke and I don't care about inflicting my filth onto everybody else around me'.

If you read what I said I always try and smoke not in the immediate vicinity of non-smokers so I'm unsure how you arrive at the above conclusion.

Incidentally did you realise the excise duty and vat paid by smokers over and above the cost to the health service is enough to pay for the current UK rail subsidy.

This is Butts telling Buttsy to Butt Out

 

[Buttsy]

I was a smoker in the late 80s, but gave up for various reasons - £1.50 for 20 was one of them.

The law has been passed and should be adhered to. If I drive to fast and get stopped for speeding, I'll take the fine.

If you take out the smoking-related diseases that affect non-smokers, asthma, emphasemia etc., which are treated by the NHS as well, the gap between the revenue & cost narrows. Anyone remember Roy Castle?

My point was mainly referring to the 'I smoke in non-smoking hotel bathrooms' comment, doing what you want to do without any thought of other people = selfish IMO.

 

[Butts]

I was a smoker in the late 80s, but gave up for various reasons - £1.50 for 20 was one of them.

The law has been passed and should be adhered to. If I drive to fast and get stopped for speeding, I'll take the fine.

If you take out the smoking-related diseases that affect non-smokers, asthma, emphasemia etc., which are treated by the NHS as well, the gap between the revenue & cost narrows. Anyone remember Roy Castle?

My point was mainly referring to the 'I smoke in non-smoking hotel bathrooms' comment, doing what you want to do without any thought of other people = selfish IMO.

As an ex-smoker Buttsy I would expect you to be a little more tolerant - however it seems a lot of ex-smokers are more hostile than those who have never smoked.

The Law applied to enclosed spaces which I would not describe an open railway platform as - as I mentioned my belief is the Station Operators extended this to platforms to save on cleaning costs.

I accept Roy Castle was an unfortunate casualty of being exposed to second hand smoke. Legally speaking there is not enough evidence to link passive smoking and lung cancer - hence the lack of any successful prosecution by an individual against a tobacco company unlike asbestos for example.

No one least of all me is suggesting that smoking is a sensible habit or does not carry risks. About half of all smokers will die of a smoking related disease some earlier than they would have done otherwise. You never hear an explanation as to why the other half "get away with it"

With regard to my illicit tab in a hotel bathroom when I have finished my "cover up" I send in my Wife or Son (non-smokers) who attest to the fact no odour is discernible. Provision of smoking rooms would prevent this deception.

Finally £1.50 a packet .... those were the days

 

[Deerfold]

The Law applied to enclosed spaces which I would not describe an open railway platform as - as I mentioned my belief is the Station Operators extended this to platforms to save on cleaning costs.

Surely the railway byelaws which cover the ban on smoking on platforms were explained to you last time you started a thread on this subject:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40451

 

[Butts]

Surely the railway byelaws which cover the ban on smoking on platforms were explained to you last time you started a thread on this subject:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40451

But the reason for there implementation was not and the apparent diparity between Scotland and the rest of the UK not fully explored.

Was any consultation carried out with regard to smoking on open platforms

 

[Stigy]

You must have a nose like a bloodhound.....

How did you wife mange before the smoking ban came in ???

I've never smoked and can smell the cigarette smoke a mile off, especially on railway station platforms, where you shouldn't be able to smell it anymore. I would definitely be able to smell smoke through even the strongest of Air Fresheners. I've heard that smokers' smell and taste sensations aren't as sharp as non-smokers'.

 

[Greenback]

Smokers who demand the freedom to exercise their right to smoke are usually denying others the chance to exercise their right not to experience second hand smoke. However, I am not in favour of banning it everywhere, and I am in favour of allowing smoking in designated zones in the open air, set well apart from where non smokers might like to be.

As an example, at the local beach I would ban smoking along the front, but allow it in a far flung corner of the car park. This would be well signposted, so that non smokers could steer well clear, and be clearly marked on the ground.

I see no reason why this could not also be allowed on small, 10 foot by 10 foot say, sections at the ends of our longer open air platforms.

 

[Butts]

I've never smoked and can smell the cigarette smoke a mile off, especially on railway station platforms, where you shouldn't be able to smell it anymore. I would definitely be able to smell smoke through even the strongest of Air Fresheners. I've heard that smokers' smell and taste sensations aren't as sharp as non-smokers'.

With such an advanced sense of smell it must be a problem for you walking up the high street.:roll:
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Smokers who demand the freedom to exercise their right to smoke are usually denying others the chance to exercise their right not to experience second hand smoke. However, I am not in favour of banning it everywhere, and I am in favour of allowing smoking in designated zones in the open air, set well apart from where non smokers might like to be.

As an example, at the local beach I would ban smoking along the front, but allow it in a far flung corner of the car park. This would be well signposted, so that non smokers could steer well clear, and be clearly marked on the ground.

I see no reason why this could not also be allowed on small, 10 foot by 10 foot say, sections at the ends of our longer open air platforms.

Come on Greenback admit it you'd rather see us on the tracks !!!

 

[Greenback]

Come on Greenback admit it you'd rather see us on the tracks !!!

As I;d be with you, I really wouldn't! As a smoker myself, I'd prefer to see segregation, I'm no longer comfortable smoking anywhere where there could be non smokers, including in a pub beer garden. I'd rather see a limited number of smoking tables so that non smokers could avoid the area around those tables rather than try and make me feel guilty for daring to have a puff outside.

I don't want to upset anyone, and I don't want to make them ill. If there is a smoking zone everyone will know about it, and those who want to can keep well away.

 

[rmt-driver]

Brb time for a puff ahhhhhhh... *cyber smoke*

 

[bnm]

But the reason for there implementation was not and the apparent diparity between Scotland and the rest of the UK not fully explored.

Was any consultation carried out with regard to smoking on open platforms

Railway byelaws on smoking pre-date the Scottish and England & Wales smoking bans by decades.

It's quite simple. If there is a sign saying you can't smoke then you commit a byelaw offence if you light up. Prosecution would most likely be under the byelaws and not the more recent legislation.

 

[rmt-driver]

Railway byelaws on smoking pre-date the Scottish and England & Wales smoking bans by decades.

It's quite simple. If there is a sign saying you can't smoke then you commit a byelaw offence if you light up. Prosecution would most likely be under the byelaws and not the more recent legislation.

I'm sure you could smoke onboard GNER trains right up until the ban came in

 

[Deerfold]

I'm sure you could smoke onboard GNER trains right up until the ban came in

Wikipedia has it 7 months before in August 2005.

 

[rmt-driver]

Well more or less.. What surprised me was when they refurbed the 225s I thought they would get rid of smoking then but they kept it much to my delight. It was lovely sitting back with a few GnTs in first, some snacks and having a few smokes on the way, much more enjoyable than this new first offer they do haha

 

[Butts]

As I;d be with you, I really wouldn't! As a smoker myself, I'd prefer to see segregation, I'm no longer comfortable smoking anywhere where there could be non smokers, including in a pub beer garden. I'd rather see a limited number of smoking tables so that non smokers could avoid the area around those tables rather than try and make me feel guilty for daring to have a puff outside.

I don't want to upset anyone, and I don't want to make them ill. If there is a smoking zone everyone will know about it, and those who want to can keep well away.

Greenback you have gone over to the "dark side"

Don't go giving them ideas about banning smoking outside - it will soon go from "a limited number of smoking tables" to none at all :roll:

These zealots primarily lead by ex-smokers are never satisfied and not willing to compromise:roll:

Never forget you are engaged in a legal acivity that enables those unafflicted to pay lower taxes a small price to pay for a whiff of a Benson and Hedges King Size Cigarette.
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Railway byelaws on smoking pre-date the Scottish and England & Wales smoking bans by decades.

It's quite simple. If there is a sign saying you can't smoke then you commit a byelaw offence if you light up. Prosecution would most likely be under the byelaws and not the more recent legislation.

Could Railway Byelaws permit smoking anywhere on their premises - I admit this is unlikely but am curious ?
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As were on the subject are there any Railways left in Europe where smoking provision is still available.

I believe on the Trans Siberian Express you can still smoke in the vestibules.

A couple of years ago I got a train from Vienna to Budapest the smoking carriages were still marked but officially not permitted (Hungarian RS) Most travellers seemed to ignore the ban in the old smoking coaches.

Train from Warsaw to Krakow about three years ago had smoking 1st Class carriages.

 

[Greenback]

Greenback you have gone over to the "dark side"

Maybe I have! My views have certainly changed over the last ten to fifteen years!
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Could Railway Byelaws permit smoking anywhere on their premises - I admit this is unlikely but am curious ?

As long as it is not in breach of the no smoking legislation, there is no reason why not.

 

[Stigy]

Railway byelaws on smoking pre-date the Scottish and England & Wales smoking bans by decades.

It's quite simple. If there is a sign saying you can't smoke then you commit a byelaw offence if you light up. Prosecution would most likely be under the byelaws and not the more recent legislation.

Indeed they do, but the latest legislation was what saw it banned nationally by TOCs in England (and wales?). They are using the Byelaws to their advantage, and any prosecution would be brought using these, as station platforms are largely open air and wouldn't be covered by the legislation anyway.
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With such an advanced sense of smell it must be a problem for you walking up the high street.:roll:
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No, I can bear it...I just notice it because I'm not a chimney. What also irritates is when people smoke next to me. ;(