SNCF TER in south of France not accepting inter-rail tickets?

[peteb]

Someone's posted a link on another forum about TER Provence Côte d'Azur not accepting all manner of SNCF discount cards nor inter-rail from now on. I'm pretty dubious that they'd be able to just cease acceptance in the midst of the summer holidays. Does anyone in France know if this a fact, or mis-information?

 

[hexagon789]

Someone's posted a link on another forum about TER Provence Côte d'Azur not accepting all manner of SNCF discount cards nor inter-rail from now on. I'm pretty dubious that they'd be able to just cease acceptance in the midst of the summer holidays. Does anyone in France know if this a fact, or mis-information?

This is correct, effective as of yesterday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is correct, effective as of yesterday.

But not, if I'm reading Twitter correctly, for passes already issued.

 

[hexagon789]

But not, if I'm reading Twitter correctly, for passes already issued.

This is what the SNCF has to say on the matter:

Depuis le 1er juillet 2022, la majorité des tarifs et cartes nationales SNCF n'est plus applicable sur le réseau TER SUD.

And further down:

Pour les trajets ayant une origine ou une destination en région Sud et en région Occitanie, les tarifs suivants ne sont plus disponibles à la vente et ne seront plus applicables :
• Billets cartes Avantages (Jeunes/Seniors/Week-end/Famille) et accompagnants
• Billets cartes Famille Militaire
• Billets cartes Liberté
• Billets cartes du Personnel de la Défense
• Billets au tarif découverte (Jeunes/Seniors/Enfant +)
• Billets au tarif « Congrès et salons »
• Billets au tarif Eurail Pass et Inter Rail
• Abonnements de Travail Hebdo et Mensuels

Edit: I've just seen this under FAQs:

Et si j'ai acheté ma carte ou mon titre de transports avant le 1er de juillet 2022?


Vous pourrez encore voyager avec à la date prévue pour votre voyage.
Si vous sollicitez un échange, vous ne pourrez en revanche plus profiter du tarif national choisi lors de votre achat.

So tickets already purchased at the discounted rate are still valid for travel but cannot be exchanged for another discounted one.

 

[peteb]

How does this affect inter-rail passes as I have one valid April to July 2023, can I use that on TER? If not it seems like France will bow out of inter-rail as all other trains involve some sort of supplement often negating the value of inter-rail to nil. EG: upgrade costs more than a book ahead ticket...☹️
Thus situation is a bit like an operator like Northern trains suddenly not accepting railcards....there would be uproar in the UK if this happened here....wouldn't there?

 

[Feuillesmortes]

I'm pretty dubious that they'd be able to just cease acceptance in the midst of the summer holidays.

It sounds like a bit like Amazon UK talking about not accepting Visa cards as a negotiation tactic

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thus situation is a bit like an operator like Northern trains suddenly not accepting railcards....there would be uproar in the UK if this happened here....wouldn't there?

Merseyrail did pretty much exactly that overnight when they abolished their Off Peak tickets in favour of the undiscountable day tickets and got away with it, and are comparable as a devolved operation.

 

[peteb]

Grim for those wanting to get thru France on inter-rail via Marseille to Nice axis. How far does the ban extend north? Can one use inter-rail on the loco hauled TER from Lyon to Avignon for example?

 

[D6130]

I wonder if this has been initiated by the various regional authorities in Southern France who subsidise the TER services and specify the service levels and tariffs. In my limited experience, The TER EMUs along the Riviera between Grasse-Cannes-Nice-Menton and Ventimiglia get incredibly crowded in the Summer holiday periods....although we try, if we can, to avoid going at that time of year. I wonder whether FIP tickets and free coupons are still accepted?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if this has been initiated by the various regional authorities in Southern France who subsidise the TER services and specify the service levels and tariffs.

It is, yes.

In my limited experience, The TER EMUs aalong the Riviera between Grasse-Cannes-Nice-Menton and Ventimiglia get incredibly crowded in the Summer holiday periods....although we try, if we can, to avoid going at that time of year. I wonder whether FIP tickets and free coupons are still accepted?

Twitter threads I saw on this seemed to suggest no FIP either. In essence the routes have been removed from the national network and turned into something more like a metro service in fare structure.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

There's now an "urgent message" on the Interrail website saying that they're investigating this now with SNCF

 

[hexagon789]

Grim for those wanting to get thru France on inter-rail via Marseille to Nice axis. How far does the ban extend north? Can one use inter-rail on the loco hauled TER from Lyon to Avignon for example?

Its any services either wholly within TER Sud, or between Sud and Occitanie.

I wonder whether FIP tickets and free coupons are still accepted?

Even the SNCF staff discounts are no longer valid! So no, no FIP etc

 

[D6130]

A friend who is a retired SNCF manager - with whom we stay in Paris en route to and from Italy - warned me five or six years ago that something like this would probably happen. He also said that it would probably eventually spread to all of the French Regions.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

A friend who is a retired SNCF manager warned me five or six years ago that something like this would probably happen.

And does he think it's a temporary protest that will get resolved in some days, or something more permanent?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Those wanting regionalisation in the UK, be careful what you wish for...

 

[D6130]

And does he think it's a temporary protest that will get resolved in some days, or something more permanent?

I haven't been able to contact him yet. I think he must be away for the weekend. If I find out any more information I shall post it on here, but he hasn't been working for more than ten years. He may, of course, be able to find out more from the French media.

 

[Austriantrain]

Those wanting regionalisation in the UK, be careful what you wish for...

It’s all very well to regionalise service provision, especially since SNCF has proved again and again that that are not competent enough to provide a decent service.

It is another matter entirely to completely devolve fares, this is an utter joke. Well, a typical French one, unfortunately, they manage to prove again and again that they are unable to run a railway (nobody in Germany - a federal country! - would ever think of doing this - there are regional deals, but AFAIK national tickets are always valid).

 

[peteb]

Surely when France agreed to be part of inter-rail the contract stipulated what was and what was not included in the offer? Therefore wouldn't anyone who's purchased a one country inter-rail ticket, say with a view to travelling extensively in and around the south of France, be entitled to claim a refund from the seller as the service purchased is no longer available, so the contract is breached? I guess their get out for global tickets is that France merely makes up a small part of the European network and there are other places you can still visit using inter-rail valid routes? It would be interesting to learn of anyone who managed to get a refund, also whether those currently on holiday will be excessed, the grippers will be very busy.......it all seems a long way from 2019 and the €1 tickets on sale then.......

 

[daodao]

It’s all very well to regionalise service provision, especially since SNCF has proved again and again that that are not competent enough to provide a decent service.

It is another matter entirely to completely devolve fares, this is an utter joke. Well, a typical French one, unfortunately, they manage to prove again and again that they are unable to run a railway (nobody in Germany - a federal country! - would ever think of doing this - there are regional deals, but AFAIK national tickets are always valid).

A little OTT (over the top). I don't think that the South of France TER has behaved unreasonably.

It is no different from the situation in some UK metropolitan areas. In Greater Manchester, National Rail fares are not valid/available for former railway services converted to Metrolink. For journeys from Altrincham to Manchester, rail tickets are no longer valid on the direct line via Sale and can only be used on the Northern Rail service via Stockport.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A little OTT (over the top). I don't think that the South of France TER has behaved unreasonably.

It is no different from the situation in some UK metropolitan areas. In Greater Manchester, National Rail fares are not valid/available for former railway services converted to Metrolink. For journeys from Altrincham to Manchester, rail tickets are no longer valid on the direct line via Sale and can only be used on the Northern Rail service via Stockport.

Or Merseyrail, where the replacement of Off Peak fares with day tickets considerably reduced the utility of Railcards.

However, TER Sud is not a small urban network like these examples. It is a bit more like Northern withdrawing from National Rail fares entirely, say. Or, as might be more likely (as it has been proposed before), TfW or ScotRail.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Therefore wouldn't anyone who's purchased a one country inter-rail ticket be entitled to claim a refund from the seller

Post #4 suggests that those people will be OK to travel if purchased before 1 July

 

[Austriantrain]

A little OTT (over the top). I don't think that the South of France TER has behaved unreasonably.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I am to mine, and I don’t consider it OTT at all. This decision goes far beyond Interrail and basically abolishes a national rail system. In addition, the advance notice is ridiculously short.

 

[D6130]

You are entitled to your opinion, and I am to mine, and I don’t consider it OTT at all. This decision goes far beyond Interrail and basically abolishes a national rail system. In addition, the advance notice is ridiculously short.

I fully agree with @Austriantrain .

 

[ashkeba]

Those wanting regionalisation in the UK, be careful what you wish for...

Would it be that different? Ordinary working age single adults can only buy a railcard for the south east region. A northwest railcard and similar in other regions may be seen as a minor selling point of French style regionalization.

Edit : there seem to be some other local railcards mainly on GWR and TfW areas, but not whole regions and some even only one line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would it be that different? Ordinary working age single adults can only buy a railcard for the south east region. A northwest railcard and similar in other regions may be seen as a minor selling point of French style regionalization.

Nothing stopping them from funding it now, but under this you'd lose all the National Railcards.

 

[ashkeba]

Nothing stopping them from funding it now, but under this you'd lose all the National Railcards.

But most people have no national railcard option, so won't see their loss as a drawback. Recent history has cautionary tales about assuming people value benefits other people get.

How many hold the various national French discount cards? I suspect this loss is niche nationally while the restrictions and local trains for local people noise will be popular with local taxpayers and voters.

 

[D6130]

But most people have no national railcard option, so won't see their loss as a drawback. Recent history has cautionary tales about assuming people value benefits other people get.

How many hold the various national French discount cards? I suspect this loss is niche nationally while the restrictions and local trains for local people noise will be popular with local taxpayers and voters.

The South East of France, and particularly the cities of Nice and Toulon, is politically very - in some cases far - right wing and I suspect that you are right in saying that this is a populist move to appease their voters and taxpayers.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The TER Sud website seems to suggest that more tariff changes will come in 2023.
It looks like they are implementing a radical fares revision, of the sort we seem to find impossible.
France's Regions evidently intend to exploit their autonomy, which incudes being able to buy trains outside the SNCF procurement umbrella.

Evolution des tarifs 2023 | SNCF

En janvier 2023, la Région Sud déploie de nouveaux tarifs plus simples et harmonisés sur les lignes de bus et les trains de son réseau de transport ZOU !

m.ter.sncf.com

In January 2023, the South Region is rolling out new fares on the 850 bus lines and 157 trains in its ZOU transport network!
The 230 fares currently in force will be replaced by only a dozen tickets on the entire ZOU! transport network: bus and train.

The new ZOU rates! have the ambition to offer:
• a unique and compact range of a dozen titles,
• fares adapted to your purchasing power and your mobility needs,
• attractive subscription formulas to get around by public transport.
Find all the information about the new ZOU range! coming to the site zou.maregionsud.fr

 

[Austriantrain]

The TER Sud website seems to suggest that more tariff changes will come in 2023.
It looks like they are implementing a radical fares revision, of the sort we seem to find impossible.
France's Regions evidently intend to exploit their autonomy, which incudes being able to buy trains outside the SNCF procurement umbrella.

Evolution des tarifs 2023 | SNCF

En janvier 2023, la Région Sud déploie de nouveaux tarifs plus simples et harmonisés sur les lignes de bus et les trains de son réseau de transport ZOU !

m.ter.sncf.com

And yet they are still planning an hourly TER service for Marseille - Nice, when the rest of Europe would look at half-hourly trains on such a route.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair a "Verbundtarif" looks very good, but I don't see why they'd need to bar InterRail, FIP etc to do that.