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SNP ends power sharing with the Scottish Greens - Humza Yousaf resigns as SNP leader

YorkRailFan

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Scottish Greens co-leaders Lorna Slater and Patrick Harvie were seen walking out of Bute House before an emergency cabinet meeting. The Greens said the SNP had "sold out future generations".
It follows the government's decision to scrap key climate targets and a pause on the prescription of puberty blockers for under-18s.
The SNP will now form a minority government.
First Minister Humza Yousaf said he had formally notified Ms Slater and Mr Harvie that the Bute House agreement - which was signed by the two parties following the Holyrood election in 2021 - had been terminated.
The deal saw Mr Harvie and Ms Slater given junior ministerial roles within the Scottish government in return for Green support for the government's policies. Both will now leave their posts.

Mr Yousaf said he had thanked them for their contribution to the Scottish government and made it clear the SNP intended to work with the Greens "where we can" and "in the national interest".
"The Bute House agreement was intended to provide stability to the Scottish government and it has made possible a number of achievements," he said.
"But it has served its purpose - it is no longer guaranteeing a stable arrangement in parliament.
"The events of recent days have made that clear and therefore after careful consideration I believe that going forward it is in the best interest of the people of Scotland to pursue a different arrangement."
Of Scotland's 129 parliamentary seats, the SNP hold 63 while the Greens have seven. The Scottish Conservatives hold 31 and Labour have 22.
The Scottish Greens announced last week that its members would be given a vote in the coming weeks on whether the party should remain in power with the SNP.
Mr Harvie previously said he would quit as co-leader if the party voted to end the agreement, but on Thursday he said his position was a discussion for another day.
Speaking to journalists in the parliament's Garden Lobby, Mr Harvie said the first minister's decision was a "total U-turn from recent days".
Asked whether the Scottish Greens would be as co-operative with the government over things like the budget, he replied: "Do you think the current government will still be in place for the next budget?"
Meanwhile Ms Slater described the ending of the Bute House agreement as an "act of political cowardice by the SNP" and accused the party of "selling out future generations".
She also said she was confident Green members would have supported the party staying in government if the vote had happened.
She said: "Neither they nor SNP members will have that opportunity. Instead, the most reactionary and backwards-looking forces within the first minister's party have forced him to do the opposite of what he himself had said was in Scotland's best interests.
"By contrast we as co-leaders of the Scottish Greens were prepared to put our own political careers on the line with our members, to defend our achievements in government, despite enduring all that SNP backbenchers and others threw against us."
It comes a week after the SNP's Energy Secretary Mairi McAllan announced that Scotland's target of cutting carbon emissions by 75% by 2030 compared to 1990 levels was out of reach and would be scrapped - sparking anger from many grassroots Green members.
Scotland's NHS also said it was pausing prescribing puberty blockers to under-18s referred by the country's only specialist clinic following a report by Dr Hilary Cass.
Mr Harvie said there was "distress" in the party over the move and that young trans people may now "not get access to the treatment they need".


The reason the Scottish Greens gave for ending the agreement makes sense considering what the Greens stand for, and whether or not you agree with the Greens, you have to give them credit for holding up to their principals.

NEW: Humza Yousaf rejects calls for an early Holyrood election.

Looks like the SNP will hold out until the next general election, but if the SNP win the most seats after the next general election, this breakup will make it significantly harder for the SNP to find a partner to power share with as Labour have seen a significant rise in Scotland in the past few years with most polls projecting a hung Parliament in Holyrood.
 
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jfollows

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Could be a big mistake by the SNP:

Motion of no confidence in Humza Yousaf.

Pissed-off Green party could vote in favour of this motion, which will be supported by Labour and Conservative.

63-65 minority of MSPs held by SNP. If they can't get anyone else to support them they're in serious trouble.

Could result in an early election in Scotland, which will annihilate the SNP I guess.
 

Purple Train

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Could be a big mistake by the SNP:

Motion of no confidence in Humza Yousuf.

Pissed-off Green party could vote in favour of this motion, which will be supported by Labour and Conservative.

63-65 minority of MSPs held by SNP. If they can't get anyone else to support them they're in serious trouble.

Could result in an early election in Scotland, which will annihilate the SNP I guess.
Quite. I'm not getting my hopes up just yet, but it does look like it could potentially be extremely tricky for them to say the least.
 

brad465

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When a particular party has been in government for so long, voters get tired of them and the party runs out of ideas and competency. The SNP has been the largest party, sometimes in a majority, in Holyrood since 2007, longer than the Tories in Westminster.

Also when a party is failing, all it takes is one domino to fall and several more follow. In this case it was any of the following: Trans bill fallout, Sturgeon stepping down, the ongoing legal matters, the climate commitment reneging and this is now the resultant effect.
 

jfollows

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The numbers appear to be:

57 against SNP (31 Conservative, 22 Labour, 4 LibDem)

7 Green

1 ALBA (ex-SNP)

TOTAL up to 65

63 SNP
 

David M

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The Greens didn't end the agreement, the SNP did - the climate change argument is spurious, the main disagreement is down to the Cass report.
The Scottish Greens are wired to the moon and will not be missed.
 

sannox

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The numbers appear to be:

57 against SNP (31 Conservative, 22 Labour, 4 LibDem)

7 Green

1 ALBA (ex-SNP)

TOTAL up to 65

63 SNP

Tough ask for a no-confidence vote. The independence parties might be wary of the optics of kicking out a pro-independence leader - especially if SNP weakened position in an election would see a need for list votes which might hurt those SNP voters who toss the Greens etc a vote.
 

Blindtraveler

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Quite. I'm not getting my hopes up just yet, but it does look like it could potentially like yourself, not going to get my hopes up but I won't deny that I went to bed with a smile last night

As @brad465 also notes, the current administration in one shape or form or another has been in power in Edinburgh since 2007 and there are many elements of it that are very much in need of a refresh now, speaking from my own personal viewpoint here I have never felt that a largely one trick pony party which in this case that one trick being achieved Scottish independence should be in such a position of power and the more recent divergences in to green issues or gender controversies have I suspect being there increasingly desperate way to try and appeal to the masses now that the wheels on the independence bus are slowly rusting up
I suspect also that if you asked Mr or Mrs average in the street these days that no matter how much they write support the SNP or the notion of an independent nation they would admit that much of their handling of the domestic agenda has been dubious

be extremely tricky for them to say the least.
 

GusB

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What's the Cass report?

I presume it's connected with this:

Scottish Green co-leader and Government minister Patrick Harvie could face a confidence vote in Holyrood.

The Alba Party announced on Tuesday its Holyrood leader Ash Regan is submitting a motion of no confidence in the minister, which could force a vote he would almost certainly win.

The motion comes over Harvie’s failure to say if he accepts the findings of the Cass Review in an interview on Monday.

Asked five times if he accepts the report, the minister refused to say, instead claiming it has been “politicised and weaponised” against trans people.

The review – published earlier this month – highlighted a lack of evidence for some treatments of transgender young people and decried the “toxic” debate around the issue.

The motion would require support from 25 other members in Parliament before it could force a vote, but the joint numbers of the SNP and Greens would likely be enough to save Harvie’s job.

...
 

Falcon1200

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Words I never thought I would say;

Thank you First Minister Yousaf!

Two incompetent extremists finally ousted from positions of power they should never, ever have occupied; Proponents of Proportional Representation please take note.
 

GusB

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Words I never thought I would say;

Thank you First Minister Yousaf!

Two incompetent extremists finally ousted from positions of power they should never, ever have occupied; Proponents of Proportional Representation please take note.
You're entitled to your opinion on their competence - for the record, I'm not too keen on Yousaf, either - but extremists?
 

Falcon1200

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but extremists?

By chance, yesterday I received through the door a 'Better Scotland' leaflet, extolling the benefits of an independent Scotland, eg an end to child and pensioner poverty, thanks to economic growth; An entire concept to which the Green Party is opposed!

Because FPTP has delivered such good results in Westminster.

As opposed to the wonders delivered by PR in Scotland? But at least we can always say 'it's worse down south.....'
 

DynamicSpirit

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As opposed to the wonders delivered by PR in Scotland? But at least we can always say 'it's worse down south.....'

Would you prefer the Scottish Parliament to have an overwhelming majority of SNP MSPs, with very little representation from any other party, despite the SNP only getting a minority of the vote? That is after all what FPTP would have delivered.

What's the Cass report?

A recently published independent review of gender services for young people, commissioned by NHS England and led a former president of he Royal College of Paediatrics, Hilary Cass. The report strongly criticised that much gender treatment has been prescribed based on very little medical evidence, and also a culture in which medical practitioners on both sides of the trans debate feel scared to give their opinions because of the toxicity in the debate.
 
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GusB

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By chance, yesterday I received through the door a 'Better Scotland' leaflet, extolling the benefits of an independent Scotland, eg an end to child and pensioner poverty, thanks to economic growth; An entire concept to which the Green Party is opposed!
Unless the leaflet was published by the Greens, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
 

oldman

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The problem with the Scottish PR system is the mix of FPTP and PR. If you are confident your party will win most of the FPTP seats in your region, you can use your regional list vote to choose a second party. The Greens benefit from this. In the days when Labour won most FPTP seats, a lot of Labour voters gave their regional vote to the Greens (hence the Green Robin Harper getting elected in Edinburgh). More recently it's been SNP voters voting Green as a second nationalist party, though now the Greens have competition from Alba.

Conversely if you think your party has no hope in the FPTP vote, you may decide to vote tactically in the constituency vote (a lot of Edinburgh South Tories and LibDems have helped elect a Labour MP), with your regional list vote going to your real choice of party. So neither vote truly represents what people think.
 

GusB

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Would you prefer the Scottish Parliament to have an overwhelming majority of SNP MSPs, with very little representation from any other party, despite the SNP only getting a minority of the vote? That is after all what FPTP would have delivered.
There must be a blue moon in the sky because we are actually in agreement on this point. First past the post currently means that the SNP has disproportionately more seats at Westminster when the likes of UKIP/Reform had a bigger share of the vote and got nothing. While I'm not unhappy to see them have no representation, it is unfair.

Similarly, the Conservatives would have had very little support, if any, in the first few years of the Scottish Parliament. Let's not forget that it was set up in the aftermath of Labour's 1997 landslide when every single Tory seat was wiped out. Had Holyrood elections used pure FPTP, it's likely that there would have been a similar pattern. The Conservative party would probably have picked up the odd seat here and there in subsequent SP elections, but it would be nowhere near the second largest party as it is now.

The problem with the Scottish PR system is the mix of FPTP and PR. If you are confident your party will win most of the FPTP seats in your region, you can use your regional list vote to choose a second party. The Greens benefit from this. In the days when Labour won most FPTP seats, a lot of Labour voters gave their regional vote to the Greens (hence the Green Robin Harper getting elected in Edinburgh). More recently it's been SNP voters voting Green as a second nationalist party, though now the Greens have competition from Alba.

Conversely if you think your party has no hope in the FPTP vote, you may decide to vote tactically in the constituency vote (a lot of Edinburgh South Tories and LibDems have helped elect a Labour MP), with your regional list vote going to your real choice of party. So neither vote truly represents what people think.
It's not an ideal system, but it's still better than pure FPTP. It has largely worked out for me over the years because I favour independence and the SNP had the biggest chance of taking my constituency seat (with the Tories being second most popular ). The Scottish Green Party have only really only stood for regional seats, with a few exceptions, and that is where my list vote has gone.
 

nw1

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Two incompetent extremists
Extremists? I don't live in Scotland, but from what I know of them, I'd say the SNP are considerably less extreme than the current Tory government.
finally ousted from positions of power they should never, ever have occupied; Proponents of Proportional Representation please take note.

Whereas a party that gets less than 45% of the vote holding absolute power is perfectly OK.... ;)
 
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hexagon789

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Extremists? I don't live in Scotland, but from what I know of them, I'd say the SNP are considerably less extreme than the current Tory government.


Whereas a party that gets less than 45% of the vote holding absolute power is perfectly OK.... ;)
I think Falcon was referring to the Scottish Greens...
 

nw1

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I think Falcon was referring to the Scottish Greens...

Ah ok, sorry for misunderstanding, there's been so much rap for the SNP on here, and they have been in some trouble this week, so I made an assumption it was them.

But to be fair my comment would still apply even if it was the Greens.
 

jfollows

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Labour has now introduced a motion of no confidence in the Scottish government, which is additional to the Conservatives’ motion of no confidence in Yousaf. If the Labour motion passes, it requires all ministers to resign but does still not automatically force a parliamentary election as long as new ministers are elected within 28 days.
 

oldman

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I feel a wee bit sorry for Yousaf. Having to follow two extremely charismatic leaders is hard, and when standing to lead the SNP he was seen as the continuity candidate, just when a lot of the SNP were looking for change; result: a narrow victory (52-48%). Then he inherits impossible climate commitments and difficult gender issues while in an alliance with the Greens. No wonder he's struggling.

He's come a long way by being very close to the leaders, now he's on his own.
 

Blindtraveler

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Words I never thought I would say;

Thank you First Minister Yousaf!

Two incompetent extremists finally ousted from positions of power they should never, ever have occupied; Proponents of Proportional Representation please take note.
Well said to both. PR is a totally moronic basket case of a system and when it delivers quality like this I cannot see anybody finding an even vaguely valid argument otherwise
 

nw1

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Well said to both. PR is a totally moronic basket case of a system and when it delivers quality like this I cannot see anybody finding an even vaguely valid argument otherwise

Moronic?

So are you happy with parties who get under 45% of the vote holding absolute power, and opposition parties having no say whatsoever?

PR is not moronic, it's fairer than the undemocratic nonsense that is FPTP.

Some of us think that Rishi Sunak is far more extreme than either the SNP or the Greens.
 
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