Some questions about delay repay and refunds

[172006]

Hi everyone,
I have some questions about compensation. Most are for myself and my family, one question is theoretical to avoid disclosing my identity.

• On this forum it's quite clear that I can claim delay repay on split tickets, not only for the delayed part of the journey. The TfW website asks for one photo, one ticket number and one price. What should I write?
• If I applied for a refund on a ticket and then realize that someone travelled with it, how should I go about withdrawing the claim? Does it matter whether there were ticket gates at the stations used? Does it make a difference that the passenger applied for delay repay while I applied for a refund? Can we get in trouble for this, or get both claims refused? GWR told me I don't need to take any action now.
• The railcard was left at home and we didn't want to get a penalty fare, so we bought another railcard at the station. Can we get compensation for that? Who should we apply to?
• If I planned a journey allowing less than the minimum connection time between trains (using one ticket), knowing that I can physically change platforms in less time, but then the first train is late and as a result I miss the connection and arrive an hour late, is there any possibility of delay repay?
• In the opposite scenario, a disabled passenger knows it will take them longer to change and allows enough time, but the first train is a bit late and they are left with only the minimum connection time and therefore miss the train, can they get delay repay?

 

[Haywain]

The railcard was left at home and we didn't want to get a penalty fare, so we bought another railcard at the station. Can we get compensation for that? Who should we apply to?

No, railcards are not refundable.

 

[skyhigh]

The railcard was left at home and we didn't want to get a penalty fare, so we bought another railcard at the station. Can we get compensation for that? Who should we apply to?

If you'd bought a new ticket, yes. Because you bought a new railcard, no.

If I planned a journey allowing less than the minimum connection time between trains (using one ticket), knowing that I can physically change platforms in less time, but then the first train is late and as a result I miss the connection and arrive an hour late, is there any possibility of delay repay?

No delay repay would be due.

 

[Haywain]

If I planned a journey allowing less than the minimum connection time between trains (using one ticket), knowing that I can physically change platforms in less time, but then the first train is late and as a result I miss the connection and arrive an hour late, is there any possibility of delay repay?

No, delay repay is only available when the journey complies with an itinerary that accords with minimum interchange times.

In the opposite scenario, a disabled passenger knows it will take them longer to change and allows enough time, but the first train is a bit late and they are left with only the minimum connection time and therefore miss the train, can they get delay repay?

Possibly, but minimum interchange times are expected to be sufficient for most passengers.

 

[Trainbike46]

• On this forum it's quite clear that I can claim delay repay on split tickets, not only for the delayed part of the journey. The TfW website asks for one photo, one ticket number and one price. What should I write?

Put all the tickets used in the picture; For price include the total price of all tickets involved; For ticket number, use one of the ticket numbers

The automated system will probably reject your claim; If it does, appeal it and explicitly state that you used split tickets in the appeal

 

[Watershed]

On this forum it's quite clear that I can claim delay repay on split tickets, not only for the delayed part of the journey. The TfW website asks for one photo, one ticket number and one price. What should I write?

I would take a photo/screenshot that shows all tickets held, use 00000 as the ticket number and use in the combined value of the tickets.

If I applied for a refund on a ticket and then realize that someone travelled with it, how should I go about withdrawing the claim? Does it matter whether there were ticket gates at the stations used? Does it make a difference that the passenger applied for delay repay while I applied for a refund? Can we get in trouble for this, or get both claims refused? GWR told me I don't need to take any action now.

You should contact the retailer, and explain the circumstances. You couldn't legally have both claims refused - if you've travelled and been delayed, you are still entitled to claim Delay Repay.

The railcard was left at home and we didn't want to get a penalty fare, so we bought another railcard at the station. Can we get compensation for that? Who should we apply to?

It's a slightly tricky situation. In theory, the best outcome is to be forced to buy a new ticket or to pay a Penalty Fare onboard, as you can then contact the customer services of the relevant TOC and provide a copy of the Railcard, upon which you will be given a refund of the new ticket/PF (once in any rolling 12 month period). However, there is no guarantee that you would be 'let off' with a new ticket/PF if you simply boarded - you could have your details taken with a view to prosecution.

Therefore, the course of action you took was safer but likely means you are only entitled to a refund of the unused Railcard discounted ticket(s). Of course, if they were Advances, you would get nothing at all.

If I planned a journey allowing less than the minimum connection time between trains (using one ticket), knowing that I can physically change platforms in less time, but then the first train is late and as a result I miss the connection and arrive an hour late, is there any possibility of delay repay?

In theory, yes - if you made a claim based on a journey involving just the first train (assuming it's sufficiently delayed to qualify for Delay Repay), it would probably be paid out. But of course that would be fraud by omission, as you would be omitting the fact that you actually made a journey involving several trains.

Your itinerary must meet the minimum connection time (or have been sold in conjunction with your ticket notwithstanding the fact that it doesn't meet the minimum connection time) in order for you to qualify for Delay Repay upon a missed connection.

In the opposite scenario, a disabled passenger knows it will take them longer to change and allows enough time, but the first train is a bit late and they are left with only the minimum connection time and therefore miss the train, can they get delay repay?

It's unclear. Arguably the passenger should allow more time, if they're not able to make the connection in the minimum connection time. I think you would be best off contacting the TOC concerned and asking for a gesture of goodwill.

 

[Trainbike46]

I would take a photo/screenshot that shows all tickets held, use 00000 as the ticket number and use in the combined value of the tickets.

Does using 00000 avoid auto-reject?

 

[Watershed]

Does using 00000 avoid auto-reject?

I don't think that the ticket number is checked in any automated fashion. It's the usual figure recommended if there isn't an obvious number.

 

[_toommm_]

I don't think that the ticket number is checked in any automated fashion. It's the usual figure recommended if there isn't an obvious number.

Some TOCs do check it in the sense that it enables the details to be filled in automatically e.g. Avanti and IIRC TPE do. Not sure if it helps the speed of the delay repay too but anecdotally they’ve come through really quickly when I’ve put it in.

 

[skyhigh]

Therefore, the course of action you took was safer but likely means you are only entitled to a refund of the unused Railcard discounted ticket(s). Of course, if they were Advances, you would get nothing at all.

But there were no unused tickets here - they bought a new Railcard, not new tickets.

 

[172006]

Thank you all for your replies.
When I contacted railcard customer services, they didn't know whether I could get a refund and whether there's a time limit to apply for it, but told me to go back to the station where I bought the second railcard and ask them. I didn't have the time to do that yet. From your replies it seems we should have bought new tickets rather than a new railcard, then have the discounted tickets refunded. (Minus £10 admin fee per ticket? Or doesn't it apply in this case?) So it would be a waste to look for the receipt, go back to the station and wait in line.
Another question I forgot to ask was about children using adult tickets. Are adult tickets also valid for children or could they get a penalty fare? If the ticket isn't Advance, can they get a partial refund?
So far I've applied for delay repay for my own ticket, got an email that information was missing, filled in the form they linked to, then got another email that it's being processed. I didn't think it would be possible to get delay repay for the journey that I didn't allow minimum connection time for, but I asked just in case. Had the first train arrived on time, I think I would have caught the second.

 

[skyhigh]

Another question I forgot to ask was about children using adult tickets. Are adult tickets also valid for children or could they get a penalty fare?

There's nothing wrong in having an adult ticket as a child.

So far I've applied for delay repay for my own ticket, got an email that information was missing, filled in the form they linked to, then got another email that it's being processed. I didn't think it would be possible to get delay repay for the journey that I didn't allow minimum connection time for, but I asked just in case. Had the first train arrived on time, I think I would have caught the second.

It doesn't matter if you would have caught it, you didn't have a valid itinerary and I expect when it's processed it will be declined as there was no delay to the fastest valid itinerary for your journey. If you do get any delay repay, it will strictly be on a goodwill basis.

When I contacted railcard customer services, they didn't know whether I could get a refund and whether there's a time limit to apply for it, but told me to go back to the station where I bought the second railcard and ask them. I didn't have the time to do that yet. From your replies it seems we should have bought new tickets rather than a new railcard, then have the discounted tickets refunded. (Minus £10 admin fee per ticket? Or doesn't it apply in this case?) So it would be a waste to look for the receipt, go back to the station and wait in line.

Railcards are non-refundable. Did you ask a member of staff what the best thing was to do, or just buy the new railcard yourself? If the former and the staff advised to buy a new railcard, you might have a case for at least a gesture of goodwill from the train company. If you just did it yourself, I don't think you'd get anything.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I doubt even if the staff suggested buying the Railcard you could get a refund , it’s quite often the cheapest soluti9n to this problem

 

[Haywain]

There's nothing wrong in having an adult ticket as a child.

Other than that it could be viewed as a bit silly to pay more than necessary.

 

[skyhigh]

Other than that it could be viewed as a bit silly to pay more than necessary.

There are very niche situations where it might work out better (i.e. from my local station to Leeds a Duo is slightly cheaper than 1x adult and 1x child Off-Peak Day Return) but yes, other than being a bit silly there's no other issue.

 

[JBuchananGB]

There's nothing wrong in having an adult ticket as a child.

There are also occasions when it can be advantageous to purchase a ticket for a child under the age of 5, such as when using a Friends & Family Railcard, and/or when a seat reservation is desired for the child.

 

[172006]

It doesn't matter if you would have caught it, you didn't have a valid itinerary and I expect when it's processed it will be declined as there was no delay to the fastest valid itinerary for your journey. If you do get any delay repay, it will strictly be on a goodwill basis.

Sorry I wasn't so clear. I applied for delay repay for one journey with split tickets, and allowed less than the minimum connection time for a different journey.

it could be viewed as a bit silly to pay more than necessary

True, but in my case we had already bought too many adult tickets and it was easier to use two of those for children rather than buying new tickets and applying for a refund for the adult tickets. It's already more than 28 days since then, but I was wondering if it would have been possible to get compensation for the extra cost, like when using only the outward portion of a return ticket.

 

[Haywain]

but I was wondering if it would have been possible to get compensation for the extra cost, like when using only the outward portion of a return ticket.

By compensation you mean a partial refund? I can’t imagine so as the ticket is used, and it was your choice to use an adult ticket for a child.

 

[172006]

The TOC asked for missing information. When I didn't provide it immediately, they said they would close my claim if I don't do so within 7 days. Are they allowed to do that?
All 7 passengers had to fill out the missing information form, despite having filled out the delay repay form completely. Most or all of this information was already on the delay repay form.
One passenger, when clicking on the link for missing information, found that a lot of the details had been changed: date, stations, ticket type but not price. Could someone have hacked their website?

 

[172006]

Thank you all for your help. My group finally got our delay repay claims approved for the journey we used split tickets for.

 

[172006]

Hello. I have more delayed journeys to deal with now.
On one journey the first train was cancelled. We took an earlier train in order to catch the connection. The second train was then delayed by just under an hour. Had we waited for a later train for the first part, we would have missed the connection. Should I claim from the first TOC? Although we arrived just under an hour late, the journey took more than an hour longer than planned since we started the journey earlier.
A similar thing happened on another journey. The first train we intended to take was the last one which would allow us to get to London before the Tube closes for the night. It was cancelled, but we weren't able to get to the station in time for an earlier train on that route so we used a taxi for part of the route. We had to leave more than 15 minutes before our planned departure in order to get to the connecting train by taxi. Our train arrived in London on time. Can we claim for the taxi fare? Both passengers used the same taxi so how would it work with each passenger having to claim delay repay separately?

 

[Benjwri]

On one journey the first train was cancelled. We took an earlier train in order to catch the connection. The second train was then delayed by just under an hour. Had we waited for a later train for the first part, we would have missed the connection. Should I claim from the first TOC? Although we arrived just under an hour late, the journey took more than an hour longer than planned since we started the journey earlier.

Unfortunately the extra time you incurred from taking an early train is highly unlikely to be accepted. You should claim from the journey you planned to take on the earlier train, so any delay repay will be paid by the second TOC as technically they caused you to be late on the journey you actually took.

The first train we intended to take was the last one which would allow us to get to London before the Tube closes for the night. It was cancelled, but we weren't able to get to the station in time for an earlier train on that route so we used a taxi for part of the route. We had to leave more than 15 minutes before our planned departure in order to get to the connecting train by taxi. Our train arrived in London on time. Can we claim for the taxi fare? Both passengers used the same taxi so how would it work with each passenger having to claim delay repay separately?

This one is more complicated, and other people might have a more detailed insight. Some of it will rest on if your ticket was for travel just to a London Terminal, or whether it includes cross London travel (Routed to a London Zone(s) or with a Maltese Cross).
Either way as the train you took arrived in London on time there is no automatic entitlement to any Delay Repay unfortunately. You will have to contact the customer service of the TOC to ask about options as a gesture of goodwill, it's unlikely you'll get the taxi fare refunded, although there is a possibility of a partial refund for the bit of your ticket you were not able to use for the disruption.

 

[m00036]

1) Unfortunately delay repay doesn't work the 'other way round' as it were (being forced to get an earlier train because of a known later cancellation). Therefore, your new itinerary is based on getting the earlier train to meet the connection, and the delay is calculated as the arrival time per that new itinerary compared to the actual arrival time (which appears to be 30-59 minutes). This delay repay is claimable from the second TOC.
2) No delay repay is due as you arrived on time. However, the taxi fare may well be recoverable from the TOC. It depends on whether you received (or attempt to get) any sort of guidance from the TOC before deciding to get the taxi. If customer services said to get a taxi, or you couldn't get through to them, then the taxi fare should be paid for in full by the TOC that cancelled your first leg. If you didn't do that, then they may still reimburse it, but it might be that they had already made other arrangements for such passengers. It's complicated because it sounds like it wasn't the last train to London, just the last train that arrives in time for the tube, but there's no harm in getting in touch with the TOC and explaining the situation. For future reference, it is best practice to a) contact customer services in such an instance, and b) it will normally work out better compensation-wise to accept the delay at the start and then claim back the extra expense on arrival in London (as you'd missed your connection due to their late-running). That said, if your London journey was to be made on contactless/Oyster then the split ticketing allowances become a very grey area!