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Someone be attemptive...

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Nick W

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I know English is a poor, illogical language.

But shouldn't a gripper mean anyone who grips tickets. The fact that they grip tickets means that they are doing their job, so should be a compliment. Is the word driver (anyone who drives) insulting?
 
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yorkie

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Nick W said:
I know English is a poor, illogical language.

But shouldn't a gripper mean anyone who grips tickets. The fact that they grip tickets means that they are doing their job, so should be a compliment. Is the word driver (anyone who drives) insulting?
I think the problem is that some of these words are slang words, used by enthusiasts. The word "driver" is in common use so anyone would know what that means.

http://www.dreadful.org.uk/jargon.htm

It's not just "grippers" who can be "desperate"; "bashers" can too ;)...

Desperate - Bash that involved huge distances for little gain or truly brave connections with the alternative being a "move to oblivion".
 

The Gricer

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Dare I just point out that you're all wasting your time arguing - sorry debating - here, as if Monday night is anything to go by, the chances are that all these posts will have been deleted by the morning.


Frank
 

TheSlash

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The Gricer said:
Dare I just point out that you're all wasting your time arguing - sorry debating - here, as if Monday night is anything to go by, the chances are that all these posts will have been deleted by the morning.


Frank
Ah well that would be a special part of the forum code that us normal members wouldn't know about. The "I'm right you're wrong moderate bit"
Basically, if you are an insecure moderator who bosses people around on the internet, but runs from chavs in real life, then this code applies to you
You have the right to post absolutely whatever you want. If several people are having a well mannered and civilised discussion, you have the right to wade in and the accusse the originator of causing trouble.
Further more, if somebody posts something that is not inkeeping with you're beliefs, you have the right to delete they're post before anybody else see's it, in order to preserve you're infalible position
The above is all covered under "RailUK - I'm in the **** emergency rules"
 

Guinness

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Nick W said:
If English is not illogical, to what does the first "it" refer?

Don't confuse the situation or the topic with your "illogical" posts.
 

Coxster

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How is a guard who checks tickets carefully 'desperate'? He's only doing his job :roll:
 

yorkie

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Coxster said:
How is a guard who checks tickets carefully 'desperate'? He's only doing his job :roll:
It's subjective, so difficult to answer, but it would be if they checked out every detail e.g. questioned you if you took an unusual route, or asking someone for their date of birth or something like that, could be seen as "desperate". It's just a term used by bashers, why don't you go on dreadful.org and ask them?
 

Guinness

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Ahh yes the whole country now speaks in Basher. Why not don't they put that in the Curriculum I wonder.....
 

bunnahabhain

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yorkie said:
It's subjective, so difficult to answer, but it would be if they checked out every detail e.g. questioned you if you took an unusual route, or asking someone for their date of birth or something like that, could be seen as "desperate". It's just a term used by bashers, why don't you go on dreadful.org and ask them?
So you'd rather they were so slack at their job that the railway lost millions of pounds each year?

I certainly wouldnt like to be called a 'desperate gripper' or 'desperate guard'. As a Guard or Ticket Inspector it is your duty to uphold the rules and regulations of the company, not to be slack at your job, lazyness costs lives, being overzealous might not make you popular with passengers, but at least there is more chance that everybody will have paid for their journey, and they will reach their destination safely.

*edit*

Mr Slash, I agree with your opinion in your post above in it's entirety.
 

yorkie

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Jamie said:
So you'd rather they were so slack at their job that the railway lost millions of pounds each year?
Slack? So guards are either "desperate" or "slack"? There's nothing in between? That's news to me....
Jamie said:
I certainly wouldnt like to be called a 'desperate gripper' or 'desperate guard'. As a Guard or Ticket Inspector it is your duty to uphold the rules and regulations of the company, not to be slack at your job, lazyness costs lives, being overzealous might not make you popular with passengers, but at least there is more chance that everybody will have paid for their journey, and they will reach their destination safely.

*edit*

Mr Slash, I agree with your opinion in your post above in it's entirety.
So guards who are not "desperate" are "costing lives"? How do you work that out?
[EDIT]
Chaz said:
Ahh yes the whole country now speaks in Basher. Why not don't they put that in the Curriculum I wonder.....
Huh? I have no idea what you're getting at. If it's aimed at me, I didn't bring the subject up.
 

Craig

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yorkie said:
So guards who are not "desperate" are "costing lives"? How do you work that out?

"Careless gripping costs lives"

"Your local TOC needs YOU"
kitchener.gif


etc.
 

bunnahabhain

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Yorkie said:
Slack? So guards are either "desperate" or "slack"? There's nothing in between? That's news to me....
There is the right way to do things, and there is the dangerous way to do things, there is no inbetween.
 

Lewisham2221

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Jamie said:
There is the right way to do things, and there is the dangerous way to do things, there is no inbetween.
Erm, riiiiiight.

So if a conducter does not 100% follow the rule book in checking tickets, he automatically makes the railway a dangerous place?? You do talk a load of bollocks...
 

metrocammel

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So an over-zealous "gripper" is good then?

An example of a "extremely-desparate" gripper wasting time (so not checking everyone on the train).

A person shows an in-date (even with boxes filled in!) "CST PKS 4-8 RVR" to Mr. John Lee, a notoriously desparate Manchester (XC) man, the rover happened to be purchased at Plymouth (though the issued at place is insignificant on a rover). However, this guard, immediately checks us as we leave Piccadilly, and says "Plymouth Coast and Peaks, not valid in Manchester I dont think." We try to explain that a Coast & Peaks is valid as far as Stafford, from Manchester, but he says "this is obviously valid in the South West!" He ends up ringing retail control, who appear to tell him he was clearly wrong. This "wasted time" took us from near Longsight to Stockport (where he unlocked the doors), then from Stockport to about Poynton- all that for a perfectly valid ticket! Any normal guard, (or gripper!) could have easily completed to whole train by that time, without endangering anybodies life! ;)

Another experience I've had with a guard who would be more suited as members of the Gestapo, was with Gordon Jones (who was nick-named Adolf Hitler), another notorious Virgin guard, from Liverpool. He has thankfully now retired, but he was infamous. This situation was nothing to do with ticketing, but was with "heads out". Me and a friend were on a 87+57 drag to Liveeerpoool from Crewe when he came down and told us to sit down (we weren't actually doing HO at the time, just standing in the vestibule), but another guy had his video-camera in a sort of frame set up to film out of the window, and Jones told him to remove it and he does so. However he then puts it back up. I assume old' Adolf comes down and tells him to take it down. This is now the embarrassing bit. He walks down the very empty train, and "cordons off" the front bit of the train, which contained me, my friend, and this other guy. He then gets on his mobile, and calls the police(!) At Lime Street four policemen were waiting for us off the train, (and annoyingly I miss my opportunity to phot 87004 with a Dellner-less 57) They take us into the station, take our details, and tell us we've been accused of spying for the photographer (!) so he could take his stuff down if he came down(!) This was utter rubbish, and the police man who questioned me said as much. He said that they have in the past considered charging him with wasting police time, as once he called the police for a person whose ticket was a whole 5p too cheap(!) We were of course let off straight away, and they appologied for the inconvinience. This is a classic example of a desparate guard who could cause more trouble by being over-zealous. Surely those four police-men could have been sorting out real crime rather than sorting out a situation that was really petty. This seems to be the opposite to your comment Jamie.
 

devon_metro

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metrocammel said:
So an over-zealous "gripper" is good then?

An example of a "extremely-desparate" gripper wasting time (so not checking everyone on the train).

A person shows an in-date (even with boxes filled in!) "CST PKS 4-8 RVR" to Mr. John Lee, a notoriously desparate Manchester (XC) man, the rover happened to be purchased at Plymouth (though the issued at place is insignificant on a rover). However, this guard, immediately checks us as we leave Piccadilly, and says "Plymouth Coast and Peaks, not valid in Manchester I dont think." We try to explain that a Coast & Peaks is valid as far as Stafford, from Manchester, but he says "this is obviously valid in the South West!" He ends up ringing retail control, who appear to tell him he was clearly wrong. This "wasted time" took us from near Longsight to Stockport (where he unlocked the doors), then from Stockport to about Poynton- all that for a perfectly valid ticket! Any normal guard, (or gripper!) could have easily completed to whole train by that time, without endangering anybodies life! ;)
:lol:

He knows his ticketing stuff, i would have known that and i have only just discovered the CDR! ;)
 

Lewisham2221

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There are indeed a minority of slightly over-enthusiastic guards. One chappy who works for CT, who rather aggressively threatened to confiscate a Rover ticket because of a comment that rovers don't have to be stamped each time they are checked, comes to mind.
 

Guinness

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Lewisham2221 said:
There are indeed a minority of slightly over-enthusiastic guards. One chappy who works for CT, who rather aggressively threatened to confiscate a Rover ticket because of a comment that rovers don't have to be stamped each time they are checked, comes to mind.

Oh him!

Personally I have nothing against guards or RPIs and at the end of the day they're doing the job they are paid for. Some do it better than others and some take a more relaxed approach. The ones who do 'over-check' things are the people who combat fare evasions, according to a person within VT who deals with such matters (Can't say anymore). Most of these people who do 'over-check' tickets such as "Ringing up about Validity" are the ones who save the company money and prove the smart arse 'bashers' who think they know every single knot and turn in the fares manual, wrong. While I first started browsing the internet I came across a forum that was similar to this but seem to have a number of threads relating to Fare Evasion and with one group of people boasting about they got away with a Saver on a Peak Time train accompanied by another rail ticket (Fake) with "Saver Peak Add-on" that fooled the Guard. Another example is one person who got hold of many Virgin Traveller Tickets which enable the person to travel free First Class on Virgin with a Traveller Card, that was bought on eBay apparently People like this call them selves "Enthusiasts" of the Railways but think it's great to defraud them and help cost them millions of pound of debt a year. I personally label them people, C-u-n-t-s.
[EDIT]
yorkie said:
If it's aimed at me, I didn't bring the subject up.

Can you give me one reason why I would aim it at you?
 

87015

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Chaz said:
Personally I People like this call them selves "Enthusiasts" of the Railways but think it's great to defraud them and help cost them millions of pound of debt a year. I personally label them people, C-u-n-t-s.

Yes, there are some, but don't tar everyone with the same brush. Same as some photters/videoing peeps think nothing of trespassing, the majority don't.
 

Guinness

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87015 said:
Yes, there are some, but don't tar everyone with the same brush. Same as some photters/videoing peeps think nothing of trespassing, the majority don't.

I'm not saying that everyone is. Although I agree with you over the Trespassing subject.
 

metrocammel

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Chaz said:
While I first started browsing the internet I came across a forum that was similar to this but seem to have a number of threads relating to Fare Evasion and with one group of people boasting about they got away with a Saver on a Peak Time train accompanied by another rail ticket (Fake) with "Saver Peak Add-on" that fooled the Guard. Another example is one person who got hold of many Virgin Traveller Tickets which enable the person to travel free First Class on Virgin with a Traveller Card, that was bought on eBay apparently People like this call them selves "Enthusiasts" of the Railways but think it's great to defraud them and help cost them millions of pound of debt a year.



That explains why the Traveller schemes free tickets for it's members has been cancelled for the time being, and I agree tw*ts who evade / dodge / eff the fare like that is totally wrong, and they do give geniune enthusiasts a bad name, however so-called desparate RPI's / Guards who treat enthusiasts almost like scum- fare evaders because they have a rover/ ranger which the guard has never heard of, which is his problem, at the end of the day if an ticket inspector does not know which tickets are valid / invalid, he should not treat the passenger like a criminal until he is proved wrong, like the VXC man I mentioned earlier did, and even after that he did not even consider saying a simple "sorry". So is bad customer relations the penalty enthusiasts have to pay for getting good value fares with rovers, instead of extremely expensive point to point tickets?

Chaz said:
People like this call them selves "Enthusiasts" of the Railways but think it's great to defraud them and help cost them millions of pound of debt a year.

Come on Chaz, I really can't imagine a few "dubious" enthusiasts would cost the railway "millions of pounds a year", the real problem are in inner-city places, such as SE London, where it appears to be the norm NOT to buy tickets (for people not going thru' or into London), as there are no guards, and I imagine no RPI's due to their personal security in these areas. In perspective I imagine it is a tiny fraction of those "millions of pounds" that is lost down to enthusiasts, and out of interest, how do they actually work out how much the railways have lost due to evasion, as surely it is impossible to work out a realistic figure, it is hard enough to find how many passengers there are, never mind how many have paid or not!?
 

yorkie

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I don't think using a peak train on a Saver is going to cost them £millions - after all all you have to do is get a railcard and suddenly savers are valid on ALL Virgin trains. :o If only GNER did that...! ;)
 

87015

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metrocammel said:
Come on Chaz, I really can't imagine a few "dubious" enthusiasts would cost the railway "millions of pounds a year", the real problem are in inner-city places, such as SE London, where it appears to be the norm NOT to buy tickets (for people not going thru' or into London), as there are no guards, and I imagine no RPI's due to their personal security in these areas. In perspective I imagine it is a tiny fraction of those "millions of pounds" that is lost down to enthusiasts, and out of interest, how do they actually work out how much the railways have lost due to evasion, as surely it is impossible to work out a realistic figure, it is hard enough to find how many passengers there are, never mind how many have paid or not!?

Well said Mr Metcam.
Cranks may save a few quid here and there with some "effing" but are still paying £££ into the railways (or shareholders-take your pick) coffers.

If you are worried about revenue loss, go take it up with the systematic fair evasion of many areas...from "normals" not cranks as thats where your millions are lost.
 

Guinness

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metrocammel said:
Come on Chaz, I really can't imagine a few "dubious" enthusiasts would cost the railway "millions of pounds a year", the real problem are in inner-city places, such as SE London, where it appears to be the norm NOT to buy tickets (for people not going thru' or into London), as there are no guards, and I imagine no RPI's due to their personal security in these areas. In perspective I imagine it is a tiny fraction of those "millions of pounds" that is lost down to enthusiasts, and out of interest, how do they actually work out how much the railways have lost due to evasion, as surely it is impossible to work out a realistic figure, it is hard enough to find how many passengers there are, never mind how many have paid or not!?

I didn't say they caused millions of pounds, they add to millions of pound of debt.
 

voyagerdude220

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yorkie said:
It's subjective, so difficult to answer, but it would be if they checked out every detail e.g. questioned you if you took an unusual route, or asking someone for their date of birth or something like that, could be seen as "desperate". It's just a term used by bashers, why don't you go on dreadful.org and ask them?

What- like me next week doing Preston to Watford for £31, instead of £100+ which VT west coast wanted for an Advance first single on the 07:00-09:49 departures? At least i'll be able to chill out in new street's FC lounge..
 

yorkie

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voyagerdude220 said:
What- like me next week doing Preston to Watford for £31, instead of £100+ which VT west coast wanted for an Advance first single on the 07:00-09:49 departures? At least i'll be able to chill out in new street's FC lounge..
I doubt you'd get ever questioned over going via Brum on an 'any permitted' ticket, nothing unusual about that route although it does take a lot longer. (I know some stations have cheaper 'Route direct' tickets for use on the trent valley only - unless it's shut!). However I suspect you have an advance purchase ticket? In which case you'd only get questioned if you were not on the stated train.
 

voyagerdude220

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yorkie said:
I doubt you'd get ever questioned over going via Brum on an 'any permitted' ticket, nothing unusual about that route although it does take a lot longer. (I know some stations have cheaper 'Route direct' tickets for use on the trent valley only - unless it's shut!). However I suspect you have an advance purchase ticket? In which case you'd only get questioned if you were not on the stated train.

Ye-i-no. Just out of interest, If i miss (due to connections around London) my 16:46 ex Euston to Preston next Monday, on the way up north, on Virgin Value tickets, and jumped on the 17:15, what would the TM say to me about not being on the 16:46 (I would explain way i'm not on the 16:46 to him/her) ?
 
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