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South London Line before London Overground

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yeti

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I often commuted from Peckham Rye in the 1990's and 2000's. There were 4 trains an hour: two the south London line trains and two from Dartford. Unfortunately Dartford trains left a couple of minutes after the former and followed it slowly down the LBSC tracks to past Clapham High Street so would get to Victoria just before it, so in practice it was a half hourly service. The train was always two coaches long and never packed even in rush hour.
When its demise was announced I went to a packed protest meeting in a lecture theatre of Kings College Hospital which is next to Denmark Hill station. There are streets of large houses there and their rather entitled occupants were the protestors. Illogically they were most put out about losing the service to Victoria despite the Dartford train which ran at the same time carrying on. They were stirred up by the chair of the meeting, an alpha male consultant who did what I think is called shroud waving. Patients would die if they could not get easily to hospital etc. From that perspective Clapham Junction connected with many more people. He then gave the real reason why he was so cross and had organised the meeting. This was that his speciality was sports injuries and with a direct link to London Bridge he could do two consultations in his lunch hour (£££) but if he had to get off and wait for a following train from Tulse Hill he could only do one. I felt sorry for the manager from Network Rail who had given up a summer evening to be presented as the baddy.
It was obvious the Overground service would be an improvement but the south London railway network is too confusing for most people to get a handle on. It quickly became obvious to everyone that the new service was better and this was reflected in local house price increases. No more complaints.
One interesting fact that came out of the meeting was the number of paths on the south London line and the Catford loop reserved for non existent freight trains from the Channel Tunnel.
 
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SE%Traveller

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I often commuted from Peckham Rye in the 1990's and 2000's. There were 4 trains an hour: two the south London line trains and two from Dartford. Unfortunately Dartford trains left a couple of minutes after the former and followed it slowly down the LBSC tracks to past Clapham High Street so would get to Victoria just before it, so in practice it was a half hourly service. The train was always two coaches long and never packed even in rush hour.
When its demise was announced I went to a packed protest meeting in a lecture theatre of Kings College Hospital which is next to Denmark Hill station. There are streets of large houses there and their rather entitled occupants were the protestors. Illogically they were most put out about losing the service to Victoria despite the Dartford train which ran at the same time carrying on. They were stirred up by the chair of the meeting, an alpha male consultant who did what I think is called shroud waving. Patients would die if they could not get easily to hospital etc. From that perspective Clapham Junction connected with many more people. He then gave the real reason why he was so cross and had organised the meeting. This was that his speciality was sports injuries and with a direct link to London Bridge he could do two consultations in his lunch hour (£££) but if he had to get off and wait for a following train from Tulse Hill he could only do one. I felt sorry for the manager from Network Rail who had given up a summer evening to be presented as the baddy.
It was obvious the Overground service would be an improvement but the south London railway network is too confusing for most people to get a handle on. It quickly became obvious to everyone that the new service was better and this was reflected in local house price increases. No more complaints.
One interesting fact that came out of the meeting was the number of paths on the south London line and the Catford loop reserved for non existent freight trains from the Channel Tunnel.
I used to regularly commute from Denmark Hill to Victoria and agree when running the Dartford Train was always the better option. Indeed in its last year of operation the Dartford Train left VIC at XX:39 with the Southern one at XX:41 I remember from bitter experience that missing the Dartford Train (usually Platform 7) usually meant missing the Southern (9-12) too as the walk from the tube at least two minutes longer!

There was a genuine issue that the Dartfords only ran until 8pm Monday to Saturday so outside those hours there was only the Southern Service. In the end when the Southern serivce was withdrawn the hours of the Dartfords were extended but it came quite late in the day as i recall.
 

Sm5

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21 Oct 2016
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I used the Southern 456’s quite often on this line, usually to goto Wandsworth Road to watch a railtour, freight or eurostar workings.

Never saw many using Wandsworth Road (I still dont today), Denmark Hill, Peckham Rye were quite busy (still are).”

A few more services to Battersea Park could be useful ( Ive seen the odd divert go there when somethings gone pop at Clapham Junction).

Ive several videos of this line ( as nature of my reason above).

it wasnt all 456’s.. 455’s had a go too, indeed the last ever train was 455 operated. Ive the timetable from the information boards at London Bridge from that day, rescued before they were binned… As always the protestors were very few but got disproportionately more media coverage than logic and their 5 mins of fame out lasts the event itself…

455812 did the last service, 2311 from Victoria, 2315 at P1 Battersea Park.
The comical moment was 4 guys with a coffin who boarded at Victoria, got off at Battersea park, opened the coffin lid and in it was a guy in Scottish kilt who started playing bag pipes as the train left. There was also two guys with a guitar and one with a flute dancing in the front coach, who serendaded it out too.

 
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contrex

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St Werburghs, Bristol
When I was aged 12 to 13 I used to get Southern Region Rail Rovers on summer Saturdays and part of the fun was riding a green 2-EPB the whole length of the South London Line (and back again, often), and as my dentist was close to East Brixton station I used to badger my mother to take me there from Tulse Hill via Peckham Rye, even though we could walk there and back much quicker. She usually gave in, bless her.
 

frodshamfella

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I used this service a few times years ago, it was a curious little service which I think many didn't know of. If you wanted to get from London Bridge to Victoria and didn't fancy going up and down to the underground plus a change, it was actually quite a relaxing option. Particularly with luggage. I remember it being only two carriages which was quite unusual, as 4 seemed the minimum. It also stopped at South Bermondsey which looked like a platform in the middle of nowhere up high.
 

BahrainLad

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I used to use it in the summers to go from Clapham to London Bridge, iirc the 0749 and 0819 was a 377 so had airconditioning. Much more pleasant than the Northern line.
 

contrex

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St Werburghs, Bristol
When the Railway magazine covered the closure of East Brixton station in 1976, the article included a picture of the single passenger who alighted.
 

43066

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Revealing my age or your youth, it certainly did until the 70s remodelling :)
So it did !

It's a shame they got rid of them !

Thanks, I must admit I was totally unaware of that! They clearly did a thorough job of removing them. Of course St John’s also had fast line platforms originally, removed during the same remodelling.

I now feel a little less old for being able to remember A Stock using New Cross platform D ;).
 

D6130

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I now feel a little less old for being able to remember A Stock using New Cross platform D ;)
I feel a little more old for remembering 'O' and 'P' stock with clerestory roofs using that platform on occasional visits to friends of my mother's in Bexleyheath in the late 60s/early 70s....observed, of course, from the comfort of a damp, smelly and bouncy 4-EPB.
 

D6130

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No clerestories on O/P (CO/CP) stock; Q Stock (some cars flared like O, P and R stock, others clerestoried) was used on the ELL until 1971.
Quite right. My knowledge of veteran LT stock is somewhat lacking....must have been Q stock. I have a vague recollection that there were two different types - one with a flat-fronted clerestory roof and one with a more streamlined sloping cab roof front. Whenever we stopped at New Cross there always seemed to be one or the other either entering, leaving or standing in the bay platform. Bear in mind that I was only 13/14 in 1971!
 

contrex

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Quite right. My knowledge of veteran LT stock is somewhat lacking....must have been Q stock. I have a vague recollection that there were two different types - one with a flat-fronted clerestory roof and one with a more streamlined sloping cab roof front. Whenever we stopped at New Cross there always seemed to be one or the other either entering, leaving or standing in the bay platform. Bear in mind that I was only 13/14 in 1971!
The Q Stock was put together mainly out of converted older stock, so the trains could have a very mixed appearance. You're right about the different Q stock driving cars, a Google image search should find you some pics of G stock (became Q23, flat fronted) and N Stock (became Q35, rounded cab roof) on Google Images. I personally didn't like the Q23 style, and found the Q35 design made a very handsome looking unit. Below are G/Q23 on the left and N/Q35 on the right. I have a slight start on you as I was 13/14 in 1966.
1681741823461.png
 

D6130

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The Q Stock was put together mainly out of converted older stock, so the trains could have a very mixed appearance. You're right about the different Q stock driving cars, a Google image search should find you some pics of G stock (became Q23, flat fronted) and N Stock (became Q35, rounded cab roof) on Google Images. I personally didn't like the Q23 style, and found the Q35 design made a very handsome looking unit. Below are G/Q23 on the left and N/Q35 on the right. I have a slight start on you as I was 13/14 in 1966.
Good photos! Was the four car unit on the left working the Olympia shuttle?
 

rogercov

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It's drifting off the original topic of this thread (sorry), but the first stock I remember on the ELL at New Cross was F stock, probably around 1960. These were the ones with oval cab windows.
 
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