South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Robertj21a]

Genuine question, how much will reopening/opening cost? A few million, peanuts really. Just get on and do it, it’s been spoken about for 10+ years now.

What other (far more justified?) projects would you put back in order to pay for these 'few million' ?

 

[Dai Corner]

What other (far more justified?) projects would you put back in order to pay for these 'few million' ?

One local one is the dualling of the Hirwaun-Dowlais Top section of the Heads of the Valleys road. One of the final actions of the last Government was to approve a design, build and maintain contract for this costing £30m a year for the next 30 years. Probably too late to cancel now without incurring penalties.

 

[Robertj21a]

One local one is the dualling of the Hirwaun-Dowlais Top section of the Heads of the Valleys road. One of the final actions of the last Government was to approve a design, build and maintain contract for this costing £30m a year for the next 30 years. Probably too late to cancel now without incurring penalties.

Wouldn't that have far more benefits, for far more people, than your suggestion?

 

[Tumbleweed]

Not sure anyone has seen this yet, this the study for line through Creigiau etc.

https://cardiff.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s49380/Cabinet%2017%20June%202021%20NW%20Corridor%20App%20A%20reduce.pdf?LLL=-1

Scope and Purpose

Mott MacDonald was commissioned by Transport for Wales (TfW), the Welsh Government, Cardiff City Council and Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council to undertake a WelTAG Stage 1 assessment of Cardiff’s North West Corridor. The study area defined to guide the assessment is shown in Figure 0.1. Broadly, the term North West Corridor is used to describe the segment of Cardiff bordered by the A4232 link road in the West and the A470 and Merthyr rail line in the east. The Corridor extends into the southern part of Rhondda Cynon Taf and incorporates the settlements of Pontyclun, Llantrisant, Beddau and Llantwit Fardre. The North West Corridor incorporates a number of Strategic Sites in Cardiff and Rhondda Cynon Taf, including the new Plasdwr district of Cardiff which is in the process of being delivered. Within current planning horizons, there are five Strategic Sites within the North West Corridor with the potential for over 10,000 new homes. Plans for developments of this scale, without corresponding firm proposals for a mass transit solution, have led to public concerns of increased traffic congestion affecting north-west Cardiff and parts of Rhondda Cynon Taf. WelTAG is the ‘Welsh transport appraisal guidance’ produced by Welsh Government. The overarching purpose of the WelTAG Stage 1 study is to identify a short-list of potential public transport solutions for the corridor, in response to a set of objectives that have been derived from a specific set of existing and future transport-related issues. The focus of this assessment is on mass transit solutions for the North West Corridor. Therefore, improvements to the highway network and active travel schemes are not a primary focus of the study. At WelTAG Stage 1, a range of strategic options are identified in order to generate a short list of options to consider taking forward for more detailed assessment. It should be noted that as this is a high level strategic assessment, no formal decision or commitment has been taken to progress with any specific mode, route, or alignment at this time.

 

[Dai Corner]

Wouldn't that have far more benefits, for far more people, than your suggestion?

Yes.

I haven't made any suggestions in relation to Hirwaun, except that if it was decided to reopen the line it could be done more cheaply as a tramway than as a 'heavy' railway. After all, they're acquiring train-trams; May as well use the tram capability.

 

[Cardiff123]

RAIL magazine journalists are well known for writing factually correct articles aren't they?
Here's their take on the recent progress of the Metro control centre at Taffs Well, spot the obvious and glaring mistakes that wouldn't have been written with a tiny bit of research

 

[daodao]

RAIL magazine journalists are well known for writing factually correct articles aren't they?
Here's their take on the recent progress of the Metro control centre at Taffs Well, spot the obvious and glaring mistakes that wouldn't have been written with a tiny bit of research.

One merely needs to look at a map to identify where Taffs Well is located (well to the south-east of Pontypridd) and where the junctions are sited for the different Valley lines - that for the Rhymney Valley being just north of Cardiff Queen St.

As for the trains to be maintained at Taffs Well depot, they don't include either the class 756 tri-mode units or the class 231 dmus, which are both to be based at Canton.

I have presumably missed loads of other errors.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

As for the trains to be maintained at Taffs Well depot, they don't include either the class 756 tri-mode units or the class 231 dmus, which are both to be based at Canton.

To be fair, the article says that the 756 and 231 units may be stabled at Taff's Well from next summer not that they will be based there when the system becomes operational.

It could well be the case that the 756 and 231 units will be stored in Taff's Well initially given the limited capacity at Canton.

 

[edwin_m]

Isn't Taffs Well for tram-trains only, due to the very tight curves?

 

[Cardiff123]

One merely needs to look at a map to identify where Taffs Well is located (well to the south-east of Pontypridd) and where the junctions are sited for the different Valley lines - that for the Rhymney Valley being just north of Cardiff Queen St.

As for the trains to be maintained at Taffs Well depot, they don't include either the class 756 tri-mode units or the class 231 dmus, which are both to be based at Canton.

I have presumably missed loads of other errors.

Correct on both counts, your prize is in the post

To be fair, the article says that the 756 and 231 units may be stabled at Taff's Well from next summer not that they will be based there when the system becomes operational.

It could well be the case that the 756 and 231 units will be stored in Taff's Well initially given the limited capacity at Canton.

TfW are receiving the class 398 tram-trains before they get the 756s for the Rhymney line, and TfW have never stated in any publicity that the 231s or 756s will be stored or maintained at Taffs Well. I suspect tue journalist confused the Stadler tram-trains for the Taff Valley lines with the Stadler DMU's/DEMU's for elsewhere in the Metro operating area.
Upgrade work has been taking place for a few months now to ready Canton for the arrival of the 231s next year, and later the 756s, with 150s being stabled at various locations near Cardiff overnight to allow the work to take place.

 

[hilly]

First time into Cardiff in a while today (home working) and noticed they’ve disconnected the bay platform (p1) at queen street - what’s the plan for this?

 

[PHILIPE]

First time into Cardiff in a while today (home working) and noticed they’ve disconnected the bay platform (p1) at queen street - what’s the plan for this?

No. It is an infrastructure problem involving the points. I can't turn the details up now but I think the bridge came into it.

 

[Cardiff123]

Given that when the class 398 tram-trains come into service, the plan is for Cardiff bay to be served by 6tph from Merthyr, Treherbert and Aberdare (2tph from each), I can't see how P1 will have any operational use when the TT is re-cast ready for the class 398s to start operation in 2023.

 

[PHILIPE]

Any Bay turn backs at Queen St have only occurred at quiet times for well over a year now when Platform 2 can be used. Timetables have been operating with through trains from Caerphilly, Pontypridd and Coryton replacing the shuttle.

 

[Cardiff123]

Any Bay turn backs at Queen St have only occurred at quiet times for well over a year now when Platform 2 can be used. Timetables have been operating with through trains from Caerphilly, Pontypridd and Coryton replacing the shuttle.

Yes, that's my point really. Regardless of what the infrastructure related reason is for P1 being taken out of use, I think for the forseeable future, operationally it's already redundant now anyway.

 

[anthony263]

Think.one problem is the bridge deck the line from.platform 1 runs on needs work ive heard

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Yes, that's my point really. Regardless of what the infrastructure related reason is for P1 being taken out of use, I think for the forseeable future, operationally it's already redundant now anyway.

That has to be right, I think. Certainly that will be the case once the Metro is fully up and running.

I suppose it might be possible to run additional shuttle services when and if the new arena opens so it's probably worth retaining the infrastructure.

 

[CapitalStar378]

That has to be right, I think. Certainly that will be the case once the Metro is fully up and running.

I suppose it might be possible to run additional shuttle services when and if the new arena opens so it's probably worth retaining the infrastructure.

Has anyone seen any plans for the Bay branch? I know it's going to be doubled so presumably there will have to be a big reorganisation of the track layout around Queen Street anyway

 

[Cardiff123]

Has anyone seen any plans for the Bay branch? I know it's going to be doubled so presumably there will have to be a big reorganisation of the track layout around Queen Street anyway

There are going to be major track and signalling works south of Queen St, but unless P1 somehow becomes a through platform, it's difficult to see how it will get much, if any use under the new TT once the tram-trains are running.

 

[southern442]

Wouldn't that have far more benefits, for far more people, than your suggestion?

Short-term maybe, but long term it will just lead to exactly the same problems as we have now, just with more cars. But that's a bit OT.

 

[PaulHarding150]

There are going to be major track and signalling works south of Queen St, but unless P1 somehow becomes a through platform, it's difficult to see how it will get much, if any use under the new TT once the tram-trains are running.

Platform one will become redundant when the Metro is up and running as nothing will start/terminal at Queen Street. Platforms 2 to 5 will get busier but with 2 ups and 2 downs the station should cope.

The bridge over newport road and the junction just north of it could get interesting however.

 

[TrainAndBike]

Platform one will become redundant when the Metro is up and running as nothing will start/terminal at Queen Street. Platforms 2 to 5 will get busier but with 2 ups and 2 downs the station should cope.

The bridge over newport road and the junction just north of it could get interesting however.

Perhaps they should return to the station configuration with the twin bridge restored. The Rhymney Railway using Platforms 1 and 2. The Taff Vale Railway using platforms 3 and 4.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Perhaps they should return to the station configuration with the twin bridge restored. The Rhymney Railway using Platforms 1 and 2. The Taff Vale Railway using platforms 3 and 4.

As previously noted, that would increase the project cost considerably, and this is a project with a tight budget. But it is being done, unlike many over the border in England.

And besides, you need half of the Taff Vale services to cross over to the Cardiff Bay branch somewhere so even with four tracks across the bridge it wouldn't eliminate conflicting services.

I would imagine fleet of foot trams will be much more nimble at clearing the junction, especially travelling north from a standing start once they've got the signal to go from Queen St station, than the existing rolling stock.

 

[59CosG95]

TFW's website have reported that the Aberdare Line between Pontypridd & Aberdare is closed for an extended period (28 Aug to 12 September) for metro works. NCE have said:

"Engineers began a 16-day possession of the railway line between Aberdare and Pontypridd on Saturday 28 August to carry out complex work including repositioning signals and installing new equipment.

Tasks also include removing vegetation, realigning track and installing foundations for overhead line gear that will eventually allow tram-trains to use the line and slash journey times to Cardiff city centre.

Work will be carried out 24 hours a day with this section of the line not set to reopen to passengers until Monday 13 September."

Now, I'm assuming that this refers to between Aberdare & Abercynon Jn, as the Merthyr branch is still very much open.

Does anyone in the area have any pictures of progress so far? Or will the scale become clearer post-blockade?

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

TFW's website have reported that the Aberdare Line between Pontypridd & Aberdare is closed for an extended period (28 Aug to 12 September) for metro works. NCE have said:

Now, I'm assuming that this refers to between Aberdare & Abercynon Jn, as the Merthyr branch is still very much open.

Does anyone in the area have any pictures of progress so far? Or will the scale become clearer post-blockade?

Well, presumably Pontypridd is where Aberdare passengers will transfer from bus to rail or vice versa.

I assume that Merthyr trains will continue to stop at Abercynon for local passengers.

 

[PHILIPE]

Well, presumably Pontypridd is where Aberdare passengers will transfer from bus to rail or vice versa.

I assume that Merthyr trains will continue to stop at Abercynon for local passengers.

Merthyr trains calling Abercynon as normal but probably not convenient location for train/bus transfers. There are some narrow streets there and probably insufficient room to hold buses

 

[Cardiff123]

Perhaps they should return to the station configuration with the twin bridge restored. The Rhymney Railway using Platforms 1 and 2. The Taff Vale Railway using platforms 3 and 4.

In an ideal world with an unlimited budget, yes, this would happen. But as Brissie Girl says below, the project is being done on a finite budget with no room for over-spend.
Not only that, but several buildings either side of the bridge would need to be demolished to claw back railway land lost in the 1980s, including an NCP multi-storey car park, the Cardiff University Trevithick and Queen's buildings, and a more recent massive multi-storey apartment block. In reality, it's just not going to happen. A potential 3rd span across a widened bridge has been mooted over the years but has never come to fruition.

As Brissie Girl also points out, 6tph from the Taff Valley will need to cross the north junction throat anyway to get to the current P2 for the Bay line, unless the junctions are re-configured and Taff Valley tram-trains will be able to enter Queen St from the north into the current P4 and then cross over to get down to the Bay at Queen St south junction when that is re-modelled.

As previously noted, that would increase the project cost considerably, and this is a project with a tight budget. But it is being done, unlike many over the border in England.

And besides, you need half of the Taff Vale services to cross over to the Cardiff Bay branch somewhere so even with four tracks across the bridge it wouldn't eliminate conflicting services.

I would imagine fleet of foot trams will be much more nimble at clearing the junction, especially travelling north from a standing start once they've got the signal to go from Queen St station, than the existing rolling stock.

 

[Envoy]

ITV Wales are running a story today about the closure of the Aberdare branch for upgrading:> https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021...rain-line-as-part-of-south-wales-metro-scheme

A major rail line has been closed for over two weeks as Transport for Wales prepares for the introduction of brand new electric-tram trains.

The work is part of the Welsh Government's South Wales Metro plan to improve public transport and better connect communities in the valleys.

 

[anthony263]

Temporary lights on the bridge went on the blink yesterday causing traffic problems

People blaming tfw even though it was caused by a pedestrian knocking over one of the lights.

Had a couple of bookings from landaf station to Gabalfa and the Heath Hospital these customers having booked the bus while they were on the train.

Even yesterday there were quite a few members of staff working in the new depot.

 

[Brissle Girl]

What bridge? I’m not sure much of this makes any sense to me. What service are you operating?