South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Gareth Marston]

The latest road proposal is a £100 million link road from junction 34 of M4 to Cardiff Airport, which don't forget the Welsh Govt still owns, and is still dead in comparison to nearby Bristol airport. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/100m-m4-cardiff-airport-link-13316762

There's also pressure in Dinas Powys in the Vale of Glamorgan for a by-pass there, rather than focussing on improving the rail service through Cardiff - Dinas Powys - Barry with say, 4 - 6 car EMUs instead of the current 2 car pacers and 150s, that would encourage people out of their cars.

No long term thinking at all, just the usual from politicians with what can be easily achieved in one election cycle to be used as a vote winner next time around.

WG put up a consultants report on the effect of its road construction projects on local economy's in about 2007. When people started pointing out that it said they couldn't find any impact on sub regional economy's they took it off the website never to reappear!

Further new roads in a mass car ownership society do not stimulate economic development no more than they "solve" the problem of traffic congestion. Yet our politicians are wedded to the notion that they do. Whilst on one hand they apparently don't want to upset motorists by doing anything seen as "anti motorist" they are happy to condemn motorists to ever slower journeys on ever increasingly congested roads. The shiny new road and the hiz viz vest on the tv reports makes it look like the Minister is doing something when in reality they just make the overall problem worse.

 

[HowardGWR]

It strikes me that the issues surrounding rapid transit (using the American meaning) in and around Cardiff seem similar to those in Bristol (my area). Development is diffuse and somewhat historically haphazard, resulting in car dependence. As far as the mentioned airport link is concerned, what, in addition to the M4 bypass south of Newport? Madness, as it will never compete on any scale with Lulsgate. If Bristol's airport had been at Filton, next to Parkway, it would have been an even stronger no-contest. I am disappointed in Prof Cole, as his substitute proposal for the Newport M4 bypass motorway scheme seemed eminently sensible to me, but even that was going to cost 'north' of £400m, but he seems way astray with his ideas for Cardiff from what I have read here.

Some of you state that trams would not work because the streets are jammed with cars and the irony of that view is hopefully, on further consideration, not lost. Anybody support Prof Cole's views?

 

[Gareth Marston]

It strikes me that the issues surrounding rapid transit (using the American meaning) in and around Cardiff seem similar to those in Bristol (my area). Development is diffuse and somewhat historically haphazard, resulting in car dependence. As far as the mentioned airport link is concerned, what, in addition to the M4 bypass south of Newport? Madness, as it will never compete on any scale with Lulsgate. If Bristol's airport had been at Filton, next to Parkway, it would have been an even stronger no-contest. I am disappointed in Prof Cole, as his substitute proposal for the Newport M4 bypass motorway scheme seemed eminently sensible to me, but even that was going to cost 'north' of £400m, but he seems way astray with his ideas for Cardiff from what I have read here.

Some of you state that trams would not work because the streets are jammed with cars and the irony of that view is hopefully, on further consideration, not lost. Anybody support Prof Cole's views?

Never mightily impressed with Cole even back in my RPC days 15 years ago. He gets listened to because of the party card he carries. However I will have no truck with him having witnessed him be a prima donna to rail staff because he had left his mobile phone in a hotel. He thought he was that important he could barge past a queue at a booking office and prioritise his non rail related problem.

 

[Chester1]

To help you its worth remembering that the Head of the Valleys towns like Merthyr and Aberdare are the same distance from downtown Cardiff as are places like Huddersfield and Wigan from downtown Manchester. Anyone proposing metrolink services from them or the likes of Warrington/Crewe/Buxton?

There too far out for light rail. Also there isn't anywhere worth mentioning as a destination in central Cardiff that's not a sub 10 minute walk from Cathays, Queen St, Central or the Bay. The existing heavy rail stations are actually well placed. Street running would be a (very) expensive gimmick and not produce any benefits as the existing service already has them. Just what is the point of conversion?

I'm not against light rail around Cardiff (and Swansea) on new alignments or disused ones as there are many areas with poor public transport and poor access to the rail network but messing with something that isn't broke (apart from carriage lengths) is plain stupid.

Trams to Wigan and Bolton have both been considered and ruled out for obvious reasons but its common to hear comments arguing that the Boroughs are short changed because they don't have Metro Lines to Manchester. Despite the predicted journey time being much longer than by train and other infrastructure works and a large rebate of their contributions to the GM transport infrastructure fund!

I am not suggesting going out as far as the Valleys but Cardiff Bay, Radyr, Coryton, Penarth and even Barry would be a viable distance. Metrolink was primarily built to link Piccadilly to Victoria more than Bury to Altrincham. East Didsbury was strongly considered as the southern terminus but Altrincham was chosen because it had a proven passenger service. Like I have said before, I don't think that light rail is necessarily the best solution but that there is a tendency for rail enthusiasts to oppose light rail on grounds of practicality or cost when its just they don't like trams! Converting existing train lines to form a core for a tram network combined with street running lines to replace bus services is a low risk choice. The 2013 "A Cardiff Capital Region Metro: Impact study" suggestion of converting the Bay line and linking to Cardiff Central sounds like a reasonable core although not sustainable on its own.

I care much more about North Wales and it looks like it will be largely ignored in the next franchise.

 

[HowardGWR]

Trams to Wigan and Bolton have both been considered and ruled out for obvious reasons but its common to hear comments arguing that the Boroughs are short changed because they don't have Metro Lines to Manchester. Despite the predicted journey time being much longer than by train and other infrastructure works and a large rebate of their contributions to the GM transport infrastructure fund!

snip

My emboldening. Perhaps Prof Cole (disregarding the reported inflated view of himself) does have one good point in all this. If you can get in a reasonably comfortable seat in Caerphilly and travel all the way, practically to within a few metres of the office (the ones that aren't convenient for Queen St or Central), then there's no waiting around for a bus to enable that. One can then concentrate on that all-important online Daily Mail celebrity scandal and forget about changing to a bus.

I presume this is the thinking in the Greater Manchester area.

 

[Gareth Marston]

My emboldening. Perhaps Prof Cole (disregarding the reported inflated view of himself) does have one good point in all this. If you can get in a reasonably comfortable seat in Caerphilly and travel all the way, practically to within a few metres of the office (the ones that aren't convenient for Queen St or Central), then there's no waiting around for a bus to enable that. One can then concentrate on that all-important online Daily Mail celebrity scandal and forget about changing to a bus.

I presume this is the thinking in the Greater Manchester area.

Yet another reason not to **** about with "core valley lines" and trams.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/commercial-property/biggest-ever-office-deal-wales-13445410

Moving from 10 minutes off a stop on the Coryton branch with onsite parking to a stones throw of central with no parking. You really don't want your tram coming onto the streets at Cathays when even a pacer will take you where you want to go directly and quickly.

 

[Chester1]

My emboldening. Perhaps Prof Cole (disregarding the reported inflated view of himself) does have one good point in all this. If you can get in a reasonably comfortable seat in Caerphilly and travel all the way, practically to within a few metres of the office (the ones that aren't convenient for Queen St or Central), then there's no waiting around for a bus to enable that. One can then concentrate on that all-important online Daily Mail celebrity scandal and forget about changing to a bus.

I presume this is the thinking in the Greater Manchester area.

Its not. Its simply a case of people wanting their town to have what they see in other local towns without thinking about it. I remember a year or so ago the relevant council executive member for Bolton getting heavy criticism for pointing out trams to Bolton would be too slow and a waste of money. Rochdale has a metro line because its railway station is too far from the town centre and because there is sufficient Rochdale-Oldham traffic to support 5 tph of two cars. The train service from Rochdale is three times faster and is used for end to end journeys. The Bury line is long but works because it replaced a EMU service using a life expired overhead DC system and because services run to both Victoria and Piccadilly. The city centre street stops are useful but Victoria, Salford Central, Deansgate, Oxford Road and Piccadilly surround the city centre. The Ordsall Chord will have a capacity of only 4tph which demonstrates the difficulty of linking the stations together to allow people through journeys to reach the nearest station to their destination. Its this and not location of stations that favours the trams in Manchester.

 

[gareth950]

My emboldening. Perhaps Prof Cole (disregarding the reported inflated view of himself) does have one good point in all this. If you can get in a reasonably comfortable seat in Caerphilly and travel all the way, practically to within a few metres of the office (the ones that aren't convenient for Queen St or Central), then there's no waiting around for a bus to enable that. One can then concentrate on that all-important online Daily Mail celebrity scandal and forget about changing to a bus.

I presume this is the thinking in the Greater Manchester area.

You're missing the point here Howard - all of the offices in Cardiff are within walking distance of Cathays, Queen St, Cardiff Bay or Cardiff Central. That's why the Valleys and Cardiff local services are so busy at peak times and have serious overcrowding issues in peak AM and PM. There's no buses to change on to as there's no need. THe car won't get you any closer as there's nowhere to park. Prof Cole's proposed route for trams from Cathays to Central serves no purpose. Two of Cardiff's main streets are already pedestrianised and Westgate Street is closed to all traffic, inc. buses on event days at the stadium - where will the trams go on rugby international days? It's a struggle to even walk down Westgate Street on stadium event days for the crowds, which is why the train is such a popular way to get into town on event days - you are transported quickly into the centre of the city high above the roads.

Converting existing train lines to form a core for a tram network combined with street running lines to replace bus services is a low risk choice. The 2013 "A Cardiff Capital Region Metro: Impact study" suggestion of converting the Bay line and linking to Cardiff Central sounds like a reasonable core although not sustainable on its own.

A 'core' for what though? Should Cardiff have trams linking the Bay and the city centre just to say we've got a tram line? The Cardiff Bay bus links the Bay and Central station in 5 minutes - you are dropped off literally outside the rear entrance of Central. http://www.cardiffbus.com/english/service.shtml?serviceid=1111 How can trams improve on that? Don't take any notice of the many incarnations there have been of the 'metro' map with it's crayola style multi-coloured lines that make no sense at all.

You really need to visit Cardiff to understand the points myself and others are making. It's difficult to understand how compact Cardiff city centre really is, and what a good job the existing Cathays - Queen St - Central heavy rail link does of getting people quickly in and out of the city, and how well these stations serve the areas they are in, without seeing it for yourself. Cardiff and Manchester are not comparable cities.

For some general background to Cardiff's poor transport infrastructure, I'd recommend watching this BBC Wales documentary that was shown a few weeks ago: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08w9473/week-in-week-out-cardiffs-growing-pains

 

[daodao]

You're missing the point here Howard - all of the offices in Cardiff are within walking distance of Cathays, Queen St, Cardiff Bay or Cardiff Central. That's why the Valleys and Cardiff local services are so busy at peak times and have serious overcrowding issues in peak AM and PM. There's no buses to change on to as there's no need. THe car won't get you any closer as there's nowhere to park. Prof Cole's proposed route for trams from Cathays to Central serves no purpose. Two of Cardiff's main streets are already pedestrianised and Westgate Street is closed to all traffic, inc. buses on event days at the stadium - where will the trams go on rugby international days? It's a struggle to even walk down Westgate Street on stadium event days for the crowds, which is why the train is such a popular way to get into town on event days - you are transported quickly into the centre of the city high above the roads.

A 'core' for what though? Should Cardiff have trams linking the Bay and the city centre just to say we've got a tram line? The Cardiff Bay bus links the Bay and Central station in 5 minutes - you are dropped off literally outside the rear entrance of Central. http://www.cardiffbus.com/english/service.shtml?serviceid=1111 How can trams improve on that? Don't take any notice of the many incarnations there have been of the 'metro' map with it's crayola style multi-coloured lines that make no sense at all.

You really need to visit Cardiff to understand the points myself and others are making. It's difficult to understand how compact Cardiff city centre really is, and what a good job the existing Cathays - Queen St - Central heavy rail link does of getting people quickly in and out of the city, and how well these stations serve the areas they are in, without seeing it for yourself. Cardiff and Manchester are not comparable cities.

For some general background to Cardiff's poor transport infrastructure, I'd recommend watching this BBC Wales documentary that was shown a few weeks ago: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08w9473/week-in-week-out-cardiffs-growing-pains

As a Mancunian who lived for 21 years in Cardiff, I concur. I have long experience of using the suburban line from Whitchurch (I could view the railway from my flat), particularly when I worked at CRI, and currently live close to Altrincham (served by Metrolink).

Crucial points are that Cardiff developed as a major urban centre because of and after the development of railways, and its centre is also relatively small, in part reflecting that it is only a small city - its size is constrained by the hills to the north (beyond the M4) and the Bristol Channel to the south.

By contrast, Manchester, London, Bristol and other major English cities were already major urban centres before the coming of the railways, so many of their stations are on the fringe of these city centres and don't serve them quite so well.

 

[Llanigraham]

Above ^^^^^^
At long last, people who KNOW Cardiff, and understand the my home City.
Well said.

 

[Chester1]

Ok fair enough but if your right it must mean your government has a completely idiotic approach to transport! I will still bat for light rail though. Just waiting for the next time someone says that Altrincham - Deansgate should be converted back to heavy rail...

 

[Gareth Marston]

Ok fair enough but if your right it must mean your government has a completely idiotic approach to transport! I will still bat for light rail though. Just waiting for the next time someone says that Altrincham - Deansgate should be converted back to heavy rail...

Welcome to the world of the Welsh Government where things have to be for "top show" or "done differently" all too often common sense goes out the window.

 

[HowardGWR]

Thanks for confirming what I thought (but assumed Prof Cole knew better) namely that all the work places in Cardiff are centrally situated. In that case, I don't understand why the approach streets are clogged; it can only be that employers are providing free parking and that the Council is not discouraging shopper /visitor parking and better solutions.

If you look at Bath, there are some useful park and ride facilities that are there, in the absence of sufficient approach railways (the closed MR and S and D lines would now be useful) . In the case of Cardiff you have many approach railways, a compact centre, so i simply don't understand why there should be any debate about it.

It seems to me that you need a frequent, all-hours, electrified heavy rail metro system, on the lines of Newcastle upon Tyne / Sunderland area. Perhaps there is a gap for a tram service to the north eastern suburbs, like Pontprennau, as those areas don't have any lines, it seems. I am only going by the map; perhaps you all know a better trajectory or two for a tram, where there are gaps.

 

[Chester1]

Thanks for confirming what I thought (but assumed Prof Cole knew better) namely that all the work places in Cardiff are centrally situated. In that case, I don't understand why the approach streets are clogged; it can only be that employers are providing free parking and that the Council is not discouraging shopper /visitor parking and better solutions.

If you look at Bath, there are some useful park and ride facilities that are there, in the absence of sufficient approach railways (the closed MR and S and D lines would now be useful) . In the case of Cardiff you have many approach railways, a compact centre, so i simply don't understand why there should be any debate about it.

It seems to me that you need a frequent, all-hours, electrified heavy rail metro system, on the lines of Newcastle upon Tyne / Sunderland area. Perhaps there is a gap for a tram service to the north eastern suburbs, like Pontprennau, as those areas don't have any lines, it seems. I am only going by the map; perhaps you all know a better trajectory or two for a tram, where there are gaps.

People are very attached to their cars therefore it is very risky for politicians to try to significantly reduce car usage. Practically it is straightforward because people won't drive into city centres if they can't park when they get there. Land is more valuable for residential use than car parking and private car park owners would welcome the opportunity to develop land. Government owned car parks are in theory easy to build on if there is political will. In 2002 the old county and district councils tried to convert the then recently closed freight line through Chester into a guided bus way with park and rides. There was a large backlash, the old line is now a cycle track and the traffic is worse than ever. Manchesters car parks are being progressively nudged away from the city centre by development. Its quite common for a temporary car park to open for a year or two after a building is demolished but before redevelopment starts. Do the majority people in South Wales want a metro system or do they want the money spent on new roads?

 

[gareth950]

Do the majority people in South Wales want a metro system or do they want the money spent on new roads?

It's not a case of whether people want new roads or not. There's simply no room left for new roads in and around Cardiff. New roads just shift the congestion somewhere else, as Gareth Marston has explained well.

When David TC Davies (Tory MP for Monmouth) opened the UK Parliamentary select committee into the Wales & Borders franchise by asking Prof Cole "instead of investing in the Cardiff & Valleys rail network, why don't we build new roads instead?", Prof Cole proceeded to tell him that if that was how the govt was going to deal with the increase in commuters into Cardiff just from the north of the city alone, the whole of the Cardiff North constituency would need to be tarmaced over to accomodate the traffic, they soon shut up.

The newest road to recently open in Cardiff is the £57 million eastern bay link road. It's under 1 km long and is the biggest waste of £57 million I've ever come across. It's just a diversion from a previous route that wasn't particularly congested, and cuts barely 5 minutes off a journey. But ministers needed a road construction project to stand on in the run up to last year's Assembly election.

Cardiff's roads in the city centre are mainly jammed with buses as 2 years since the old bus station closed in front of Central stn, Cardiff still doesn't have a bus station, and there's now doubts whether it will get a new one at all.
Whilst the railway serves the valleys to the north and the Vale of Glamorgan to the south west very well, to the east there are no rail connections at all and to the west you've only got the low frequency city line. So rather than spend 1.5 hours on the bus from St Mellons into town, people drive.

The BBC program I linked to is well worth a watch, it explains Cardiff's transport problems easily enough for an outsider to understand. If Cardiff doesn't develop a coherent public transport policy, and continues to build housing developments on greenfield land where the main form of PT is the bus, getting into town from the east and west will become impossible. This is where Cardiff needs trams, not on the valleys.

 

[Chester1]

I don't need persuading of the futility of road building but I think the majority of people do and often prefer money to be spent on roads rather than railways.

 

[CardiffKid]

The newest road to recently open in Cardiff is the £57 million eastern bay link road. It's under 1 km long and is the biggest waste of £57 million I've ever come across. It's just a diversion from a previous route that wasn't particularly congested, and cuts barely 5 minutes off a journey.

Vitally needed road, which should have been built 20 years ago. Hoping we don't need to wait too long for the next phase of it.

to the east there are no rail connections at all and to the west you've only got the low frequency city line. So rather than spend 1.5 hours on the bus from St Mellons into town, people drive.

Couldn't agree more. It's regrettable that 4.5 years after the Cardiff South & Penarth by-election when the First Minister visited the area and announced the he would like to see a station in the east of Cardiff it's the private sector who are about to deliver it. Apparently construction work is planned to start next April and it should be open in 2020.

Goodness only knows when the proposed Newport Road/Rover Way/Pengam Green station will open (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/could-12-new-railway-stations-12954992) that's been on the Metro 'map' since day one.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Vitally needed road, which should have been built 20 years ago. Hoping we don't need to wait too long for the next phase of it..

Aahh that's Ok then! As long as we use the secret code word "vital" it trumps all other concerns like cost £, opportunity cost, environmental damage, pollution - suck up those No2 fumes!, induced traffic causing greater congestion elsewhere slowing the economy down. Increased police and NHS costs etc etc.

 

[CardiffKid]

Aahh that's Ok then! As long as we use the secret code word "vital" it trumps all other concerns like cost £, opportunity cost, environmental damage, pollution - suck up those No2 fumes!, induced traffic causing greater congestion elsewhere slowing the economy down. Increased police and NHS costs etc etc.

Let me rephrase. In my opinion it was a vitally needed road.

The road was planned in the early 1990s as an eastern entrance to Cardiff Bay - surely you see the problem that a road was built from the west but not from the east? When/if the rest of it gets built the whole A4232 should in my opinion be trunked as an alternative to the A48 (which could be detrunked) that cuts through the centre of Cardiff.

I lived and worked in Newtown from 2006 to 2008 - I'm glad you're finally getting your by-pass. That's a road building project that I and many others happily attach the adjective 'vital' to too.

 

[Envoy]

The new 1 mile section of the A4232 in south Cardiff was indeed vitally needed - as is the rest of this road to link with the Rumney flyover. It will enable traffic from Penarth and the Bay area to have access to the M4 to/from the east without going through Cardiff city centre and built up areas such as Newport Road. Mind you, we can expect the Llanedeyn Interchange to become well and truly jammed up - which is why we need the railways to carry those people who are doing viable journeys for this mode of transport.

If the A4232 Eastern Bay Link is ever constructed, it would enable National Express etc. to have a fast route in and out of Central Cardiff from both the M4 E & W so would benefit public transport. Should a bus/coach station be built on the south side of Cardiff Central rail station, then this southern approach would be even more advantageous as bit would remove M4 bound buses from congested city centre streets completely yet still provide short walk for access to the main retailing area and stadium.

As well as the Cardiff immediate area, priority needs to be given to more outlying areas in order to reduce traffic in and around the Welsh capital. Let us take the lower Marches Line as an example:- Caerleon station should be re-opened (it has been demolished) for starters. Further up this line, a direct link from the A4043 to a large (free) P&R car park should be made at Pontypool/New Inn station. This is the nearest railhead to Usk but I bet that if anyone in that community needed to commute into central Cardiff, they would go by car. Further up the line, we have Abergavenny - a place where the limited parking by the station is normally full. Some people dump their cars in lay-bys on the A465 to the east of the station. They then have to scramble down an unmade path to access the station from the east. Again, a P&R should be made between the station and the A465. A commuter train service should be established between Abergavenny and Cardiff - with a bay platform created at Abergavenny. This would enable the long distance trains to have a faster run from Newport to Abergavenny as well as freeing up space on these trains in the more heavily populated section of The Marches Line.

A large P&R also needs to be created in north Swansea - possibly by M4 J45 with trains using the Swansea District Line. This would surely induce a lot of people from this area to drive to the car park and then catch trains to Cardiff and other places. Faster train services are also needed to Carmarthen as the present services are very slow with too many stops.

The parking situation at Pontyclun is a shambles due to a lack of space and people parking in neighbouring streets. This, despite vacant railway land being available . The station is not well signposted from neighbouring roads. Ideally, half hourly electric services should serve this station - possibly going to Ebbw Vale or maybe Abergavenny. Unfortunately, with Grayling announcing that the Cardiff to Swansea line will not be electrified, it looks like the citizens of south Wales will have to contend with the fumes from clamped out diesel trains - that is if any are available!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Let me rephrase. In my opinion it was a vitally needed road.

The road was planned in the early 1990s as an eastern entrance to Cardiff Bay - surely you see the problem that a road was built from the west but not from the east? When/if the rest of it gets built the whole A4232 should in my opinion be trunked as an alternative to the A48 (which could be detrunked) that cuts through the centre of Cardiff.

I lived and worked in Newtown from 2006 to 2008 - I'm glad you're finally getting your by-pass. That's a road building project that I and many others happily attach the adjective 'vital' to too.

Just because something appeared on a road building list in the early 90's (the infamous Roads to Prosperity fantasy) doesn't mean its right for the 3rd decade of the 21st Century. We have to leave the perceived solutions of the 1970's and 1980's behind.

The Bypass around Newtown is of course a huge £100 million opportunity cost waste which in a Welsh context would have been better spent getting the South Wales Metro up and running.

The same people who were at the forefront of moaning about Newtown's supposedly national crisis level traffic issues are now the ones moaning about the queues caused by the speed restrictions / traffic lights associated with the bypasses construction. The induced traffic on the A483/A458 because of it will of course slow traffic down wiping out any supposed time savings for through traffic that the bypass promises. Its Snake and Ladders every time with road construction.

 

[Astradyne]

Aahh that's Ok then! As long as we use the secret code word "vital" it trumps all other concerns like cost £, opportunity cost, environmental damage, pollution - suck up those No2 fumes!, induced traffic causing greater congestion elsewhere slowing the economy down. Increased police and NHS costs etc etc.

If the journey times are reduced by 5 minutes as stated above, that is 5 minutes less no2 fumes to suck up for every vehicle ... sounds like a reduction to me.

 

[squizzler]

Just because something appeared on a road building list in the early 90's (the infamous Roads to Prosperity fantasy) doesn't mean its right for the 3rd decade of the 21st Century. We have to leave the perceived solutions of the 1970's and 1980's behind.

The Bypass around Newtown is of course a huge £100 million opportunity cost waste which in a Welsh context would have been better spent getting the South Wales Metro up and running.

The same people who were at the forefront of moaning about Newtown's supposedly national crisis level traffic issues are now the ones moaning about the queues caused by the speed restrictions / traffic lights associated with the bypasses construction. The induced traffic on the A483/A458 because of it will of course slow traffic down wiping out any supposed time savings for through traffic that the bypass promises. Its Snake and Ladders every time with road construction.

I was amazed by the scale of what they are doing. What I thought was just a bypass (like a road running along the ground) to relieve motor traffic in Newtown seems in practice to entail a massive series of scars and viaducts going miles right up the side of the Severn Valley in which Newtown sits.

To an observer like myself, the scale of works to facilitate a route around what, I hope nobody minds me saying is a somewhat modest sized town, suggests the Welsh government planners are still bitter they did not own Scalextric sets as children!

 

[Gareth Marston]

I was amazed by the scale of what they are doing. What I thought was just a bypass (like a road running along the ground) to relieve motor traffic in Newtown seems in practice to entail a massive series of scars and viaducts going miles right up the side of the Severn Valley in which Newtown sits.

To an observer like myself, the scale of works to facilitate a route around what, I hope nobody minds me saying is a somewhat modest sized town, suggests the Welsh government planners are still bitter they did not own Scalextric sets as children!

Some massive Homer Simpson's moments - Newtown was located where it is for defensive purposes as it is the narrowest part of the Severn Valley. So therefore was a prime candidate for expansion as a new town in a linear fashion along the valley floor to the North East and south West of the centre?

The result is you have a 2.5 miles of industrial estate and town alongside the single carriageway road. If it had stayed as a 6000 pop market town no doubt we wouldn't have the same type/scale of problem.

The only way round is up on the hillsides hence the work you see.

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

A large P&R also needs to be created in north Swansea - possibly by M4 J45 with trains using the Swansea District Line. This would surely induce a lot of people from this area to drive to the car park and then catch trains to Cardiff and other places. Faster train services are also needed to Carmarthen as the present services are very slow with too many stops.

The parking situation at Pontyclun is a shambles due to a lack of space and people parking in neighbouring streets. This, despite vacant railway land being available . The station is not well signposted from neighbouring roads. Ideally, half hourly electric services should serve this station - possibly going to Ebbw Vale or maybe Abergavenny. Unfortunately, with Grayling announcing that the Cardiff to Swansea line will not be electrified, it looks like the citizens of south Wales will have to contend with the fumes from clamped out diesel trains - that is if any are available!

The obvious solution here would be a series of P+R stations associated with nearby M4 junctions. The proposed station at Miskin is the obvious one - a massive car park next to it already for the nearby former Bosch factory, and less issues with capacity on the SWML as it would be on the loops

But I've always thought it should go further - the way I could see it working out:

J32 - Coryton (already open) or extend to a new P+R station at Tongwynlais

J33 - a new station next to the junction on the reopened Fairwater-Llantrisant line (call it Capel Llantillern or even just Cardiff West Parkway)

J34 - a new station on Miskin Loops

J35 - Pencoed (already open)

J36 - Sarn (already open)

J37 - Pyle (already open)

J38 - a new station at Margam

J40-41 - Port Talbot (already open)

J42 - potentially a station for Parc Amazon if you're going to run trains into east Swansea for the new developments along the freight line

J43 - a new station at Llandarcy

J44 - Llansamlet (already open)

J45 - a new station at Cwmrhydyceirw

You could even continue further along if you wanted and add more stations to the Swansea District. Ambitious, obviously, but the lines are nearly all there. Add in the proposed tram line to Cardiff Gate and the potential new stations in Tremorfa and Coedkernew on the outskirts of Newport, and you're quids in

 

[Envoy]

I always thought that in the event that a tram system came to Cardiff, that it would extend from Cardiff Bay (Bute Road) station southward. So, how come Cardiff Council have now given planning permission for a modern development to be tacked onto the east side of the old station building?

Here is what the Cardiff Victorian Society said in their objection:>

"The Victorian Society said: “We object to the application, which would cause a high degree of harm to the building and its setting, and because the quality of the application falls well short of what is required given the station’s II-listing and the potential impact of the proposals.

“The Bute Road Station is one of the oldest and most significant railway structures in Wales. It is one the society has long been concerned about and only last year was included on our list of the 10 most endangered buildings in England and Wales.

“We object to the proposed extension on a number of grounds. Firstly, it is too tall. We object also to its architectural treatment, which is aesthetically jarring, disappointingly banal and fails to convey any sense of responsiveness or sensitivity to the listed building and its setting. " [/QUOTE
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/plans-convert-listed-former-cardiff-13493500

 

[CardiffKid]

See the tread here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138359

In a nutshell the Welsh Government haven't come up with any plans yet and a private developer has suggested something for a site which the councils planning committee have agreed to - I doubt anyone mentioned the possibility of the rail link to them.

I suppose it could be argued that a proposal is to shift the railway line eastwards onto Lloyd George Avenue then extend it further south?

This is a problem because there is utterly no coordination between Cardiff Council, Welsh Government, Network Rail and the wider public sector.

 

[Envoy]

See the tread here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138359

In a nutshell the Welsh Government haven't come up with any plans yet and a private developer has suggested something for a site which the councils planning committee have agreed to - I doubt anyone mentioned the possibility of the rail link to them.

I suppose it could be argued that a proposal is to shift the railway line eastwards onto Lloyd George Avenue then extend it further south?

This is a problem because there is utterly no coordination between Cardiff Council, Welsh Government, Network Rail and the wider public sector.

Yes Paul, absolutely incredible the lack of co-ordination between these organisations!

 

[HowardGWR]

See the tread here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138359

In a nutshell the Welsh Government haven't come up with any plans yet and a private developer has suggested something for a site which the councils planning committee have agreed to - I doubt anyone mentioned the possibility of the rail link to them.

I suppose it could be argued that a proposal is to shift the railway line eastwards onto Lloyd George Avenue then extend it further south?

This is a problem because there is utterly no coordination between Cardiff Council, Welsh Government, Network Rail and the wider public sector.

I suggest that if one were to quietly look at what method councillors, assembly members, etc, use to attend meetings, the answer to the issue of lack of interest in public transport would readily emerge.

Cancei their car allowances and give them rail and bus tickets and Wales' transport would be transformed within a few years.

 

[gareth950]

Cardiff Council's current planners (who are not politically aligned to the make up of the council) are 'yes men' to any private multi million or billion pound developments in Cardiff.

If the 24 storey ABP proposed 'Dolffin Quay' development in the Bay goes ahead, the Bay as it is now will be completely, irrerversibly ruined and traffic congestion in the area will be hellish.