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South Wales 'Metro' updates

gareth950

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The bay platform at Pontypridd may see some use in turning around late running services in the event of disruption, particularly given the 12tph frequency.
Maybe, but Carwyn Jones was quite explicit yesterday at FMQs that the new operator will not be allowed to curtail services early, or run fast through stations to make up time, or cancel services altogether due to late running.
That does pose Qs though of how in times of major disruption, the timetable is recovered.
 
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MarkyT

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...Will through services from the mainline still be possible? There have been proposals of through services to Pontypridd in various forms over the last 20 years, e.g to Bristol

Possible, but probably not with the rolling stock decisions made: would you want to run a tram-train through the Severn Tunnel?

You might run a trimode FLIRT instead, assuming conventional signalling is retained on the City Line
 

YorkshireBear

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Maybe, but Carwyn Jones was quite explicit yesterday at FMQs that the new operator will not be allowed to curtail services early, or run fast through stations to make up time, or cancel services altogether due to late running.
That does pose Qs though of how in times of major disruption, the timetable is recovered.

Yes it does. Sounds a bit silly ruling out all options... You basically would. Never recover all day.
 

berneyarms

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Maybe, but Carwyn Jones was quite explicit yesterday at FMQs that the new operator will not be allowed to curtail services early, or run fast through stations to make up time, or cancel services altogether due to late running.
That does pose Qs though of how in times of major disruption, the timetable is recovered.
Operationally that’s frankly nuts and (particularly on Metro routes) impossible. Operators have to have some flexibility to recover time in the event of things going wrong. Of course those measures need to be a last resort but ruling them out altogether is asking for trouble.

But then politicians won’t fully understand the implications of that I suspect. Devil is in the detail.
 

krus_aragon

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Operationally that’s frankly nuts and (particularly on Metro routes) impossible. Operators have to have some flexibility to recover time in the event of things going wrong. Of course those measures need to be a last resort but ruling them out altogether is asking for trouble.

But then politicians won’t fully understand the implications of that I suspect. Devil is in the detail.

If it's the case that they can't curtail or run fast without financial penalty, that'd probably hit the mark for all concerned. There'll be a point where the penalty for breaking the timetable will be better than the penalty for consistent late running.
 

WelshBluebird

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Of course, it comes to a point where if you are running enough trains, to the public at least, the actual timetable doesn't really matter. I'd think the Pontypridd - Queen street services (with a train every 5 minutes if the timetable is done evenly) falls into that category. The problem will be for those who want to go to the branches or Central and operationally in terms of drivers, infrastructure (I am assuming there will be still some single track sections in places) etc.
 

Envoy

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It looks like there is no intention to re-build the railway from the City Line in Fairwater out via the new Plasdwr & J33 developments to Cregiau. I can understand the Welsh Government not including this in the announcement this week as obviously their first priority must be to electrify the present network - which I am sure most of us are pleased about - along with not digging up the streets of Cardiff for trams. However, I say that it looks like there is no intention to build in the future a line out to Cregiau based on the plans for land N of M4 J33. The area of protected land is marked on plans by the developers - Persimmon & Charles Church - but where the railway should go through this area, they mark it as public open space/ village green. Look at these images which I have taken off the Cardiff Planning Portal under application 17/03092/MJR
PLAN FOR LAND N OF J33.20.jpg TEXT FOR LAND N OF J33.04.jpg ARTISITC IMPRESSION FOR LAND N OF J33.53.jpg TEXT FOR LAND N OF J33.54.jpg

During the Cardiff LDP Hearings before the Welsh Government appointed inspectors, much criticism was levelled at developing this land at J33 - not least the fact that that this junction was going to become even more bunged up by having a business park & bus based P&R on the northern side. What is really needed at this junction is a flyover to connect the A4232 with the M4 but the WG planning department seem determined to turn this into another Culverhouse Cross - only worse because even more traffic uses this junction. This has now resulted in plans being drawn up for another road crossing the Vale of Glamorgan from J34 (Miskin) to Sycamore Cross (junction on A48 near Bonvilston) in order to serve the Airport and west Barry = a road that will do nothing to link central Cardiff with the Airport/Barry.

So, the WG in cahoots with Cardiff Council plan huge new developments across the countryside NW of Cardiff yet provide no link to the M4 for traffic from these areas & thus impose the extra traffic onto roads through Radyr, Llandaff, Fairwater, Groes Faen, St.Fagnas whilst at the same time, it would appear, making no future provision for a proper railway to these new developments (+Cregiau). I say ‘proper’ railway because if they assume assume that on street trams will run through these areas and then go onto the City Line at Fairwater, then this is likely to screw up the scheduling of all the trains through the Central Station (local lines) as the minute you go on street, you cannot guarantee the precise scheduling that we have today.

I note that extensive areas of derelict brownfield land remain at Barry docks today - right near the railway (metro). A pity that this land was not used for the kind of development that they plan for the countryside by J33. Presumably, had it all been one bigger county such as South Glamorgan (that was), then this could have been the case? So much for regional planning!
 
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Gareth Marston

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Of course, it comes to a point where if you are running enough trains, to the public at least, the actual timetable doesn't really matter. I'd think the Pontypridd - Queen street services (with a train every 5 minutes if the timetable is done evenly) falls into that category. The problem will be for those who want to go to the branches or Central and operationally in terms of drivers, infrastructure (I am assuming there will be still some single track sections in places) etc.

At first glance the capacity increases on the Keolis slideshow on the Valleys look impressive.
upload_2018-6-7_13-30-35.png

However figures given are seating and standing.
Each Stadler LRV vehicle has 257 max 129 seats. So we can see that from Treherbert whilst there will be 6 peak AM trains between 0730 & 0900 to Queen St there will be 10 LRV vehicles forming them. Aberdare 6 services 8 LRV's & Merthyr 6 services 9 LRV's. So not all services will be doubled up.

Each Stadler Flirt has up to 425 max with 191 standing (4 car), 319 max 125 seats for 3 car? (approx)
Coryton services should be 3 peak trains and 957 /3 is 319 so the 3 cars are on the Coryton branch.
Penarth should be 6 peak also and we get 1914/6 equaling 319.
The difference between Rhymeny & Caerphilly is 957 so we can see 3 x 3 car Flirts are starting at Caerphilly in the peak.

However I cant get the figures for Rhymney/Caerphilly/Barry to divide by 425 or 319 or any combination of the two exactly. Clearly the 4 car units are predominantly going to be do these runs. Doesn't look like any of the Flirts will be doubled up from Barry direction but some will be from Rhymney/Caerphilly.
 

Dai Corner

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Impressive algebra Gareth!

Do we know how many seats arrive in Cardiff during the peak at the moment?
 

MarkyT

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Now knowing roughly what the service proposal is, I've devised a notional six platform layout for Queen Street station to handle the typical patterns and here present an animation to illustrate which services might use use each platform.
The design incorporates very high throughput capacity, using dedicated platforms for each service group and maximising parallel movement potential through the flat junction and Newport Road bridge. Convenient same direction cross-platform interchange is also catered for between Barry/Penarth-Rhymney trains (Standler trimode FLIRT design, shown Red in the animation) and Bay-Pontipridd tram-trains (Also Stadler vehicles, shown blue), serving Taff, Rhonda and Cynon Destinations. Alternate Tram-trains between those valleys and Queen Street via the City Line and Cardiff Central station are shown in blue as well, terminating in a pair of dedicated platforms on the west side.
 

Dai Corner

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Difficult to assess as it depends on how the trains are formed, i.e.

Single 14x
2 x 14x
150/2
2 x 150/2
150/2 + 14x
153

If even you don't know Philipe I presume that information isn't in the public domain so could only be obtained by observation. Perhaps I'll have to pack my flask, notebook and cheese sandwiches and spend an hour or two on the end of a platform!?
 

PHILIPE

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If even you don't know Philipe I presume that information isn't in the public domain so could only be obtained by observation. Perhaps I'll have to pack my flask, notebook and cheese sandwiches and spend an hour or two on the end of a platform!?


Even then, diagrams are broken all the time, short formed, different traction on the day. Don't pick a cold day as the wind blows right through Cardiff Central especially if it's an easterly.
 

gareth950

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Alternate Tram-trains between those valleys and Queen Street via the City Line and Cardiff Central station are shown in blue as well, terminating in a pair of dedicated platforms on the west side.

It doesn't look like they plan to terminate the trains coming down from Pontypridd via the City line at Central or Queen St, instead they'll be sent straight back up the Valleys.
From the AMs presentation:
"2tph from Pontypridd ‘divert’ via City Line but don’t terminate at Central i.e. Aberdare – City Line – Central – Merthyr"
 

daikilo

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Even then, diagrams are broken all the time, short formed, different traction on the day. Don't pick a cold day as the wind blows right through Cardiff Central especially if it's an easterly.

Philipe, it looks to me you have, in theory, been dealt the best of all hands with the tri-modes and what appears to be a mix of Penarths and Barrys/VoG. How they plan to get you there and whether it will be achieved remains to be seen.
 

Gareth Marston

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Remember all those maps with prioritised Schemes on them that were on the TFW website? They have now gone from TFW's website!

The final contract was not what they put in the public domain 6 months ago.
 

WatcherZero

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They never did put a final specified contract, they simply invited bidders to propose a package of the options they thought they could provide and how much it would cost. Rather than being tightly specified it was more of a continental breakfast.
 

Dai Corner

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They never did put a final specified contract, they simply invited bidders to propose a package of the options they thought they could provide and how much it would cost. Rather than being tightly specified it was more of a continental breakfast.

A continental breakfast where they had to settle for croissants and fruit juice as they couldn't afford the caviar and Buck's Fizz?
 

daikilo

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Remember all those maps with prioritised Schemes on them that were on the TFW website? They have now gone from TFW's website!

The final contract was not what they put in the public domain 6 months ago.
.
I guess this is what we expected/feared. Never trust the words of politicians.

That said, if what is now promissed is delivered, I can't see reason to complain much.
 

Gareth Marston

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.
I guess this is what we expected/feared. Never trust the words of politicians.

That said, if what is now promissed is delivered, I can't see reason to complain much.

Its now delivering true - the first big test will be can they deliver PRM compliance and Pacer replacement?

and by "they" I mean WG/TfW. Keolis are largely hostages to fortune given the Franchise start date/timescale.
 
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I really hope that the plans for the Beddau extension aren't being binned or kicked into the long grass. The date lines for the bay extension and the new stations in Cardiff are very long as well, not sure why a 300m extension to The Flourish would take 6 years and Gabalfa station 10 years to plan and build. And what about Cardiff Parkway?

While the rolling stock plans are over and above expectations the meagre deveopments planned are disappointing.
 

Dai Corner

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I really hope that the plans for the Beddau extension aren't being binned or kicked into the long grass. The date lines for the bay extension and the new stations in Cardiff are very long as well, not sure why a 300m extension to The Flourish would take 6 years and Gabalfa station 10 years to plan and build. And what about Cardiff Parkway?

While the rolling stock plans are over and above expectations the meagre deveopments planned are disappointing.

A lot will probably depend on how much operational subsidy is required. If ridership exceeds forecasts, subsidies are less than expected and the WG decides not to spend the money on anything else the new stations may appear earlier. If the reverse is true, the long lead times may turn out to be indefinite lead times (ie the developments don't happen at all).

This is the practical effect of capping KeolisAmey's profits and relying on the excess to fund improvements. No excess = no improvements.
 

Gareth Marston

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A lot will probably depend on how much operational subsidy is required. If ridership exceeds forecasts, subsidies are less than expected and the WG decides not to spend the money on anything else the new stations may appear earlier. If the reverse is true, the long lead times may turn out to be indefinite lead times (ie the developments don't happen at all).

This is the practical effect of capping KeolisAmey's profits and relying on the excess to fund improvements. No excess = no improvements.

In theory you have all of ATW's "excess profit" to start investing from Day One.
 

Phil from Mon

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Some thoughts to the Institute of Welsh Affairs from Mark Barry on the future direction of the metro, including frequencies, extensions around the Bay, and cross-Valley links using old alignments

http://www.iwa.wales/click/2018/06/making-metro-really-work-valleys-cardiff/

So now we know a little more; the next phase of the South Wales Metro really will be a radically improved and innovative network for the core valley lines from Merthyr, Rhymney, Treherbert, Aberdare & Coryton to Cardiff City Centre, Penarth and Barry.

We will see four trains per hour (tph) from all points on the network periphery and many more on the core routes into Cardiff from Pontypridd, Barry and Caerphilly (I think the 2tph specified for the Coryton line will be quickly revised up to 4tph and the City line will probably require a little further infrastructure work to get to 4tph). It will exploit new types of Heavy Rail (HR) rolling stock serving Vale of Glamorgan to Rhymney and on-street capability via a tram-train Light Rail Vehicle (LRV) on routes north of Cardiff via Pontypridd and to the Bay, delivering faster, more frequent services and more capacity; flexible extendibility is built-in via the tram-train capability and an initial tranche of new stations deliver greater accessibility. The wider commitment to invest to upgrade every station across Wales is also impressive.

The new metro stations will be at Gabalfa, Crwys Rd, Loudon Square, the Flourish opposite the Millennium Centre in Cardiff and at Nantgarw (near Coleg Y Cymoedd and the planned DWP office). This is a significant increase in public transport accessibility. I also expect to see more details in due course of how Ebbw Vale will be re-connected to Newport.

In due course I expect a few more stations to be added to this list; for example, Pontypridd bus station (inconceivable for the largest bus station in the mid valleys and next to the rail line not to be integrated) and at Herbert St (to take pressure off Cardiff Central) and Wedal Rd (see below), as originally set out in the Metro Impact Study commissioned by Welsh Government in 2013. I’d like to see the additional station works expanded and accelerated so they are all delivered by 2024.

So now let’s get behind Welsh Government, Transport for Wales (who have done a remarkable job in running this procurement) and KeolisAmey to build, deliver and operate this next phase of the South Wales Metro – it is vital that this essential foundation is completed successfully.

There will be some finessing of the scheme and some adjustment during detailed design and implementation to tease out the maximum benefits, but if all goes well it will be operating in the early to mid-2020s; pretty much along the lines of the vision I originally developed, with the support of the Cardiff Business Partnership & published by the Institute of Welsh Affairs, in 2011, followed up in further studies in 2012/13 and developed later with Welsh Government. I am pleased with how this is all turning out. Going further back, it really delivers Prof Marquand’s vision for an electrified commuter rail network across the valleys he published in, “South Wales Needs a Plan”, in 1936! Nor am I forgetting the work of groups like SEWTA and other local authority proposals going back to the work to reopen lines in Mid and South Glamorgan in the 1980s and later the Ebbw Valley and Vale of Glamorgan in the 2000s.


Options for the Future: A Public Transport grid for Cardiff

In Cardiff, Metro presents a unique opportunity to develop a new integrated public transport grid right across the city (Figure 1). Some further metro rail measures and new cross city express bus services east to west which interchange with the metro lines to Pontypridd at Gabalfa and the Rhymey line at Wedal Rd station (which also needs to be added to the scheme) will provide a real alternative to car use and the resulting congestion and air quality impacts. In doing so, new public transport network planning capability, commercial arrangements and perhaps some bus franchising maybe needed.



MB1a.png


Figure 1 Using Metro to develop a high quality public transport grid across Cardiff



An “on-street” extension from “The Flourish“, across the docks to tidal siding freight line via Splott/Tremorfa onto the main line at Rover way opens up huge development potential in the south of the city and provides a means to route some future tram-train services from say Ebbw Vale to the city centre via Cardiff Bay, freeing up capacity at Cardiff Central. Similarly, the completion of the link between the bay line and Cardiff Central, probably to connect to the City Line, also presents a valuable extension opportunity linked with urban realm improvements all the way from Central to Cardiff Bay along the current bay line & Lloyd George Avenue. There is also the prospect of completing the Cardiff Circle Line at Radyr.


Options for the Future: Re-thinking the region

Now that we have the foundation of a South Wales Metro on the starting blocks, we can begin to seriously think about how we can “rebuild” the region. The extendibility capability via tram-train is not just about on-street operations down into Cardiff Bay & city centre or extending the metro through the new Plas Dwyr housing in north west Cardiff onto Creigiau and Talbot Green. It’s also about re-imagining the whole of the region and using this new transport capability to enable a more equitable spread of economic activity across south east Wales. This also means developing a statutory and much more strategic capacity to undertake land use planning in south east Wales on a regional basis.

Given the application of tram-trains on much of the core valleys through Pontypridd – which enables more flexibility in developing new routes – then those involved in local development planning, economic development, community regeneration, housing, etc should be tasked to explore ways better connectivity can help sustainably grow the regional economy (see my Metro economic impact article for the Bevan Foundation in 2016). From “bricks and mortar” agglomeration through to local and community focused interventions (see my recent speech for Wales in London week for a flavour). In doing so they should be thinking out to 2030 and beyond and developing ideas for future phases of the metro once the core is complete in the early to mid-2020s. Much of the work set out in the 2013 Metro Impact Study now has a new relevance. The increasing importance of Pontypridd as a regional centre also demands that we consider how we can improve its accessibility even more than is provided by this next phase of Metro.


Options for the Future: A Cross-Valley Tram-train service

So, if I may, here’s a crazy idea to kick around! A x-valley tram-train service using a combination of existing, new and reinstated lines. From Pontypool to Treherbert via Pontypridd, Nelson, Hengoed, Blackwood and Crumlin.



MB2.png


Figure 2 The old x-valley line from Crumlin to Treharris as shown on a map from the 1940s

This route could augment north-south tram-train operations on the core valleys via Pontypridd and reconnect the mid-valleys east-west for the first time since the Beeching cuts of the 1960s, before which passenger services operated all the way from Pontypool to Aberdare and beyond (Figure 2).

With a total length of ~50KM from Treherbert to Pontypool it would utilise ~30Km of existing rail infrastructure and require ~20Km of new rail, some of which can use old alignments (Figure 3 ) . There are clearly some challenges, for example the re-introduction of rail on the Hengoed viaduct and crossing the Ebbw Valley at Crumlin. But we have done all this before….so it’s not so much an engineering challenge but an institutional and psychological challenge!

X-valley movement will become much easier, faster and more convenient. High quality interchanges with frequent North – South services at place like Pontypool, Crumlin, Hengoed, Abercynon and Pontypridd north effectively delivers a high-quality, rail based, public transport grid covering the vast majority of the most densely populated parts of south east Wales.

Places like Blackwood, Pontypool and especially Pontypridd will have their accessibility dramatically enhanced, supporting more economic activity and helping both larger scale and local community focussed regeneration. Such a scheme, or even the prospect of it, may enhance the potential of other extensions across the region: to Abertillery, north into Merthyr and to Hirwaun.



MB3.png




Figure 3 Potential x-valley Tram-train service from Pontypool to Treherbert

Yes, expensive – but now at least possible with tram-train capability able to operate on both the existing network, “on-street” or via alignments not possible with pure Heavy Rail (which some of this route may need).

Key Features and Benefits:

  • New high-quality 50Km x-valley rapid transit service for ~250,000 people (Figure 4 )
  • A total end to end journey time of perhaps one hour ten mins; Pontypridd to Blackwood in perhaps twenty-five minutes
  • Brings Blackwood & Pontllanfraith (pop. ~50k) onto the rail network, the largest population centre in the valleys without a direct rail service
  • Provides a real and sustainable alternative to the car
  • Increases the “net effective” population density of the central valleys area – so more people can get to more places, more easily & more quickly
  • Will support further economic development at key centres such as Pontypridd, Ystrad Mynach/Tredomen Business Park & Blackwood with increased employment catchments;
  • It could also help grow the tourist and visitor economy across the valleysespecially if linked to the development of the “valleys regional park”
  • Help bring forward new “Transit Oriented Development” housing and mixed-use schemes; especially at/between Treharris and Ystrad Mynach
  • More options to better integrate with local bus services
  • Helps create a more balanced regional economy.

MP4.png


Figure 4 Overlay of route proposal with population distribution and density

Image Credit: Duncan Smith, at the Centre for Advanced Spatial Analysis, University College London



This is an expensive proposal (probably comparable with the cost of the Heads of the Valleys road) and may or may not have a good business case. And if there is a case, it may have to be delivered in phases or modified to ensure best value for money. But in my view, it is worth exploring.

If we are serious about really changing the future of the valleys for the better, then this is the kind of transport scheme that we need to consider. It’s taken 8 years to get Metro this far…I’d like to see this x-valley scheme operating by 2028!
 

Dai Corner

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gareth950

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So the Prof now thinks we should get tram-trains running up to Ebbw Vale and along the mainline, avoiding Cardiff Central altogether and going down to the Bay. Tram-trains mixing with freight and class 800s. Right.

A new station at Herbert St would make very little difference to numbers at Central. It's still a fair walk from there to Central, Central is where people want to get to.

And a new on-street tram line from Central to the Bay that then connects to the City line - how exactly? Levitate the tram up from street level to rail level at Central? He probably means street-running from the back of Central under the railway, up St Mary's street, along Castle St, along the A4161 and somehow getting up onto the alignment at Ninian Park, which is a junction that comes to a standstill for 2 hours every morning and 4 hours every evening (3 - 7pm)

I wonder how disappointed the Prof is with Keilos Amey's plans, as it's not the light rail mania and digging up of Cardiff's streets that he wanted.
 
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Robertj21a

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So the Prof now thinks we should get tram-trains running up to Ebbw Vale and along the mainline, avoiding Cardiff Central altogether and going down to the Bay. Tram-trains mixing with freight and class 800s. Right.

What's the issue with tram-trains mixing with freight etc - isn't that what trains do ?. I seem to recall travelling on a Tyne & Wear metro train that had a class 66 freight loco not far behind.
 

Gareth Marston

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So the Prof now thinks we should get tram-trains running up to Ebbw Vale and along the mainline, avoiding Cardiff Central altogether and going down to the Bay. Tram-trains mixing with freight and class 800s. Right.

A new station at Herbert St would make very little difference to numbers at Central. It's still a fair walk from there to Central, Central is where people want to get to.

And a new on-street tram line from Central to the Bay that then connects to the City line - how exactly? Levitate the tram up from street level to rail level at Central? He probably means street-running from the back of Central under the railway, up St Mary's street, along Castle St, along the A4161 and somehow getting up onto the alignment at Ninian Park, which is a junction that comes to a standstill for 2 hours every morning and 4 hours every evening (3 - 7pm)

I wonder how disappointed the Prof is with Keilos Amey's plans, as it's not the light rail mania and digging up of Cardiff's streets that he wanted.

Having been part of the losing team he will have much insight into why MTR didn't win. One suspects they could have focussed too much on plans for the Metro and not enough on the rest of Wales and the Borders. Being fair to everyone and the size of the budget to do what he wants was not going to happen. The best thing he can actually do is to make sure the duplicate motorway around Newport isn't built.

I wil note again the LRT at all costs posters have still not been heard from on this thread since the announcement!
 

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