South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Brissle Girl]

What has politics got to do with the fact that the lines between Cardiff & the coast are remaining heavy rail? I don’t recall anybody suggesting that DMU’s would be the favoured solution over electrification.

Agree, and those lines will be getting new rolling stock and some infrastructure enhancements (although less is needed, as there is little single track already), so it’s wrong to say the coastal lines are not being upgraded.
Indeed, they will get the “proper rolling stock” that so many here have complained is not being introduced on the routes through Pontypridd, so it just goes to show you can’t please everyone.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

So, Railtrack cut back the Ebbw Vale line to single track in the late 1990’s and the line was reopened to passenger traffic on 6 February 2008. Surely, a load of money would have been saved had it been made clear that the line would reopen to passenger traffic and that the 2 tracks should be retained and upgraded where needed?

Obviously that's true but re-opening to passengers really wasn't on the cards before the 1995 reorganisation of local government and the establishment of the Assembly in 1999.

The old Gwent County Council, in contrast to neighbouring Mid and South Glamorgan, were pretty anti-rail and did nothing to advance the project. It was only after the advent of unitary local government and devolution that re-opening became a real possibility. Much of the credit should go to the late Peter Law AM/MP who campaigned relentlesly in favour of re-opening.

 

[Envoy]

Obviously that's true but re-opening to passengers really wasn't on the cards before the 1995 reorganisation of local government and the establishment of the Assembly in 1999.

The old Gwent County Council, in contrast to neighbouring Mid and South Glamorgan, were pretty anti-rail and did nothing to advance the project. It was only after the advent of unitary local government and devolution that re-opening became a real possibility. Much of the credit should go to the late Peter Law AM/MP who campaigned relentlesly in favour of re-opening.

Well, the City Line with new stations at Waungron, Fairwater & Danescourt was opened in 1987 due to the foresight of the former South Glamorgan County Council. Indeed, it is in some ways regrettable that the local government reorganisation of 1995 resulted in the splitting of South Glamorgan into Cardiff County & Vale of Glamorgan County. Note for example that Cogan station (VOG County) is only a 10 minute or so walk from the White Water Centre, Ice Rink & Swimming Pool in the western Bay (Cardiff County) yet to this day, no pedestrian link has been made to link that station with the Pont-Y-Werin footbridge. (This could easily be done by creating a footpath from the Cardiff bound platform - through the arch under the main road and then up onto the path to Post-Y-Werin. A huge gain for relatively little cost in the grand scheme of things. As things stand, anyone wanting to get from Cogan station to the Pont-Y-Werin bridge has to cross the busy main road by the mini roundabout with no pedestrian crossing). A new station on the Penarth line by Cogan Tesco would also have been of great benefit - especially if it had a car park where the current Tesco parking is today. This situation could still be rectified if they knocked down the offices on the marina side of Tesco and made that the supermarket car park. All bad planning by the Cardiff Bay Development Corporation who also placed The Oystercatcher facing the roundabout when it could have had a view of the water with outdoor seating.

The fact that we had the splitting of Cardiff from the VOG also led in recent years to both having to draw up separate Local Development Plans. This has resulted in new development going up on former countryside between Cardiff & Cregiau with no guarantee that a new Metro line will ever be built. Meanwhile, large tracts of brownfield land in the former Barry docklands remain undeveloped - despite having a ready made operational railway alongside.

 

[Cardiff123]

So, Railtrack cut back the Ebbw Vale line to single track in the late 1990’s and the line was reopened to passenger traffic on 6 February 2008. Surely, a load of money would have been saved had it been made clear that the line would reopen to passenger traffic and that the 2 tracks should be retained and upgraded where needed?

I doubt very much that it was envisaged in the late 1990s (when devolution hadn't even been established in Wales), that just over 10 years later the line would re-open to passengers.

What has politics got to do with the fact that the lines between Cardiff & the coast are remaining heavy rail? I don’t recall anybody suggesting that DMU’s would be the favoured solution over electrification.

Because the lines south of Cardiff are staying in the hands of Network Rail and so under the control of the DfT. I'm sure if they could have, TfW would've liked to take ownership and control of the lines to Barry, Penarth and the VoG as well as the CVL.

 

[MarkyT]

I had some earlier involvement with the Ebbw Vale line as a young senior technical officer in the Cardiff section of the Reading signalling drawing office in the mid 1980s, possibly 86 or 87. My section leader assigned me a job to put in some additional passenger capable wrong road moves from Park Junction, across Gaer Junction and through the tunnels, to gain access to platform 1 at Newport station, at the request of the Area Manager apparently for the purpose of new passenger services which couldn't otherwise be accomodated. No new track was required and all lines through both tunnels were already bi-di, but the up routes from the branch to the down main and down relief were missing. I completed the design, had it properly checked and approved, and the drawings went into a desk drawer, never to re-emerge! Despite going nowhere, it was an excellent training exercise, as the job was my first major interlocking and panel alteration design, in the most complex area on our patch. I remember it well as when I first really 'got' the concept of how sectional route locking worked.

 

[Envoy]

Because the lines south of Cardiff are staying in the hands of Network Rail and so under the control of the DfT. I'm sure if they could have, TfW would've liked to take ownership and control of the lines to Barry, Penarth and the VoG as well as the CVL.

Surely, the reason that Network Rail/DfT wished to keep control of the VOG Coast Lines is because they are the diversion route for when the mainline between Cardiff & Bridgend is shut? I note that this includes the link between Ninian Park station and the mainline at Leckwith Junction. Nothing to do with politics and all to do with the operation of a main Inter City/freight route having a back-up line.

 

[Cardiff123]

Surely, the reason that Network Rail/DfT wished to keep control of the VOG Coast Lines is because they are the diversion route for when the mainline between Cardiff & Bridgend is shut? I note that this includes the link between Ninian Park station and the mainline at Leckwith Junction. Nothing to do with politics and all to do with the operation of a main Inter City/freight route having a back-up line.

It's to do with politics though because politicians in UK govt, who control those lines, refuse to pay for the cost of electrification of those lines. Note that in 2012 the plan for the Valley lines was to electrify the entire SE Wales local network, including Ebbw Vale, Maesteg, Barry Island, Penarth, and the VoG line. Then a row erupted over who should shoulder the most cost between UK Govt and Welsh Govt, and by 2014/15, it was clear that there was only enough money available to electrify the 'Core Valley lines' on a constrained budget.

If UK govt had really bought into the South Wales Metro scheme, they would offer to at least electrify the lines to Barry, Penarth and the VoG so that tri-mode electric/diesel trains are not needed for the Rhymney line, and the trains could operate on electric throughout. As it is we've got the crazy situation where platforms 6, 7 and 8 at Central won't be electrified because NR don't have the money to do it, whilst the rest of Cardiff Central is electrified.

So the entire electrification of the Cardiff local lines and the Valley lines has all been about politics since the start 8 years ago. Because the Labour Welsh Govt in Cardiff and the Tory London govt continually row about funding and devolved responsibilities, we have the compromise scheme we've got now, rather than the full electrification of the entire local network that was proposed 8 years ago.

 

[Tom Quinne]

When the National garden festival was held in Ebbw Vale way back in 1990? there was a plan to reintroduce passenger services, only took another near 20 years to get them!

The single portal road over rail bridge built when the line was realigned to allow the Risca bypass to built doesn’t allow double track from Park North right through to Crosskeys unfortunately, another lack of for thought.

With the Machen branch closed since Feb, will it ever reopen?

 

[Dai Corner]

When the National garden festival was held in Ebbw Vale way back in 1990? there was a plan to reintroduce passenger services, only took another near 20 years to get them!

The single portal road over rail bridge built when the line was realigned to allow the Risca bypass to built doesn’t allow double track from Park North right through to Crosskeys unfortunately, another lack of for thought.

With the Machen branch closed since Feb, will it ever reopen?

The A467 itself doesn't go over the railway. Is this the bridge under Chartist Drive?

 

[Envoy]

It's to do with politics though because politicians in UK govt, who control those lines, refuse to pay for the cost of electrification of those lines. Note that in 2012 the plan for the Valley lines was to electrify the entire SE Wales local network, including Ebbw Vale, Maesteg, Barry Island, Penarth, and the VoG line. Then a row erupted over who should shoulder the most cost between UK Govt and Welsh Govt, and by 2014/15, it was clear that there was only enough money available to electrify the 'Core Valley lines' on a constrained budget.

If UK govt had really bought into the South Wales Metro scheme, they would offer to at least electrify the lines to Barry, Penarth and the VoG so that tri-mode electric/diesel trains are not needed for the Rhymney line, and the trains could operate on electric throughout. As it is we've got the crazy situation where platforms 6, 7 and 8 at Central won't be electrified because NR don't have the money to do it, whilst the rest of Cardiff Central is electrified.

So the entire electrification of the Cardiff local lines and the Valley lines has all been about politics since the start 8 years ago. Because the Labour Welsh Govt in Cardiff and the Tory London govt continually row about funding and devolved responsibilities, we have the compromise scheme we've got now, rather than the full electrification of the entire local network that was proposed 8 years ago.

I thought that the Metro project was getting money from the EU?

I note that even the mainline from Chippenham through Bath to Bristol Temple Meads as well as the link up to Bristol Parkway has had electrification deferred. Neither has the mainline between Didcot and Oxford been wired along with the Thames branches to Henley, Windsor & Marlow. So, we surely can’t just assume that the government were cutting back in Wales - as with the main line between Cardiff & Swansea. Surely, all this results from the fact that Network Rail could not deliver the Great Western project on time and budget? (Many people say that it is over engineered as witnessed by the ugly catenary).

Hopefully, the Welsh Government/TfW can show how a scheme can be delivered on time and budget. I note how Bristol is still waiting for the Portishead rail line to re-open whist all the time, Network Rail keep increasing the price - with nothing being done.

 

[willgreen]

I'd suggest that Wales is actually doing pretty well with the most recent round of electrification, although it has obviously been neglected for decades.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I'd suggest that Wales is actually doing pretty well with the most recent round of electrification, although it has obviously been neglected for decades.

I suppose it depends in whether you're a glass half full or glass half empty sort of guy!

The actual mileage electrified in Wales is quite small but obviouly passengers from Wales benefit from the electrification of the GWML in England. Having said that, service enhancements from Cardiff have been minimal compared to Bristol TM despite the two cities metro areas having roughly similar populations and economies.

I've not incuded the Metro for two obvious resons. It hasn't have happened yet and when it does it's no thanks to Network Rail and the UK Government - unless you think we should be tugging our forelockto them for agreeing to let us spend our own money on our own railways.

 

[Tom Quinne]

The A467 itself doesn't go over the railway. Is this the bridge under Chartist Drive?

No idea of the road name I’m afraid.

 

[oglord]

The A467 itself doesn't go over the railway. Is this the bridge under Chartist Drive?

Yes. Plus the bridge over Ebenezer Drive is also single-track. Oddly there appears to be enough room for another span on the eastern abutment, but not the western one.

 

[Envoy]

I have just come across a story (from March) relating to the fact that land at the former gasworks just west of Ikea in Grangetown, Cardiff is now up for development. (House building is currently taking place on the bed of the former railway that ran behind Clive Street).

I wonder if some sort of direct access can be made from these developments to Grangetown station?

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I have just come across a story (from March) relating to the fact that land at the former gasworks just west of Ikea in Grangetown, Cardiff is now up for development. (House building is currently taking place on the bed of the former railway that ran behind Clive Street).

I wonder if some sort of direct access can be made from these developments to Grangetown station?

It would certainly make sense if it's possible. I think I'm right in saying the homes being built are all social / affordable housing so the level of car-ownership is likely to be quite low.

 

[Tom Quinne]

I don’t think there is link between lack of private vehicle ownership and social - part ownership - affordable Housing.

If anything there are equal levels, if not slightly lower than the average.

Through experience the “ownership” is fluid as is the legality of that ownership and operation.

 

[Envoy]

It would certainly make sense if it's possible. I think I'm right in saying the homes being built are all social / affordable housing so the level of car-ownership is likely to be quite low.

Pleased to see that the homes are ‘affordable’. I wonder where they build the homes that nobody can afford? By ‘social’, I presume that the people will be friendly to each other?

 

[anthony263]

Bridgend council announced that they are building a new 6 stand bus station at Porthcawl (salt lake car park) along with extra car parking and bus interchange at Pyle railway station.

Porthcawl doesn't have much of a bus network these days with only 3 major bus services but an irregular cross town service. The Swansea service was withdrawn a few years ago so I fail to understand why porthcawl ,needs such a large bus station

 

[Envoy]

Bridgend council announced that they are building a new 6 stand bus station at Porthcawl (salt lake car park) along with extra car parking and bus interchange at Pyle railway station.

Porthcawl doesn't have much of a bus network these days with only 3 major bus services but an irregular cross town service. The Swansea service was withdrawn a few years ago so I fail to understand why porthcawl ,needs such a large bus station

That is good news - although it is a pity that the Salt Lake car park was not turned into a marina - as originally planned. (I understand that an old dock is underneath). Clearly, it would be to the benefit of the town to have a good bus service to Pyle station and that this station would also act as a railhead for other nearby settlements. (It takes a very long time to get by bus from Porthcawl to Cardiff as the bus goes into Bridgend, Cowbridge and reaches the city centre via the slow route through Ely & Canton with zillions of traffic lights. No wonder that anybody from Porthcawl who wishes to travel to Cardiff would use a car via the M4 and A4232 expressway).

 

[cjp4]

The Transport for Wales website has an updated Metro section. There are some new images of the rolling stock, an interactive walk through of one of the Flirts and notification of preparation works from August through to December of the lines north of Radyr, rail replacements from 2000 through to 0500 Sunday through Thursday.

https://tfwrail.wales/metro

 

[Envoy]

The seat head area on the Flirts looks rather curved forward. Would this be comfortable? Also note that head area is black which means you can’t see if it has accumulated dirt. I want to know if the head area is dirty. (I really wonder if it would be better to have paper antimacassars fitted and changed every day)?

The link to the full map does not work - error message 404. The visible map is rather small and made all the worse because not only is English written second but it is also very faint.

 

[oglord]

Looks like it has got lost if it's all the way at Prestonpans!

The link to the full map does not work - error message 404. The visible map is rather small and made all the worse because not only is English written second but is is also very faint.

Some web monkey has used smart quotes in the link text. The URL is https://trc.cymru/sites/default/files/inline-files/South Wales 2023 potential.pdf
Agree with the choice of font and colours too.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Looks like it has got lost if it's all the way at Prestonpans!

Some web monkey has used smart quotes in the link text. The URL is https://trc.cymru/sites/default/files/inline-files/South Wales 2023 potential.pdf
Agree with the choice of font and colours too.

Interesting that the proposed new station at Gabalfa is missing from that map.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Pleased to see that the homes are ‘affordable’. I wonder where they build the homes that nobody can afford? By ‘social’, I presume that the people will be friendly to each other?

Most of your posts on here are pretty intelligent so I'm surprised you don't understand commonly used definitions. You may be pulling my leg, but in case you really don't know 'affordable housing' is housing that is available for sale to low-income families at 25% or more below the market rate. Social housing is rental housing owned either by a local council or a housing association.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Interesting that the proposed new station at Gabalfa is missing from that map.

Gabalfa station isn't planned to open until 2028, seems like a very long lead time, no idea why.

 

[Envoy]

Most of your posts on here are pretty intelligent so I'm surprised you don't understand commonly used definitions. You may be pulling my leg, but in case you really don't know 'affordable housing' is housing that is available for sale to low-income families at 25% or more below the market rate. Social housing is rental housing owned either by a local council or a housing association.

Many thanks for your response. Yes, I am fully aware of what the terms “affordable” and “social" mean in a housing context. I just find these terms a bit odd. All houses built must surely be affordable to someone or other otherwise they would not get built. The term “social” is also rather odd in the way in which it refers to homes built by a local council or housing association.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Many thanks for your response. Yes, I am fully aware of what the terms “affordable” and “social" mean in a housing context. I just find these terms a bit odd. All houses built must surely be affordable to someone or other otherwise they would not get built. The term “social” is also rather odd in the way in which it refers to homes built by a local council or housing association.

They are odd terms, you're right, but they're the ones that are generally used.

I share your frustration at the weird way that language is sometimes used. A particular bugebear of mine was the ban on smoking in so called "public places" which applied almost entirely to privately owned premises but not to streets, parks, beaches etc which is what most people would have taken "public places" to mean.

 

[Envoy]

I note that there is no mention on the map of a station at Ely Mill on the City Line. It is also regrettable that nothing seems to be planned for a station at Caerleon.

Would it not have been wise to have a Flirt capable of using the overhead wires between Severn Tunnel Junction & Cardiff Central for services to Cheltenham rather than just DMU’s? In the event that electrification is extended west of Cardiff to Swansea & the branch to Maesteg, then we would have had local trains that could make use of the wires. As things stand, we would be stuck with diesel power for say a stopping service between Swansea and Cheltenham or even Bristol/Bath. Such short sightedness!

 

[Energy]

I note that there is no mention on the map of a station at Ely Mill on the City Line. It is also regrettable that nothing seems to be planned for a station at Caerleon.

Would it not have been wise to have a Flirt capable of using the overhead wires between Severn Tunnel Junction & Cardiff Central for services to Cheltenham rather than just DMU’s? In the event that electrification is extended west of Cardiff to Swansea & the branch to Maesteg, then we would have had local trains that could make use of the wires. As things stand, we would be stuck with diesel power for say a stopping service between Swansea and Cheltenham or even Bristol/Bath. Such short sightedness!

I'm sure they can fairly easily stick a pantograph on them to make them bimode.