South West Trains: A confusing Brand?

[starrymarkb]

Other than painting its trains and buses in the same livery, of course.

The rail livery came first - IIRC It appeared in 1998 - First Stagecoach buses I saw in the new livery was late 2000

 

[tsr]

Does anyone agree with me that a good deal of FGW and SWT could be merged into one franchise - perhaps as well as some of ATW? If this rings a bell, I've mentioned it before.

I know it wouldn't be historically accurate.

I also agree that the naming of SWT isn't exactly perverse.

You do all know that the Scotrail sleepers serve London, don't you?

 

[BrummyBoy]

Apart from the short lived Island Line franchise, there haven't been many franchise names which accurately describe every route in their geography.

Cross Country?

 

[455driver]

Up until a few years ago SWT used to run to Plymouth and Paignton.

Also Penzance.

 

[jopsuk]

Cross Country?

I suppose so, but then TPE are also "cross country", as is the infamous Norwich-Liverpool "East Midlands" (previously Central!) service.

 

[Electrostar]

But the word Stagecoach hasn't been at the forefront of its branding since the Stagecoach SWT days. It maybe mentioned in small type on posters but certainly not part of the branding.

 

[transmanche]

"West" Anglia does not really exist unless you mean the West Country (Anglia means England)

You'd better tell that to the College of West Anglia, based in King's Lynn. Incidentally; before 1974, Cambridgeshire Constabulary was called Mid-Anglia Constabulary.

 

[ert47]

Does anyone agree with me that a good deal of FGW and SWT could be merged into one franchise - perhaps as well as some of ATW? If this rings a bell, I've mentioned it before.

I know it wouldn't be historically accurate.

I also agree that the naming of SWT isn't exactly perverse.

You do all know that the Scotrail sleepers serve London, don't you?

It could happen... I did read a paper somewhere about plans to potentially consolidate some franchises in the UK

 

[Eagle]

well, suburban trains and the 450s aren't really in anything like the Bus livery, apart from the use of orange.

Some of Stagecoach Warwickshire's buses use a variant of the red with blue livery that 455s have...

(picture from Transport Illustrated on Blogspot)

 

[TEW]

Does anyone agree with me that a good deal of FGW and SWT could be merged into one franchise - perhaps as well as some of ATW? If this rings a bell, I've mentioned it before.

It was perhaps a possibility at one point. The Wessex Trains franchise was originally due to take on SWT's diesel London-Salisbury-Exeter route, it was even shown in timetables as a future route but in the end the route stayed with SWT. I'm not 100% sure of the reasons behind the decision but I have a feeling the transfer was stopped because of the future merging of Wessex with FGW.

 

[Zoe]

It was perhaps a possibility at one point. The Wessex Trains franchise was originally due to take on SWT's diesel London-Salisbury-Exeter route, it was even shown in timetables as a future route but in the end the route stayed with SWT. I'm not 100% sure of the reasons behind the decision but I have a feeling the transfer was stopped because of the future merging of Wessex with FGW.

I believe this was at the time when the SRA were going to let a series of 20 year franchises. The only one of these that was actually let though was Chiltern. After Hatfield the network descended into chaos so there were clearly other priorities.

 

[swt_passenger]

It could happen... I did read a paper somewhere about plans to potentially consolidate some franchises in the UK

The McNulty report was the latest. It doesn't propose any changes with SWT or FGW though, presumably because he thought they were about the right size anyway.

 

[tbtc]

Cross Country?

Well, Cross Country don't reach the coast on every "radial" from Birmingham, and there are other TOCs who run services from one coast to the other (e.g. there was a trip from the seaside of Aberystwyth to the seaside of Cleethorpes a few years ago, but that had the name Central Trains, despite being far from "central")
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some of Stagecoach Warwickshire's buses use a variant of the red with blue livery that 455s have...

That is a nice livery - I like the Stagecoach effect of using the same basic theme to create different identities (so that each looks "Stagecoach", but retains a distinct identity too)

 

[shinkansen1966]

Would it be easier if we went back to the BR sector names and then added the contractor's own brand in small type underneath ?

eg

INTERCITY
operated by Virgin

NETWORK SOUTH EAST
operated by Stagecoach South West

REGIONAL RAILWAYS
operated by Stagecoach East Midlands Trains

 

[Zoe]

Would it be easier if we went back to the BR sector names and then added the contractor's own brand in small type underneath ?

Even better "British Rail operated by (TOC)" with a simple blue and grey livery. London's buses are still red and even after privatization were still operated by a company for London Transport. The bus companies were however at one time allowed to use their own liveries.

 

[tbtc]

Even better "British Rail operated by (TOC)" with a simple blue and grey livery. London's buses are still red and even after privatization were still operated by a company for London Transport. The bus companies were however at one time allowed to use their own liveries.

I think it was 80% red that they had to keep, thus allowing for something like the Arriva "cow horns" or the First "willow leaf", whilst retaining the overall look of a London bus

 

[Zoe]

I think it was 80% red that they had to keep, thus allowing for something like the Arriva "cow horns" or the First "willow leaf", whilst retaining the overall look of a London bus

Now yes but there was a time when they didn't have to.

 

[transmanche]

Even better "British Rail operated by (TOC)" with a simple blue and grey livery.

I think it's quite useful to have different brands for different types of service - e.g. InterCity, local, regional express etc.

I think it was 80% red that they had to keep, thus allowing for something like the Arriva "cow horns" or the First "willow leaf", whilst retaining the overall look of a London bus

Now yes but there was a time when they didn't have to.

I think that rule only applied to buses in zone 1 - and yes it was only introduced after a few high profile routes were won by companies using non-red liveries (e.g. 19 by Kentish Bus and 24 by Grey Green, both now part of Arriva).

Nowadays it seems that an all-red livery is required and buses carry the TfL Buses logo (a roundel with BUSES written on the central bar) - see here and here.

 

[Gareth]

Would it be easier if we went back to the BR sector names and then added the contractor's own brand in small type underneath ?

eg

INTERCITY
operated by Virgin

NETWORK SOUTH EAST
operated by Stagecoach South West

REGIONAL RAILWAYS
operated by Stagecoach East Midlands Trains

Actually, I'd prefer it if each franchise had a neutral/geographic name that stayed the same, regardless of what company operated it. This is how it is with Scotrail now, though a lot of that is because of SNP nation-building policy.

I'd also do similar with the buses in Merseyside - create regional bus divisions with their own brand, which are franchised out.