South Western Railway nationalisation time.

[stadler]

Just a quick question. What time on Sunday morning does SWR get nationalised? I am sure i recall with some of the other past nationalised TOCs that it is not 00:00 but some time later in the morning? Perhaps at 02:00 or 04:00 or something like that? But i can not seem to find any information online so not sure where this is published? If anyone can confirm that would be very helpful.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I think changes are usually in the wee small hours, about 4am, so that no services are running at the moment of changeover.
Caledonian Sleeper changed at 12 noon for the same reason

 

[ValentaFan1974]

I believe the Virgin WC->Avanti handover took place at 02:00 IIRC so possibly the same time?

 

[stadler]

Does anyone know what the final SWR train of the day is and what the first SWR train of the day is. That might help to work out the operator changeover times.

The latest train i can find this Sunday is the 01:05 London Waterloo to Southampton Central 02:56 service. There is also a later departure 01:42 London Waterloo to Twickenham 02:23 service but that arrives at its destination earlier than the previous one.

The earliest train i can find this Sunday is the 06:14 London Waterloo to Shepperton 07:30 service. That one is followed four minutes later by the 06:18 Shepperton to London Waterloo 07:38 service.

I have not checked every timetable so i might be wrong. But this is the latest and earliest that i can find.

So this would suggest the changeover would have to be at least at 03:00 to avoid a train running during changeover. But perhaps they might do 04:00 just in case that train is running late as four minutes leave very little time in case delays happen.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Does anyone know what the final SWR train of the day is and what the first SWR train of the day is. That might help to work out the operator changeover times.

The latest train i can find this Sunday is the 01:05 London Waterloo to Southampton Central 02:56 service. There is also a later departure 01:42 London Waterloo to Twickenham 02:23 service but that arrives at its destination earlier than the previous one.

The earliest train i can find this Sunday is the 06:14 London Waterloo to Shepperton 07:30 service. That one is followed four minutes later by the 06:18 Shepperton to London Waterloo 07:38 service.

I have not checked every timetable so i might be wrong. But this is the latest and earliest that i can find.

So this would suggest the changeover would have to be at least at 03:00 to avoid a train running during changeover. But perhaps they might do 04:00 just in case that train is running late as four minutes leave very little time in case delays happen.

Those will indeed be the first and last ones. Typically it’s the last departure that’s considered the last one so 2K79 the 01:42, which was also the last SWT departure.

If you really want to stand on the point there’s a replacement bus leaving at 05:50 from Clapham Junction to Surbiton!

 

[greatkingrat]

Does it matter if there is a train running at the official handover time? Presumably this would have happened when TPE got taken over as they run trains all night.

 

[I13]

The earliest train i can find this Sunday is the 06:14 London Waterloo to Shepperton 07:30 service. That one is followed four minutes later by the 06:18 Shepperton to London Waterloo 07:38 service.

There's an 0536 Woking to Surbiton.

 

[Gloster]

The contract originally expired on 28 May 2023 at 01.59. The Notice of Variation gives 25 May 2025 as the new date, but makes no reference to a different time.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

'Railnews' has it at 02.00.

SWR

After South Western Railway passes to the state at 02.00 on Sunday, it is to be followed by c2c on 20 July and Greater Anglia on 12 October. The other seven are expected to have followed by 2027.

 

[stadler]

There's an 0536 Woking to Surbiton.

Ah good spot. So it seems like that holds the title of the first nationalised SWR train. I presume it is supposed to go to London Waterloo but is cut short due to engineering work.

 

[iphone76]

MTR Elizabeth line becomes GTS Elizabeth line at 0200 on the same day, so I would imagine it will be the same too.

 

[stadler]

'Railnews' has it at 02.00.

SWR

Ah so it is 02:00 then. So in that case there will be two trains which start as a First MTR service and finish as a state owned service. Do they two trains actually transfer operator in the middle of the journey? Or are they still considered to be run by First MTR throughout even though the franchise has technically finished halfway through the journey?

 

[winks]

Who cares . It will still be called SWR.

 

[fgwrich]

MTR Elizabeth line becomes GTS Elizabeth line at 0200 on the same day, so I would imagine it will be the same too.

And just like that, MTR’s UK operations ends overnight. I do feel they’ve done well with CrossRail, but seemed to have remained the Silent Partner for SWR.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Well, since 2020 the SWR game has been obeying the DFT’s instructions and collecting your wedge so MTR have had relatively less to do, as compared to what they had to do to earn money on the Elizabeth line contract.

 

[vuzzeho]

If you really want to stand on the point there’s a replacement bus leaving at 05:50 from Clapham Junction to Surbiton!

How appropriate! The first privatised service was the 0250 SWT replacement bus.

From the archives: Rail privatisation - 22 years on

On Sunday February 4 1996, the first privatised passenger train of the modern era rolled into Waterloo. PAUL CLIFTON was on it. He looks back on the changes

www.railmagazine.com

Others claimed that the first Stagecoach train had actually been a bus. The company had officially taken over from British Rail at 0200, but the 0250 Eastleigh to Southampton Central service went by road instead, because of local engineering work.

 

[norbitonflyer]

How appropriate! The first privatised service was the 0250 SWT replacement bus.

İ seem to recall there was an earlier bus that morning from Fishguard - GWR changed on the same day.
The LTS was intended to have had the first privatised train, but PR machine had to be hastily rejigged when that franchise was cancelled 48 hours before the changeover.

 

[Thames99]

The BBC has picked up on this story and mention the 05.36 as being the first nationalised RRB. It also mentions an earlier service, the 02.27 Guildford- Waterloo which has been cancelled - another auspicious start.

South Western Railway: First nationalised train is bus service

South Western Railway becomes Great British Railways on Sunday at 01:59 BST precisely.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[omnicity4659]

The BBC has picked up on this story and mention the 05.36 as being the first nationalised RRB. It also mentions an earlier service, the 02.27 Guildford- Waterloo which has been cancelled - another auspicious start.

South Western Railway: First nationalised train is bus service

South Western Railway becomes Great British Railways on Sunday at 01:59 BST precisely.

www.bbc.co.uk

just written to the BBC to get this corrected - the 0227 is a RailAir coach service to Heathrow not a replacement bus to Waterloo.

 

[stadler]

The BBC has picked up on this story and mention the 05.36 as being the first nationalised RRB. It also mentions an earlier service, the 02.27 Guildford- Waterloo which has been cancelled - another auspicious start.

South Western Railway: First nationalised train is bus service

South Western Railway becomes Great British Railways on Sunday at 01:59 BST precisely.

www.bbc.co.uk

That article is inaccurate. Only the second half of the first service is a rail replacement bus. The first ever nationalised SWR service will be the 05:36 Woking to Surbiton 05:59 service which is a proper train. It is only the second nationalised SWR service at 06:06 Surbiton to 07:02 Clapham Junction which is a rail replacement bus.

 

[swt_passenger]

The BBC has picked up on this story and mention the 05.36 as being the first nationalised RRB. It also mentions an earlier service, the 02.27 Guildford- Waterloo which has been cancelled - another auspicious start.

South Western Railway: First nationalised train is bus service

South Western Railway becomes Great British Railways on Sunday at 01:59 BST precisely.

www.bbc.co.uk

Their so called ‘journalists‘ are delusional. They’re implying rail replacement buses won’t be necessary in future? So that’ll require the abandonment of all engineering work I suppose.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Their so called ‘journalists‘ are delusional. They’re implying rail replacement buses won’t be necessary in future? So that’ll require the abandonment of all engineering work I suppose.

If (and it's a big if) the GBR organisation is more integrated than the present TOCs it's not out of the question that more diversions rather than buses might be possible because it would be easier to get drivers "from another TOC" as route conductors etc. However to suggest there won't be any at all is indeed delusional - plenty of RRBs in BR days

 

[Sealink]

I'm wondering if the website will be refreshed to reflect any new branding...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm wondering if the website will be refreshed to reflect any new branding...

There won't be any new branding (yet). South Western Railway is generic - deliberately so.

 

[Pete_uk]

There is a picture of the unit with the branding on floating around.

 

[stadler]

There is a picture of the unit with the branding on floating around.

Yes this photo has been floating around social media in the past few days.



It looks like such a cheap bodge job with just a basic sticker stuck on the side.

 

[Pete_uk]

Huh.

Yes.

Well.

Thank you.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There won't be any new branding (yet). South Western Railway is generic - deliberately so.

Unlike c2c though, which is next, in July.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a picture of the unit with the branding on floating around.

It's a one off just to celebrate nationalisation, it isn't the final new branding.

Unlike c2c though, which is next, in July.

c2c is generic too. None of the TOCs now carry the name of the owning group. I think the last one that did was Abellio Greater Anglia, but the Abellio has now been dropped (from the parent too!)

 

[dorsetdesiro]

It's just like Nicola Sturgeon's photo op, proclaiming Scotrail's nationalisation, with just a vinyl slapped on with the livery largely unchanged.

Some may find this quite disappointing, we likely won't see anything "GBR fully blown" until around 2030-ish. As we've seen with other TOCs nationalised already, with Southeastern to this day looks exactly the same post-Govia, likewise with TPE etc.