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South Western Railway nationalisation time.

Bletchleyite

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It's just like Nicola Sturgeon's photo op, proclaiming Scotrail's nationalisation, with just a vinyl slapped on with the livery largely unchanged.

Some may find this quite disappointing, we likely won't see anything "GBR fully blown" until around 2030-ish. As we've seen with other TOCs nationalised already, with Southeastern to this day looks exactly the same post-Govia, likewise with TPE etc.

It's a bit different to the whistles all blowing to herald the start of British Rail. But we live in different times. A slow and progressive move towards a more unified system, as appears to be the case, is probably sensible. And there are benefits of local branding - after all BR had Network SouthEast.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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Some may find this quite disappointing, we likely won't see anything "GBR fully blown" until around 2030-ish. As we've seen with other TOCs nationalised already, with Southeastern to this day looks exactly the same post-Govia, likewise with TPE etc.
People keep bringing up the already nationalised TOCs but it’s so irrelevant, as these were operators of last resort in a privatised railway. Of course they’re going to look the same. Why would a privatised railway that’s had to take some services in house due to corporate failings want to publicly advertise the fact they’ve had to nationalise it?
 

Snow1964

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People keep bringing up the already nationalised TOCs but it’s so irrelevant, as these were operators of last resort in a privatised railway. Of course they’re going to look the same. Why would a privatised railway that’s had to take some services in house due to corporate failings want to publicly advertise the fact they’ve had to nationalise it?
To be fair, I don't think many members of the public (and probably some of the media too) would understand any difference in structure, operation and services provided between an operator taken over as last resort, (nationalised by back door). And one nationalised because contract ended or was terminated. Ultimately both are in DfT pending status prior to GBR.

Of course the Labour Party spin is pitching SWR nationalisation as good, although why it is good (when those that are already DfT run aren't included) is not really explained.
 

dorsetdesiro

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Isn't the current DFTO is a OLR anyway, Labour just changed the name to distance from the Tory naming of DOHL? Then wouldn't this put SWR in the same situation being nationalised like the TOCs before it? Also it would fall in the same grouping overseen by DFTO, SWR will become a sister company to LNER etc.

I see DFTO/ DfT OLR as an interim situation in between privatised TOCs and a single nationalised GBR so things obviously won't change instantly overnight.

This is just a political move by Labour to make it seem things are "really happening" which is really more gradual behind the scenes. Also they would be for nationalisation more than the Tories so would go a further mile to make a show of it.

The Tories, if had they remained in govt, the nationalisation still would have occurred though grudgingly (due to failure of franchising) and probably at much slower pace. Then SWR, once nationalised under Tories, would be left unchanged as the others were.

Labour would just "put on the colourful bows & balloons" with the stuck-on GBR vinyls on existing liveries.
 

Goldfish62

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Isn't the current DFTO is a OLR anyway, Labour just changed the name to distance from the Tory naming of DOHL? Then wouldn't this put SWR in the same situation being nationalised like the TOCs before it? Also it would fall in the same grouping overseen by DFTO, SWR will become a sister company to LNER etc.

I see DFTO/ DfT OLR as an interim situation in between privatised TOCs and a single nationalised GBR so things obviously won't change instantly overnight.

This is just a political move by Labour to make it seem things are "really happening" which is really more gradual behind the scenes. Also they would be for nationalisation more than the Tories so would go a further mile to make a show of it.

The Tories, if had they remained in govt, the nationalisation still would have occurred though grudgingly (due to failure of franchising) and probably at much slower pace. Then SWR, once nationalised under Tories, would be left unchanged as the others were.

Labour would just "put on the colourful bows & balloons" with the stuck-on GBR vinyls on existing liveries.
Operator of Last Resort no longer exists. It has been replaced by DfT Operator Ltd. Essentially the same function but it would be odd to continue to have "Last Resort" in the name.

It's only intended as a temporary vehicle before the separate companies are absorbed into vertically-integrated GBR along with Network Rail.
 

norbitonflyer

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The Tories, if had they remained in govt, the nationalisation still would have occurred though grudgingly (due to failure of franchising) and probably at much slower pace. Then SWR, once nationalised under Tories, would be left unchanged as the others were.
They would only have been nationalised by the Tories if a franchise failed (or failed to attract any bids when re-let)
 

3141

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Does it matter if there is a train running at the official handover time? Presumably this would have happened when TPE got taken over as they run trains all night.
The reason for transfers taking place at 2.00am, as happened with all the privatisations, is to minimise the possibility of having to deal with all the problems that would arise if a crash took place at or very close to the handover time.

Their so called ‘journalists‘ are delusional. They’re implying rail replacement buses won’t be necessary in future? So that’ll require the abandonment of all engineering work I suppose.
That's what I was thinking! The Daily Telegraph presents this news item as if it demonstrates some kind of failure of "nationalisation", either not realising, or probably not knowing, that the engineering works that have led to the replacement bus are the responsibility of NR and not the train operator.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Will SWR's contract change along with its ownership?
DFTO will then have 5 TOCs under its wing, all running on individual National Rail Contracts linked back to the privatised system.
The real change will come when any/all of them are required to operate under some new GBR-inspired contracts, but we don't know when that will be.
 

Goldfish62

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Will SWR's contract change along with its ownership?
DFTO will then have 5 TOCs under its wing, all running on individual National Rail Contracts linked back to the privatised system.
The real change will come when any/all of them are required to operate under some new GBR-inspired contracts, but we don't know when that will be.
The first substantive change will be hopefully later this year when quasi-vertical integration through an alliance with Network Rail takes place. South Eastern and Greater Anglia are well advanced with similar plans.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The first substantive change will be hopefully later this year when quasi-vertical integration through an alliance with Network Rail takes place. South Eastern and Greater Anglia are well advanced with similar plans.
SWR is also well-aligned with its current NR Route/Region, but some TOCs are definitely not (eg Northern., TPE and XC, also TfW).
How those are integrated will be a test of the GBR/DFTO setup.
 

Hadders

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One thing that will change on the website is reference to First MTR South Western Trains Limited and the sections 'about us' that refer to First Group and MTR.
 

Goldfish62

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SWR is also well-aligned with its current NR Route/Region, but some TOCs are definitely not (eg Northern., TPE and XC, also TfW).
How those are integrated will be a test of the GBR/DFTO setup.
They won't all necessarily be vertically integrated before they're abolished altogether under GBR. It makes sense to get some vertical integration introduced in the meantime for those TOCs where there is a good geographical match.
 

norbitonflyer

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Have I slept through Saturday?

701046 came up from Bournemouth last night and is now working 2H07, the 0614 Waterloo to Shepperton.


Misread RTT: it is shown as coming up from Bournemouth leaving at 2335 tonight (Saturday) arriving at Waterloo 0152 Sunday to take up the diagram at 0614
 
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DelW

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Yes this photo has been floating around social media in the past few days.

View attachment 180546

It looks like such a cheap bodge job with just a basic sticker stuck on the side.
Since that sticker literally includes the words "coming soon" I think it's safe to assume that it's not the permanent version of anything ...
 

winks

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So there’s talk of a temporary logo announced at Bournemouth depot on Thursday just gone. If that were true nobody’s seen the logo yet !
 

Hcommute

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So there’s talk of a temporary logo announced at Bournemouth depot on Thursday just gone. If that were true nobody’s seen the logo yet !
It’s in this post.

Yes this photo has been floating around social media in the past few days.

View attachment 180546

It looks like such a cheap bodge job with just a basic sticker stuck on the side.
Would help if I had added the quote lol
 

Deepgreen

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Their so called ‘journalists‘ are delusional. They’re implying rail replacement buses won’t be necessary in future? So that’ll require the abandonment of all engineering work I suppose.
Yes, exactly my point in a complaint to them as well! A very tabloid-ish article (as is increasingly the case with the BBC these days). Also, the so-called first nationalised rail service being a bus is hardly surprising at that time of day.

It’s in this post.


Would help if I had added the quote lol
I doubt if that is even the temporary logo, as the 'coming soon' part is only relevant for a very short time (and I would hope that even a temporary logo would be somewhat more elegant than that!).
 
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winks

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The logo will look pretty decent on a proper liveried train. The double arrow and font in white will look a lot fresher and cleaner than the British Rail red. This is a holding logo until the trains get a revamp further down the line.
 

Ian Hardy

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I was chatting to ticket office clerk at Hounslow this morning, the last part of his shift today, he has record everything that was the responsibility of First MTR, i.e. the ticket office & Ticket Vending Machine receipts. As the office closes at 14:30, any ticket bought from the TVM after that will be lost to First MTR and will receipts will go to DfT's operator instead. I don't know what happens at unstaffed stations or ones that are only staffed on Monday - Friday mornings.

I also received this email from SWR on Monday 19th May:

As you may know, on 25 May 2025, South Western Railway services will be operated by a new company – South Western Railway Limited – as part of a planned transition into public ownership.

Although the legal operator is changing, your experience won’t. You’ll continue to see the same branding, same services, and the same teams running your trains.

There will also be some new responsibilities – such as the Freedom of Information Act – but these won't affect how your data is used day to day.

What you need to know

Current operations: Until the transfer, First MTR South Western Trains Limited will continue to operate the SWR rail franchise as normal. All tickets will remain valid and you should continue to use and purchase tickets in the normal way. For any journeys you've booked that are due to take place after 25 May 2025, your tickets will be honoured and we will continue to provide you with any important updates about your bookings.

Data transfer: Responsibility for your personal data will transfer from First MTR South Western Trains Limited to South Western Railway Limited. This is a legal change only – your data will continue to be handled in the same systems, by the same teams, and used for the same purposes. The transfer ensures continuity of service with minimal impact on you. It’s based on legitimate interests (Article 6(1)(f) UK GDPR), which means both organisations have assessed that it’s necessary and fair for operations to continue smoothly.

Privacy and data use: Our reasons for collecting and using your data remain unchanged. Your personal data will be used in accordance with the law and the South Western Railway Ltd Privacy Policy, to ensure that the South Western Railway service that you are familiar with continues to operate. (Unless you choose to consent to other uses, such as to receive electronic marketing (email) from South Western Railway Ltd.)

Data custody: South Western Railway Ltd will be the controller of your personal data. The new privacy notice explains your rights under data protection laws and how and why your personal data will be processed by or on behalf of South Western Railway Ltd. You can read the South Western Railway Ltd new privacy notice here.

Retention of data: If First MTR South Western Trains Limited needs to retain any of your personal data after 25 May 2025, it will be held in accordance with our Privacy Notice.

To exercise your data rights before 25 May 2025, please contact South Western Railway at [email protected]

Thank you for your attention to this important update. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to click on the contact form to leave your query.
 

ChrisHogan

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I was chatting to ticket office clerk at Hounslow this morning, the last part of his shift today, he has record everything that was the responsibility of First MTR, i.e. the ticket office & Ticket Vending Machine receipts. As the office closes at 14:30, any ticket bought from the TVM after that will be lost to First MTR and will receipts will go to DfT's operator instead. I don't know what happens at unstaffed stations or ones that are only staffed on Monday - Friday mornings.
Receipts from ticket sales go to the Treasury anyway, not to the individual retailer.
 

thedbdiboy

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Receipts from ticket sales go to the Treasury anyway, not to the individual retailer.
Yes, but until the legislation to create GBR is laid and implemented the legal structure still necessitates that the money is accounted for through the relevant contract structure. Legally, the process being followed is no different to the one used for franchise changes.
 

NSEWonderer

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MTR no longer runs a single Train Operating Company now. GTS has taken over the Elizabeth Line officially aswell.
 

stadler

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It looks like 455 716 and 455 853 are booked to work the first nationalised service (05:36 Woking to Surbiton 05:59) this morning.
 

ChristopherJ

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It looks like 455 716 and 455 853 are booked to work the first nationalised service (05:36 Woking to Surbiton 05:59) this morning.
It's a shame BR Blue Grey 5868 aka Spanners isn't available to work the first nationalised service.

It could've been a railway equivalent of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, except with British Rail.
 

Busman

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Forgive me for asking a question that may already have been asked and answered but does that mean in years to come trains will have a generic colour and style across the UK?
 

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