Southdown Motor Services Outstations

[Paulus01]

Hi I am very interested in Southdown Motor Services. It used to fascinate me when I was younger when I went to the Seaside in Brighton. Could someone please help me please with a question that I have been trying to find out for years?

Please could someone tell me the exact locations of all the Southdown Outstations? I know of two - one at Handcross and the other at Dial Post but where were the others? I like to look them up on google maps to see where they were.
If not does anyone know where i could get hold of the information please?

Very Grateful

 

[GusB]

Hi I am very interested in Southdown Motor Services. It used to fascinate me when I was younger when I went to the Seaside in Brighton. Could someone please help me please with a question that I have been trying to find out for years?

Please could someone tell me the exact locations of all the Southdown Outstations? I know of two - one at Handcross and the other at Dial Post but where were the others? I like to look them up on google maps to see where they were.
If not does anyone know where i could get hold of the information please?

Very Grateful

Welcome to the forum! I have moved your post into its own separate thread in order to give it a bit more prominence. I'm fairly sure that there will be a few people here who may be answer your questions.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There’s an excellent book https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781898432104/Southdown-Vol-Details-British-Bus-1898432104/plp that details them all.

Might struggle to recall all but Wickham, Heathfield, Hassocks and Fareham were still standing last I knew. Warsash was furthest west and still stood about 20 years ago.

Wickham https://www.google.com/maps/@50.901...4!1soCKqlTyT2K0bTj4PPKD5pA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Heathfield

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Hassocks and Fareham were both in the station yard/approach

Some of the others were Henfield, Bolney, Storrington (dismantled and rebuilt at Amberley), Pulborough, Midhurst, Petworth, Clanfield, Chelwood Gate, Arundel and Hambledon - this is all on memory and there’s some I have forgotten.

There were also a number of sub-depots which had their own allocation or limited facilities that were more substantial but worked off a larger depot such as Emsworth, Hayling (still standing), East Grinstead, Crawley, Crowborough, Littlehampton, Seaford, Petersfield (still standing).

Hope this helps

ps Some links to outstations (credit to photographers)

OKJ507M

Former M&D3507 (OKJ507M) this Leyland National is pictured at Storrington "garage" owned by Southdown MS as their 140 on a visit there by the Sussex Roadliner Tour with the M&D and EK Bus Club on 20th April 1985

www.flickr.com

Former Southdown, Station Road, Wickham

The former Southdown MS dormy shed still survived in Wickham near Fareham in 2008

www.flickr.com

Former Southdown outstation, London Road, Pulborough

This was a survivor having been closed in 1971 and then surviving probably as part of the engineering works seen behind. The whole area has now been redeveloped for housing.

www.flickr.com

Southdown Fareham Garage with 0783, RUF 183

Leyland PD2 Tree cutter. Allocated to Eastbourne, seen at Fareham garage circa 1973.

www.flickr.com

Former Southdown, Station Approach, Hassocks

In April 2009, the dormy shed at Hassocks was surviving as a commercial garage. It has been reclad in recent years

www.flickr.com

 

[Surreyman]

Not exactly an outstation but there was a Southdown Coach station in Crawley, basically a short break stopover with cafe, can't remember when it closed - early 70s??

 

[ajs]

There were also a number of sub-depots which had their own allocation or limited facilities that were more substantial but worked off a larger depot such as Emsworth, Hayling (still standing), East Grinstead, Crawley, Crowborough, Littlehampton, Seaford, Petersfield (still standing).

The old Hayling depot is now a hardware store.

Southdown buses also used to park up at Havant Railway Station after the removal of the Hayling branch. As far as l know there were no facilities for the bus crews there.

At some time , some Southdown buses used to overnight at the Portsmouth Corporation Bus Depot at Leigh Park, on the outskirts of Havant.

There is this little booklet, published by The Spring at Havant, gives an idea as to routes in the Havant area,

http://thespring.co.uk/media/3038/b-no-61-southdown-motor-services-bus-routes-to-leigh-park.pdf

Edited to add link to booklet

 

[Surreyman]

One vehicle used to be outstationed at Aldershot & District (Later Alder Valley) depot in Alton, since demolished.

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

Rummaging around in a dusty old pile of stuff I found a booklet published by the Southdown Enthusiasts Club dating from March 1980. Whilst it doesn’t list outstations as such, the following locations are listed as depots, complete with rail-style two-letter depot codes:

BN - Edward Street, Freshfield Road, Moulsecoomb

BR - Bognor

CB - Crowborough

CH - Chichester

CS - Conway Street

EB - Eastbourne

HD - Henfield

HH - Haywards Heath

HK - Hassocks

HL - Hailsham

HS - Horsham

LS - Lewes

MH - Midhurst

PM - Winston Churchill Avenue, Emsworth, Hambledon, Hayling Island, Hilsea, Hoeford, Leigh Park, Petersfield

SF - Seaford

SG - Steyning

SN - Storrington

UD - Uckfield

WG - Worthing

WK - Whitehawk

 

[Caleb2010]

In early Southdown days there were several dormey sheds! Ashington was one. Dial Post and Cowfold were others, over in the east there was one at East Hoathly. There were others but my memory isn’t as sharp as it was!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@TheGrandWazoo also helpfully previously posted on a similar query last year. This was as regards the (former) Southdown bus station at Haywards Heath.

That was indeed the Southdown bus station. I remember reading somewhere that the slightly art-deco religious profile was a consequence of the sloping profile of the land. Looks like it was a single platform with a canopy. Photo here (not mine)

AYJ94T Southdown 94 Haywards Heath

This 1979 Leyland National 11351A/1R was new in 1979. It passed to Hastings and District and then Stagecoach South (with the Hants & Surrey operation). It is standing here in front of a sister bus with the backdrop of the old Haywards Heath Bus Station which has now passed into oblivion.

www.flickr.com

Southdown apparently didn't believe in having bus stations except at certain key strategic locations such as HH, Lewes, Eastbourne, though some were often co-located with depots.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Rummaging around in a dusty old pile of stuff I found a booklet published by the Southdown Enthusiasts Club dating from March 1980. Whilst it doesn’t list outstations as such, the following locations are listed as depots, complete with rail-style two-letter depot codes:

BN - Edward Street, Freshfield Road, Moulsecoomb

BR - Bognor

CB - Crowborough

CH - Chichester

CS - Conway Street

EB - Eastbourne

HD - Henfield

HH - Haywards Heath

HK - Hassocks

HL - Hailsham

HS - Horsham

LS - Lewes

MH - Midhurst

PM - Winston Churchill Avenue, Emsworth, Hambledon, Hayling Island, Hilsea, Hoeford, Leigh Park, Petersfield

SF - Seaford

SG - Steyning

SN - Storrington

UD - Uckfield

WG - Worthing

WK - Whitehawk

That was just before Crowborough closed.

In early Southdown days there were several dormey sheds! Ashington was one. Dial Post and Cowfold were others, over in the east there was one at East Hoathly. There were others but my memory isn’t as sharp as it was!

Some of those do ring a bell too.

What you had were true outstations with no facilities, some being a small shed for 2-6 vehicles but with a few a little larger. You had sub-depots that had some facilities (some more than others) and had their own allocations. Then you had the main depots.

So with Eastbourne.... You'd have the main depot in Cavendish Place. There would be Hailsham that was a reasonably sized sub depot that had some facilities, then a quite substantial outstation at Seaford.

 

[Ken H]

does anyone know the nature of the relationship between Southdown and Portsmouth City Transport? They seemed to be in 'Portsmouth Area Joint Transport services' and published a joint timetable.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

does anyone know the nature of the relationship between Southdown and Portsmouth City Transport? They seemed to be in 'Portsmouth Area Joint Transport services' and published a joint timetable.

I suspect it was one of similar agreements (e.g. Plymouth, Brighton).

Back in the olden days under the 1930 Transport Act, the corpy traditionally did the services in a town/city whilst the "county" operator ran in from outside, often with restrictions on where they could pick up/set down in order to protect the Corpy.

However, especially in the post war where city centre slum clearance/bomb damage meant the building of peripheral housing estates on the edge of the cities, then this had an effect on how you served those areas. They were outside the borough (so perhaps should've been Southdown) but would it able to do so efficiently without the ability to set down/pick up? Meanwhile, the Corpy would be losing passengers from the relocation to these new estates. In such instances, arrangements made to share mileage in order to more efficiently serve these places, fares would be agreed, and timetables jointly managed.

 

[Surreyman]

As Grand Wazoo states, Portsmouth was badly bombed in the war, new houses were built in Leigh Park from the late 1940s to the north east of the city on the 'mainland' to re-house those who were 'bombed-out', Portsmouth City Transport ran most of the bus services from Pompey to Leigh Park and had a depot/outstation there, shared with Southdown who were the 'out of town' bus company.

 

[Ken H]

As Grand Wazoo states, Portsmouth was badly bombed in the war, new houses were built in Leigh Park from the late 1940s to the north east of the city on the 'mainland' to re-house those who were 'bombed-out', Portsmouth City Transport ran most of the bus services from Pompey to Leigh Park and had a depot/outstation there, shared with Southdown who were the 'out of town' bus company.

thanks Surreyman and grandWazoo. Leeds (where i grew up) city buses penetrated to adjoining boroughs like Horsforth, Pudsey and Morley. Noth of the city the just extended city borders. The only exception was Red Hall, a Leeds council estate outside Leeds border , which West Yorkshire RCC served. There was the oddity of the WYRCC 40 to Stanks in competition with the Leeds City 40 to Stanks. There were no joint services with Leeds City (Except the 72 to Bradford joint with Bradford City, and the 55 to Bruntcliffe joint with Yorkshore Woolen) There was definitely a restriction on out of town buses doing local journies north of the city. i dont know if that was true south of the city in West Riding and Yorkshire Woolen territory. No restrictions today BTW.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

thanks Surreyman and grandWazoo. Leeds (where i grew up) city buses penetrated to adjoining boroughs like Horsforth, Pudsey and Morley. Noth of the city the just extended city borders. The only exception was Red Hall, a Leeds council estate outside Leeds border , which West Yorkshire RCC served. There was the oddity of the WYRCC 40 to Stanks in competition with the Leeds City 40 to Stanks. There were no joint services with Leeds City (Except the 72 to Bradford joint with Bradford City, and the 55 to Bruntcliffe joint with Yorkshore Woolen) There was definitely a restriction on out of town buses doing local journies north of the city. i dont know if that was true south of the city in West Riding and Yorkshire Woolen territory. No restrictions today BTW.

Service 40 wouldn't have been in competition as such but would have been co-ordinated; there were all manner of restrictions on stopping services in municipal boroughs etc in those days as both Municipals, BET/BTC firms and others sought to protect their businesses.

The schemes in Portsmouth and Brighton were a more practical approach to dealing with the issues of slum clearance and peripheral estates extending over borough boundaries. In some cases, it also involved the removal of tram and trolleybus networks where the established route would terminate short of the required new destination. Keeping on the Southdown theme, there was the BATS scheme in Brighton, where BET owned Southdown worked alongside both Brighton and Hove (Tilling/BTC) and Brighton Corporation on a pooling mileage/route sharing/revenue sharing basis.

 

[Simon75]

How many of the ex Southdown depots/outstations are still in use ?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How many of the ex Southdown depots/outstations are still in use ?

First still use Hilsea West for their Portsmouth services. Stagecoach use Chichester and Worthing, though one of the three Worthing sheds has been demolished whilst Henfield has a parking ground where the outstation was IIRC.

Whilst only Southdown in the NBC times when BH&D were taken over, Conway Street in Hove and Whitehawk in Brighton continue in use.

There are quite a few that are no longer in use as bus depots but are used for other purposes.

 

[Beemax]

The one in Petersfield in Station Road was a tyre depot when I lived there a few years ago (in Petersfield, not the tyre depot)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The one in Petersfield in Station Road was a tyre depot when I lived there a few years ago (in Petersfield, not the tyre depot)

I think it still is.

Hayling was mentioned by @ajs as still standing as a hardware store. Fareham and Hassocks in use as commercial garages. Handcross was used by a traffic light firm but went a few years ago. Heathfield was an outdoor supplies firm. Lewes is some sort of storage but it's clear that the owner has the site lined up for redevelopment.

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

Looking at a 1986 edition of the Southdown Enthusiasts Club booklet quoted from earlier, it appears that Steyning was included in the resurrection of the B,H&D operation at the time that Southdown was split up in preparation for deregulation, though it’s described as “open parking only” at Fletchers Croft car park.

 

[Robertj21a]

First still use Hilsea West for their Portsmouth services. Stagecoach use Chichester and Worthing, though one of the three Worthing sheds has been demolished whilst Henfield has a parking ground where the outstation was IIRC.

Whilst only Southdown in the NBC times when BH&D were taken over, Conway Street in Hove and Whitehawk in Brighton continue in use.

There are quite a few that are no longer in use as bus depots but are used for other purposes.

I'm sure there used to be one at Bolney, by the A23.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm sure there used to be one at Bolney, by the A23.

There was. I believe the doors were reused in the Amberley Museum replica bus depot.

 

[Paulus01]

There was a post which was closed last year and I have only just got round to seeing out about an Outstation/Dormey Shed at Bolney on the A23

Was this in the southbound carriageway. I seem to remember it when i was younger going down to Brighton on a Sunday and I always wondered if it was a Bus Garage of Some sort. Appeared to look like it only held as couple of vehicles it was against the hills from

what i remember?

Very interested in any other photos anyone else has of Southdown Outstations/Domy Sheds please

Thanks so much if anyone could assist

 

[Roger1973]

The Colin Morris book mentioned in your thread last year mentions (but does not have a photograph of) an outstation at Bolney on London Road (although not in any more detail than that), described as corrugated iron with sliding doors, 30 ft by 24 ft, so big enough for maybe 2 buses, which it says was used until 1963.

The map collection held by the National Library of Scotland has a fair collection of large scale maps from the 50s / 60s (among others) - This is from the 1950s.

Speculation on my part, but wonder if this building might be it? Possibly a bit too big?

A quick search for Southdown Bolney on Flickr hasn't come up with anything relevant.

I take it you're aware of the Southdown Enthusiasts' Club? They do a number of publications, although the ones on their current sales list seem to be more fleet history than anything else, but may be worth enquiring.

 

[GusB]

There was a post which was closed last year and I have only just got round to seeing out about an Outstation/Dormey Shed at Bolney on the A23

Was this in the southbound carriageway. I seem to remember it when i was younger going down to Brighton on a Sunday and I always wondered if it was a Bus Garage of Some sort. Appeared to look like it only held as couple of vehicles it was against the hills from

what i remember?

Very interested in any other photos anyone else has of Southdown Outstations/Domy Sheds please

Thanks so much if anyone could assist

Could you please explain what you mean by "Domy/Dormy/Dormey" shed?

 

[busken]

A small shed, usually big enough for 1 or 2 buses at the end of a longer route so that vehicles were available for early morning runs back to town. Also known as outstations. The driver/crew would live locally. Popular in the 50's but don't know of any now. I think the name comes from the French dormir, "to sleep"

 

[GusB]

A small shed, usually big enough for 1 or 2 buses at the end of a longer route so that vehicles were available for early morning runs back to town. Also known as outstations. The driver/crew would live locally. Popular in the 50's but don't know of any now. I think the name comes from the French dormir, "to sleep"

I had gathered as much - I was just trying to establish the proper spelling, given that the OP has used 3 different versions!

 

[Roger1973]

Think it's an abbreviation for 'dormitory shed', as in somewhere that bus/es stay overnight, but (generally) without fuelling or maintenance facilities, other than maybe for basic cleaning. Schedules would usually be constructed so that buses (and crews) would call in at a main depot each day for fuelling / washing and possible change-over for maintenance (for the bus) and paying in / collection of wages (for the crews)

I'm aware that Thames Valley seem to have used the term, but not sure that the abbreviated version was ever put on paper, so maybe there isn't an official spelling - although the histories of Thames Valley tend to use 'dormy'.

Don't think it was a term used universally - Lincolnshire (Road Car) and Eastern Counties, as far as I can tell, had 'outstations', as did London Transport (country bus) in a couple of locations.

 

[Gloster]

A bit of Googling of ‘ Dormy shed bus ‘ gives several results, including a card model. There is virtually nothing for the other two.

 

[jammy36]

There was a post which was closed last year and I have only just got round to seeing out about an Outstation/Dormey Shed at Bolney on the A23

Was this in the southbound carriageway. I seem to remember it when i was younger going down to Brighton on a Sunday and I always wondered if it was a Bus Garage of Some sort. Appeared to look like it only held as couple of vehicles it was against the hills from

what i remember?

Very interested in any other photos anyone else has of Southdown Outstations/Domy Sheds please

Thanks so much if anyone could assist

@Paulus01 Sorry for the late reply. Southdown's garage at Bolney was located on the east side of the London Road on land bounding Bolney Common. I believe almost opposite the junction with Top Street.

The garage comprised a basic lockable shed, 22ft wide and 30ft deep, capable of holding two open-top buses. It was of simple construction, comprising a concrete slab and dwarf brick walls with a timber framed and corrugated clad superstructure. It probably opened in 1921, with the land initially leased until being purchased in 1923.

The garage was modified in 1949 with the roof raised to accept taller highbridge double deckers (Southdown having been rebodying pre-war deckers to highbridge configuration as new vehicles were in short supply).

Bolney garage closed in 1964 - perhaps because the cost of rebuilding to accommodate newer 36ft long vehicles was too great to justify. After closure the garage was used to store delicensed vehicles until 1968 when it passed to some bus preservationists, with a Jersey single deck bus and a Southdown Leyland TD1 housed there.

The "great storm" of 1987 ultimately did for the garage, which was struck by a falling tree and the shed's superstructure collapsed.