SEtrains
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Kingsbury. Either 465920/465921 and a 466
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Southeastern metro fleet replacement/improvement
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brad465
Established Member
I'll be annoyed if 921 goes to Kingsbury as I'd like to see that one off, but the route to Kingsbury is too far away for me for a last minute trip. For Newport drags on the other hand I can easily get to Bristol Parkway, as I did for a couple of /2 drags. 933 and 934 are the other 9s I'd be keen to catch, otherwise I'm not overly fussed about the rest of the stored units of both classes.
What's the point of front end cameras? Can't the driver just look out the window if its on the front?
I’m guessing it’s part of a track/infrastructure monitoring camera. We’ve had them on 378s before.
LA50041
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Its a track monitoring camera, nothing to do with the driver
brad465
Established Member
Still no move tomorrow logged, even Flying Scotsman diagrams have appeared in RTT by now relative to when they've begun.
Robin Edwards
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The past few weeks have seen the move scheduled a couple of days in advance but not sure why nothing lodged so far for tomorrow?
SEtrains
Member
Realtime Trains | 5Q66 0830 Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings to Kingsbury Emr Sidings | 12/06/2025
Real-time train running information for 5Q66 0830 departure from Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings to Kingsbury Emr Sidings on 12/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
brad465
Established Member
RailCam Diagrams think only 466033 is on the drag interestingly. Unless there is also a 465 but it hasn't been identified yet.
SEtrains
Member
May well be the case but I’d have thought that it would make more sense to clear out Ely so that units still stored at Worksop can be moved to Ely if they are to be moved to ely
Edit: was just 466033
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Robin Edwards
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I have to say it seems a painfully slow way of moving unwanted stock from one location to another if only a single two-car unit at a time??
Surplus and off lease, those ones from Ely. Effectively replaced by 707s a couple of years ago.
RealTrains07
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This what i am wondering. if 465s + 466 10 car sets are replaced like for like with the 707s then thats at least 15 466 units removed and 30 465s??
I do get the feeling SE with use this as an opportunity to remove more 465s and 466s than need to be replaced and will start short forming more and more of the remaining 465s services
Given the lack of 707s and 376s compared the 465s for the metro routes, they will have to sort something out. Perhaps a newer metro version of the Electrostar?
From some impromptu research at my local station, I think I have made a list of what trains go past with 21 trains (+2 466s coupled) over the span of 4 hours (over the span of several weekends during off peak times between April to now):
465s - 11
- 6 /0s
- 4 /1s
- 1 /9 (though I have not written it down, I remember seeing a lot more /9s just 2 years ago)
707s - 7
Makes sense given how the 376 is the least plentiful of the three, but surely having 85% of the metro fleet being two completely different trains is not good long term.
I was under the impression 707s can't do many of the 10 car 465 / 466 routes due to no toilet facilities?
brad465
Established Member
707s can't do Tunbridge Wells' diagrams, which Mon-Thu are now all 10-car Networkers (before May it was 3x 8-car and 2x 10-car), both due to lack of toilets and are not cleared to Tunbridge Wells. There are also some 10-car Networkers on peak diagrams to/from Strood or Gillingham.
They may also have the problem that carriage length variety is limited and certain routes need more options than others. 707s can only be 5 or 10-car, whereas Networkers with 466s available can be 4/6/8/10 and in a few cases 12-car. On the Tunbridge Wells' route, I suspect that there are days/times where 10-cars is excessive, such as Fridays and Saturdays, but 5-cars is too short, whereas 8-cars is just right.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
Recent observations at my part of the network suggests that increasingly Gillingham stoppers are being formed of 4 coaches most of the day including the peaks, not all of them by any means but certainly the booked xx.42 And appropriate return patterns from Victoria. Have been a lot of four-car working since the timetable change, observed the 1842 at Victoria on Wednesday evening and it was rather cosy
D365
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Great Northern wouldn’t have ’sent’ their former trains to an entirely different operator, which were being handed over to Eversholt at that point. But that’s by-the-by.
Oh well. Just some speculation.
On a completely different note, I am very thankful right now that the 465/0s have air con today because of how hot it is. Makes you wonder why SE didn't originally spec the 376 to have air con too.
Glad they changed their ways with the 707 and I hope they have AC on whatever replaces the Networkers.
On a completely different note, I am very thankful right now that the 465/0s have air con today because of how hot it is. Makes you wonder why SE didn't originally spec the 376 to have air con too.
Glad they changed their ways with the 707 and I hope they have AC on whatever replaces the Networkers.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
No aircon on any networker I've ever met. Apart from possibly in the driver's cab? The 707 were not specified by Southeastern but originally ordered for SWR but certainly is a benefit. There seems to be a lot of failed air conditioning this year and last for that matter, no doubt maintenance cutbacks but makes you wonder if opening window is aren't the way to go after all
brad465
Established Member
I actually did a thread about that specific service being rather short-formed and appearing busy at least as far as St Mary Cray, wondering if it needed more support, either by lengthening it, or adding an additional one at 19:12 (or both). While the 18:12 is now 8-car (previously 6), the 18:42 is the last service on its calling pattern for another hour, compounded by its 4-car length while a peak-time departure. If a 19:12 departure existed, some passengers wouldn't be in as much of a hurry, while a longer 18:42 could accommodate all those rushing for it.
The BREL Networkers have air con, but it's not very powerful in my opinion and you need to physically adjust the vent positions. I believe the Met Cam ones have it too, but it's of a different spec and not sure how it's controlled.
Mikey C
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That's not aircon. It's eyeball vents, like those in cars when you turn the fan on, but don't have aircon.
The air coming out of the vents is colder that the air in the train slightly. That's a win for me, although its probably more like a fan. Reminds me of my dad's old car and its "air con".
No air con. It appears colder as its like a draft from the vents.
The worst of all are the 376s. No air con, no vents, boiling hot and the windows do next to nothing. Well nothing at all really. impressive how they managed that. The flow from very narrow window sort of disperses providing no relief
The worst of all are the 376s. No air con, no vents, boiling hot and the windows do next to nothing. Well nothing at all really. impressive how they managed that. The flow from very narrow window sort of disperses providing no relief
All 465s have cab air con which was retro fitted years ago. Although it's a bit hit and miss and can be very noisy. The BREL version is better than the MetCam version. It has more vents and doesn't keep stopping and starting like the Metcam version can do.
I wonder why the 465s still look the same on the front whereas the 365s had to change to the "happy face" to get AC in the cab.
The Metro-Cammell 465s and 466s had their driver air conditioning fitted on the roof, removing the smooth finish, whereas the 365s had it fitted below the driver window.
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brad465
Established Member
Despite this, it's not uncommon to get 2x 466s in an 8-car formation with a 465, so the 466s are effectively substituting a 465. Yesterday there appeared to be 2x allocations like this in the Metro area; today an 8-car with 2x 466s did one of the Ramsgate specials.
The perks (or downsides) of having an odd number of 465s left. Also yesterday I saw a 10-car arrangement where the 466 was in the middle of the 465s. Can someone tell me the reason why they do this and not put the 466 on the ends like normal? Perhaps the hot weather necessitated the driver having an air conditioned cab?