Southeastern to Waterloo Mainline (29/8~1/9/17, next Xmas 2017)

[WA_Driver]

I would say CD/RA will be fitted/used. As no doubt empty rolling stock to Clapham Yard & Wimbledon Park, which is DOO will be leaving from those platforms.

And platform dispatch are trained to used CD/RA on existing platforms at Waterloo

 

[GW43125]

I would say CD/RA will be fitted/used. As no doubt empty rolling stock to Clapham Yard & Wimbledon Park, which is DOO will be leaving from those platforms.

A friend of mine who drives fpr swt says that it's fitted and is used for ECS

 

[Bookd]

I am puzzled by comment 46 that no SWT drivers sign the international platforms (except in so far as the track has been relaid so it could be said to be brand new). Some Windsor line trains were using platform 20 before it was closed, and someone must have been driving them!

 

[pompeyfan]

I am puzzled by comment 46 that no SWT drivers sign the international platforms (except in so far as the track has been relaid so it could be said to be brand new). Some Windsor line trains were using platform 20 before it was closed, and someone must have been driving them!

Competency only lasts for 6 month, plus the fact all the signalling and all the track and pointwork has been completely re laid.

 

[Bookd]

So in that case no-one signs the route, so this would have to be addressed regardless of operator. As an outsider I am just asking, but n this basis there would be no qualified pilot either.

 

[Bigfoot]

Competency only lasts for 6 month, plus the fact all the signalling and all the track and pointwork has been completely re laid.

There have been comprehensive route videos produced for the 'new' international platforms so all drivers will soon sign them.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Two months to go now until this all kicks off. Any updates on driver familiarisation, or any ECS tests between Linford Jn and Waterloo? Or will they wait until early August to do this?

 

[WA_Driver]

No route learning packages have been issued and no drivers have been given route learning days for the new Waterloo platforms.....no idea about test trains

 

[swt_passenger]

No route learning packages have been issued and no drivers have been given route learning days for the new Waterloo platforms.....no idea about test trains

A poster in the other Waterloo blockade thread last week said that test trains into the former international platforms would start this week.

No idea if it happened yet, but this looks relevant to testing: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q09740/2017/07/03/advanced

W912 is the signal on the Windsor reversible that would allow access to the international platforms, that line is under T3 possession.

 

[theironroad]

A poster in the other Waterloo blockade thread last week said that test trains into the former international platforms would start this week.

No idea if it happened yet, but this looks relevant to testing: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q09740/2017/07/03/advanced

W912 is the signal on the Windsor reversible that would allow access to the international platforms, that line is under T3 possession.

....and with 5 trips into the platforms from w912, that might suggest a test trip into each of 20-24. Might be something to do with gauge clearance on each platform.

 

[theironroad]

No route learning packages have been issued and no drivers have been given route learning days for the new Waterloo platforms.....no idea about test trains

As mentioned, it seems that it's been agreed the route learning is the videos online.

 

[swt_passenger]

....and with 5 trips into the platforms from w912, that might suggest a test trip into each of 20-24. Might be something to do with gauge clearance on each platform.

Perhaps. We already discussed in the other threads there is some issue with RTT possibly not displaying platform numbers in the P21-24 area, so the fact that P20 only appears once may mean others are also being accessed. It's still the same for the August period, P20 is shown but none of the others.

Someone might notice what is happening during the rest of the week...

 

[XDM]

As mentioned, it seems that it's been agreed the route learning is the videos online.

I am told that SWT drivers are being given a certain number of hours overtime to study the route learning gvideos in their own time or when spare on duty in the mess room.

 

[Frontera2]

Two months to go now until this all kicks off. Any updates on driver familiarisation, or any ECS tests between Linford Jn and Waterloo? Or will they wait until early August to do this?

First SE test train runs into Waterloo over the Linford Street curve on 10th July

 

[TEW]

I am told that SWT drivers are being given a certain number of hours overtime to study the route learning gvideos in their own time or when spare on duty in the mess room.

That's correct. I had heard rumours that that method of learning hadn't been accepted by drivers (I don't know if that's just some drivers, or some depots), but I haven't seen any evidence to back that up yet. Guards have been issued with the same videos and paperwork regarding despatch on the new platforms, again with a payment for learning in their own time.

 

[Bigfoot]

That's correct. I had heard rumours that that method of learning hadn't been accepted by drivers (I don't know if that's just some drivers, or some depots), but I haven't seen any evidence to back that up yet. Guards have been issued with the same videos and paperwork regarding despatch on the new platforms, again with a payment for learning in their own time.

It was agreed by the aslef company council. So drivers can like it or lump it the unions have agreed that will be the method of learning.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It was agreed by the aslef company council. So drivers can like it or lump it the unions have agreed that will be the method of learning.

No have to about it, you have to sign for it, don't sign for the USB stick and the payment, then there's not a lot they can do about it.

After all It's your neck on the line if you screw up. I will be taking a lot of extra care when the new layout gets commissioned and I really don't care if it incurs TINS.

 

[Class 170101]

How secure is route learning the new layout for South Eastern drivers now that Platform 10 at Waterloo will be out of use 5 - 28 August? Surely more pressure now on the International Platforms now that one more is out. No room for test trains?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

How secure is route learning the new layout for South Eastern drivers now that Platform 10 at Waterloo will be out of use 5 - 28 August? Surely more pressure now on the International Platforms now that one more is out. No room for test trains?

That will be up to NR to sort out. Not SW or SEs problem.

This clash is down to NR and they're assuming that everything will run perfectly, they don't learn from other engineering projects and just because a computer says it's possible, doesn't mean it is, as the computer doesn't take into account any form of contingency for error, breakdown or machine malfunction.

 

[Malcolmffc]

That will be up to NR to sort out. Not SW or SEs problem.

This clash is down to NR and they're assuming that everything will run perfectly, they don't learn from other engineering projects and just because a computer says it's possible, doesn't mean it is, as the computer doesn't take into account any form of contingency for error, breakdown or machine malfunction.

It does seem extraordinarily optimistic for NR to be scheduling a highly unusual move that hasn't been done for over 10 years the day after a major 3 week blockade ends.

 

[bb21]

No have to about it, you have to sign for it, don't sign for the USB stick and the payment, then there's not a lot they can do about it.

After all It's your neck on the line if you screw up. I will be taking a lot of extra care when the new layout gets commissioned and I really don't care if it incurs TINS.

Are you saying now that your union would accept something that is unsafe?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The problem I have with learning something from a virtual reality/video is that it lacks the crucial feel of the real world, real thing, you simply can't judge distances, like you do and can when you do it for real. My neck and job is on the line and management are all too ready to come down on you like a ton of bricks if you screw it up.

That's what they don't seem to get.

 

[theironroad]

It does seem extraordinarily optimistic for NR to be scheduling a highly unusual move that hasn't been done for over 10 years the day after a major 3 week blockade ends.

Extremely naive planning is a polite way of putting it. The Waterloo blockade only needs to run over by a day and there's going to be chaos at Waterloo, Waterloo east, London bridge and Charing cross.

Almost as stupid as having a franchise change for the first time in 21 years and the biggest engineering work blockade at the busiest passenger station in the country in decades both take place at the same time.

Not sure if it's the the monty python school of management or a script for a new carry on film.

 

[theironroad]

The problem I have with learning something from a virtual reality/video is that it lacks the crucial feel of the real world, real thing, you simply can't judge distances, like you do and can when you do it for real. My neck and job is on the line and management are all too ready to come down on you like a ton of bricks if you screw it up.

That's what they don't seem to get.

I've heard there will be a separate procedure if people don't want to sign up. I think they reckon most will take the offer on the table at the moment. Anyway it's too late to give every driver a roads day and obviously some of the stuff is still virtual reality as hasn't been fitted yet. While I wouldn't want to learn miles of routes by virtual and dvd, these changes are mainly glorified shunt moves.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I've heard there will be a separate procedure if people don't want to sign up. I think they reckon most will take the offer on the table at the moment. Anyway it's too late to give every driver a roads day and obviously some of the stuff is still virtual reality as hasn't been fitted yet. While I wouldn't want to learn miles of routes by virtual and dvd, these changes are mainly glorified shunt moves.

Maybe to you, but some of us prefer method traditional to do things, you get a far better understanding of what is going on and distances, gaps in the juice rails and so on. Something that you simply cannot do with a DVD or VR presentation.

 

[XDM]

The problem I have with learning something from a virtual reality/video is that it lacks the crucial feel of the real world, real thing, you simply can't judge distances, like you do and can when you do it for real. My neck and job is on the line and management are all too ready to come down on you like a ton of bricks if you screw it up.

That's what they don't seem to get.

Airline pilots almost always have to learn new airports & new aircraft virtually & the industry is as safe as rail. Just take it slowly the first time for real, something a pilot cannot do!

 

[Class 466]

Test running into/out of Waterloo Commences next week.

 

[GW43125]

Test running into/out of Waterloo Commences next week.

I've seen photographic evidence of a 458 in there yesterday.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Airline pilots almost always have to learn new airports & new aircraft virtually & the industry is as safe as rail. Just take it slowly the first time for real, something a pilot cannot do!

Airline pilots have full-motion simulators and dedicated time in which to use them. The graphics are also on all sides of them so there's a visual sense of movement on all axes. Plus; they have active control and; except for everything looking a tad more pixel-y and not dying in a fiery inferno if they crash; they are for all intents and purposes doing it for real
Train crew are expected to do this sat on their sofa passively watching it on their laptop screen whilst the neighbour's mowing the lawn and the tap's dripping and the baby wants changing and yada yada yada. Not quite the same as driving in at dawn under restrictive aspects in low sun with five other trains coming and going next to you.
If the route learning was scheduled to be on the simulator at Basingstoke; say; it probably wouldn't be so bad; but unlike the airline industry there aren't that many simulators lying around and it'd be cheaper to use a real train most of the time anyway. So in short; there's quite a disparity between airline pilots learning by simulation and train crew.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The sims at Basingstoke are nicknamed the vomit comets as they only have forward vision and nothing to the sides and they don't have any sense of motion like wobble etc, which when using them can cause motion sickness, even though you're not going anywhere.