Southern Class 313 withdrawal/storage/scrapping updates

[Islineclear3_1]

It’s 377315, currently working 1S26 1500 Brighton - Portsmouth & S

At least it's more comfortable and has a toilet

 

[TST2022]

At least it's more comfortable and has a toilet

I would honestly prefer a /3 on a Portsmouth because of the fact it's all 2+2 good seats and it has a toilet and I would sit in first class with my pinkie up (declassified because it's a standard only service)

Hello all! What is the current status of 313217

 

[317 forever]

Well. I don't think that the 377/5 will be going to Southern as the reason is that there are delays about the remaining 707's going to South Eastern Railways from South Western Railways.

I wonder whether the South Eastern timetable change will reduce the total number of units required, enabling some more 377s to move across to Southern then or soon after?

 

[PGAT]

Southern desperately needs the 377/5s more than Southeastern.

 

[WizCastro197]

According the Modern railways August Edition and Wikipedia, Southern will receive 387s presumably from Great Northern either this year or next.

Is the proposed 377/5 move officially confirmed or completely speculation?

 

[PGAT]

According the Modern railways August Edition and Wikipedia, Southern will receive 387s presumably from Great Northern either this year or next.

Is the proposed 377/5 move officially confirmed or completely speculation?

We've only got 2 months left this year so probably will be ready by May 2023 timetable possibly. Also can the 387s couple with 377/6s for regular passenger services?

 

[WizCastro197]

We've only got 2 months left this year so probably will be ready by May 2023 timetable possibly. Also can the 387s couple with 377/6s for regular passenger services?

Yes presumably as they both have the same couplings, although maybe something is different which prevents them from being in the common pool with rest of the 377s

 

[PGAT]

Also when I'm travelling I usually see at least 1 377/5 at Selhurst depot, could it be related to the transfer?

 

[WizCastro197]

Also when I'm travelling I usually see at least 1 377/5 at Selhurst depot, could it be related to the transfer?

No. Southeastern stable their 377s at Selhurst with Southern and have been doing so for quite a while.

 

[aleggatta]

Also can the 387s couple with 377/6s for regular passenger services?

Software and hardware limitation’s currently prevent this, but it’s unknown what project aurora might have to play in the compatibility of the hardware differences (mainly DOO equipment being from differing manufacturers)

 

[physics34]

According the Modern railways August Edition and Wikipedia, Southern will receive 387s presumably from Great Northern either this year or next.

Is the proposed 377/5 move officially confirmed or completely speculation?

It was confirmed by an internal notice that 13x377/5 will transfer from SE to Southern (to replace 313s) end of august ready for the sept timetable. This clearly has been delayed due to the 701 debacle on SW, which is causing a delay to southeastern recieving more 707s.

The 387 move to southern from GN was on the cards if GN was to recieve the off lease Stansted 379s. There has been silence on this for months, with the high leasing cost of the 379s deemed to be the issue.

 

[PGAT]

So 46 Class 455s went in May, with another 20 313s leaving next May with only 13 377/5s and 2 377/1s to compensate.

 

[physics34]

So 46 Class 455s went in May, with another 20 313s leaving next May with only 13 377/5s and 2 377/1s to compensate.

Yep. Bonkers eh.. hence i do think the 379/387 thing will still eventually happen, it has to if they want more people to travel. Dont forget all bar one of the scottish 171s have gone too too.

The 313s are being relatively lightly used i believe???

The 377/5s were going to go on metro services to allow 313 diagrams to be replaced with 377/3s.

 

[PGAT]

Yep. Bonkers eh.. hence i do think the 379/387 thing will still eventually happen. Dont forget the scottish 171s too.

The 313s are being relatively lightly used i believe???

The 377/5s were going to go on metro services to allow 313 diagrams to be replaced with 377/3s.

I would've guessed the 387s would have coupled or ran on their own with the 377/6 on metro routes and 377/5 run on metro routes.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The 377/5s were going to go on metro services to allow 313 diagrams to be replaced with 377/3s.

So the wheel will have turned full circle then as I remember the (then) new 375/3's working East and West Coastway services with the early '1's back in 2003 (ish)

The 313s are being relatively lightly used i believe???

Still intensively used on Brighton-Seafords and Littlehampton - Portsmouth's. Not sure if they are still 3 x 313 diagrams every weekday on the Brighton - Portsmouth's

 

[43096]

Yep. Bonkers eh.. hence i do think the 379/387 thing will still eventually happen, it has to if they want more people to travel. Dont forget all bar one of the scottish 171s have gone too too.

The 313s are being relatively lightly used i believe???

The 377/5s were going to go on metro services to allow 313 diagrams to be replaced with 377/3s.

It's not bonkers at all. With revenue at around 80-85% of pre-pandemic levels, a fleet reduction to 85% of what it was is an entirely logical and proportionate response - the sort of thing BR would have done faced with the same situation.

It's astonishing how many people think that fleets should just carry on as before in the face of massive cost crisis, both on the railway and more widely in public spending. It is simple unsustainable to maintain the previous fleet sizes.

 

[PGAT]

This might have been answered already but how many 313s are used in regular service every day?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

This might have been answered already but how many 313s are used in regular service every day?

On a weekday I think there are 12 or 13 diagrams, but not all of them are all day

 

[physics34]

It's not bonkers at all. With revenue at around 80-85% of pre-pandemic levels, a fleet reduction to 85% of what it was is an entirely logical and proportionate response - the sort of thing BR would have done faced with the same situation.

It's astonishing how many people think that fleets should just carry on as before in the face of massive cost crisis, both on the railway and more widely in public spending. It is simple unsustainable to maintain the previous fleet sizes.

4 v 8 on watford services
8v 10 on cat /tatt services, but no sign of vic to cat tatt services returning.
No vic to west croydons after 8pm to name but a few things.

Yes its bonkers reducing stock without replacements.

The response by the dft is disproportionate considering leisure travel back at 100%

 

[PGAT]

On a weekday I think there are 12 or 13 diagrams, but not all of them are all day

So with 28 377/3s that would only allow 1 or 2 services to run with the 377/4 + 377/3 + 377/3 combo, many trains probably won't run 10 coaches anymore.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

So with 28 377/3s that would only allow 1 or 2 services to run with the 377/4 + 377/3 + 377/3 combo, many trains probably won't run 10 coaches anymore.

Maybe 8-car 377/5's

 

[nw1]

Incidentally, a bit OT but not completely - when did the very first 313s enter service? Wikipedia says 1976 but what exact time of year? Just interested to find out exactly how young I was when the oldest still-extant class was introduced!

 

[PGAT]

8 November 1976

Out of curiosity, what will be the next oldest EMUs after the 313s?

 

[nw1]

8 November 1976

OK, thanks for that. Was expecting May (with the timetable change) but evidently not.

 

[jackot]

8 November 1976

Out of curiosity, what will be the next oldest EMUs after the 313s?

Class 507s - they are 1978 from memory.

 

[nw1]

It's not bonkers at all. With revenue at around 80-85% of pre-pandemic levels, a fleet reduction to 85% of what it was is an entirely logical and proportionate response - the sort of thing BR would have done faced with the same situation.

It's astonishing how many people think that fleets should just carry on as before in the face of massive cost crisis, both on the railway and more widely in public spending. It is simple unsustainable to maintain the previous fleet sizes.

Though in 1982/3, during economic difficult times, BR withdrew the last lot of SUBs en masse and replaced them, essentially, with 455s.

 

[03_179]

It was confirmed by an internal notice that 13x377/5 will transfer from SE to Southern (to replace 313s) end of august ready for the sept timetable. This clearly has been delayed due to the 701 debacle on SW, which is causing a delay to southeastern recieving more 707s.

The 387 move to southern from GN was on the cards if GN was to recieve the off lease Stansted 379s. There has been silence on this for months, with the high leasing cost of the 379s deemed to be the issue.

Strange I haven't heard that at all.
I'll have a word with those involved and ask

 

[XCTurbostar]

Since it was mentioned earlier in the thread, how often do wheel lathe 313 movements to Selhurst happen?

 

[JonathanH]

The response by the dft is disproportionate considering leisure travel back at 100%

Leisure travel back at 100% does not require peak extras such as Victoria to Tattenham / Caterham services to run. Neither does it need the fleet to be restored to its previous level.

 

[PGAT]

Leisure travel back at 100% does not require peak extras such as Victoria to Tattenham / Caterham services to run. Neither does it need the fleet to be restored to its previous level.

There are more peaks that need to come back more than the Victorias from Caterham