Southern Class 313 withdrawal/storage/scrapping updates

[trainmania100]

Nearest you'll get to Eastbourne on a 313 is Lewes

Nearest you'll get to Southampton on a 313 is Bedhampton and Portsmouth

Are any still booked to go to Portsmouth harbour or is it all Southsea now ?

 

[JonathanH]

Are any still booked to go to Portsmouth harbour or is it all Southsea now ?

They will still go to the Harbour station on some services from Brighton.

 

[Kite159]

If you take the Southampton - Brighton train to Havant the 313 on the Littlehampton stopper is right behind. Then you just need to get from Littlehampton to West Worthing for a stopper to Brighton, then something for Seaford/Lewes. Check though if Brighton are at home in the kickball, Southern have put pairs of 313s on the Lewes shuttle calling only at Falmer.

Thats on a Saturday

 

[JonathanH]

Then you just need to get from Littlehampton to West Worthing for a stopper to Brighton, then something for Seaford/Lewes.

The West Worthing stopper runs for the last time this Saturday though and Portsmouth to Brighton trains tend to be 377s on Saturday.

 

[Tomp94]

Why? From the new timetable, they only work hourly Brighton to Portsmouth (3 diagrams), the Littlehampton to Bognor / Portsmouth cycle (4 diagrams) and Brighton to Seaford (3 diagrams). They aren't being put on anything else to release 377s and there are 19 units.

Removing the Hove shuttle, Lewes shuttle and West Worthing services saves 5 diagrams.

Christ, Southern are keeping the 313's on the Brighton to Portsmouth service? Pre-Covid this was a 377! The Brighton - Portsmouth service will be doing additional stops too, to make up for the lack of a west worthing stopper!
Canned in like Sardines comes to mind!

 

[BRblue33]

If you take the Southampton - Brighton train to Havant the 313 on the Littlehampton stopper is right behind. Then you just need to get from Littlehampton to West Worthing for a stopper to Brighton, then something for Seaford/Lewes. Check though if Brighton are at home in the kickball, Southern have put pairs of 313s on the Lewes shuttle calling only at Falmer.

Thats on a Saturday

Away at Leeds so 313's

 

[trainmania100]

Sunday 22nd may is the next home game so that will likely be 6/313s. If they're not at home then it's a usual service.

Don't think there's actually that many games left now, so you ought to make the most of it on the 22nd before the autumn when the nights get early...

 

[Bishopstone]

Christ, Southern are keeping the 313's on the Brighton to Portsmouth service? Pre-Covid this was a 377! The Brighton - Portsmouth service will be doing additional stops too, to make up for the lack of a west worthing stopper!
Canned in like Sardines comes to mind!

That was my reaction too. I mean, the A27 is a country byway around Arundel, and Chichester has its multiple roundabouts, but still preferable to Brighton-Portsmouth on a 313, calling all stations and wedged.

The Seafords and Bognor-Portsmouth stoppers are one thing, but to run out of 377s for the Brighton-Pompey trains is highly regrettable.

 

[JonathanH]

The Seafords and Bognor-Portsmouth stoppers are one thing, but to run out of 377s for the Brighton-Pompey trains is highly regrettable.

It is a matter of months though isn't it before the 313s are gone at which point the service will be 377s. Short term pain admittedly but the option also exists to use the Southampton train and change at Havant.

 

[bramling]

It is a matter of months though isn't it before the 313s are gone at which point the service will be 377s. Short term pain admittedly but the option also exists to use the Southampton train and change at Havant.

The interesting question is whether the replacing 377s are going to be 3-car or 4-car. If the Metro routes are being slimmed down, and this change is able to happen as a result of a change to the Metro timetables in September, then 3-car 377s returning to the coast could certainly be a possibility.

 

[OscarH]

Christ, Southern are keeping the 313's on the Brighton to Portsmouth service? Pre-Covid this was a 377!

Was it? If it was it can't have been for very long, I used to commute Chichester to Worthing every day till June 2019, and it was 313 on the Portsmouths then

 

[Bishopstone]

Was it? If it was it can't have been for very long, I used to commute Chichester to Worthing every day till June 2019, and it was 313 on the Portsmouths then

There were some 377s in the mix, as I used to aim for these when I had business in Portsmouth, helpfully identified by the First Class symbol in the timetable.

 

[OscarH]

Oh interesting, sounds like I was travelling at the wrong times then!

 

[Bikeman78]

Christ, Southern are keeping the 313's on the Brighton to Portsmouth service? Pre-Covid this was a 377! The Brighton - Portsmouth service will be doing additional stops too, to make up for the lack of a west worthing stopper!
Canned in like Sardines comes to mind!

I took a 313 from Pompey to Brighton back in April 2021. You are correct, it was packed from Worthing onwards. I think it was school holidays will which affect the loadings.

 

[43102EMR]

Word from Southern staff on the 455 tour yesterday is the 313s are expected to be gone in September and replaced by 377s, although they weren’t specific as to whether these would be the Southeastern 377/5s.

 

[Graham H]

There were some 377s in the mix, as I used to aim for these when I had business in Portsmouth, helpfully identified by the First Class symbol in the timetable.

Yes, if contemplating a night out and using trains anywhere between Brighton and Portsmouth it is always key to look for the 1st class symbol to avoid being caught short on a train without 'facilities'. I am pretty sure Southern realised the issue and increased the proportion of 377's during the evening hours soon after 313's appeared, probably at the request of the cleaners !
I have a feeling prior to 313 introduction that 377/3 worked a lot of short distance services so Southern just replaced 3 car for 3 car.

 

[prod_pep]

Yesterday, 313210, 215 and 220 were the three units on the last day of the West Worthing stoppers, whilst 313211 and 212 formed the Lewes workings.

Just the four out today: 313211, 215 and 220 on the Seaford line and 313205 on the Littlehampton - Bognor stopper.

Does anyone know if the Lewes workings will return on Amex matchdays or is that it in all circumstances?

 

[JonathanH]

Word from Southern staff on the 455 tour yesterday is the 313s are expected to be gone in September and replaced by 377s, although they weren’t specific as to whether these would be the Southeastern 377/5s.

Wouldn't the 377/5s just go into the general 377 pool and the whole 4-car fleet be operated indiscriminately (with part of the 377/2 fleet reserved for the few dual voltage diagrams)?

 

[43102EMR]

Wouldn't the 377/5s just go into the general 377 pool and the whole 4-car fleet be operated indiscriminately (with part of the 377/2 fleet reserved for the few dual voltage diagrams)?

By this I mean the 377/5s moving to Southern to enable internal cascading/general usage of other 377s (i.e. the /3s, which were originally allocated to the Coastway routes prior to the introduction of the 313s)

 

[MrB]

Wouldn't the 377/5s just go into the general 377 pool and the whole 4-car fleet be operated indiscriminately (with part of the 377/2 fleet reserved for the few dual voltage diagrams)?

Do southern have any dual voltage diagrams now the MK route is gone?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Do southern have any dual voltage diagrams now the MK route is gone?

Yes, the cut back MK route from Watford Junction to Clapham Junction.

Plus might be a change to that route in September too.

 

[aleggatta]

Yes, the cut back MK route from Watford Junction to Clapham Junction.

Plus might be a change to that route in September too.

is it possible to divert to the DC lines if only going to watford junction (no knowledge of track layout or current service demand on the DC lines so don't know if thats a completely unreasonable thought?) Also, in its cut back form it does seem to be a line ideal for TfL to take on to the overground network if they have unit capacity.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

is it possible to divert to the DC lines if only going to watford junction (no knowledge of track layout or current service demand on the DC lines so don't know if thats a completely unreasonable thought?) Also, in its cut back form it does seem to be a line ideal for TfL to take on to the overground network if they have unit capacity.

No it isn't possible to divert to the DC lines. Also why is it a prime service for TfL to take over. They have enough financial problems of their own at the minute.

 

[aleggatta]

No it isn't possible to divert to the DC lines. Also why is it a prime service for TfL to take over. They have enough financial problems of their own at the minute.

TfL have a new fleet of trains that were procured for pre covid timetables. If the route were to be taken over by TfL they could relieve some(reported future) unit pressure on GTR with the withdrawal of the legacy fleets, remove an outlying route to allow GTR to focus resources on existing routes whilst TfL get another source of revenue and better utilisation on units they are already committed to. Seems like an easy win-win to rationalise the services and resources required for them?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

TfL have a new fleet of trains that were procured for pre covid timetables. If the route were to be taken over by TfL they could relieve some(reported future) unit pressure on GTR with the withdrawal of the legacy fleets, remove an outlying route to allow GTR to focus resources on existing routes whilst TfL get another source of revenue and better utilisation on units they are already committed to. Seems like an easy win-win to rationalise the services and resources required for them?

Erm I don't think so, as TfL are back to full pre covid timetable pretty much.

Also, the Southern service will only be a Watford Junction - Clapham Junction service until September where something will change about it.

I can say that this defintley won't happen.

 

[prod_pep]

There still appear to be 12 weekday 313 diagrams, comprising three Brighton - Portsmouth, three Brighton - Seaford and four on the Littlehampton-Portsmouth-Bognor circuit off-peak, plus two peak-only diagrams. I think one of these is AM-only, while the other also forms the 1451 and 1651 Brighton - Littlehampton services in the afternoon.

Saturdays I assume are reduced to 8 diagrams from the previous 13 (three SEF, four LIT-PMS-BOG circuit and one Hove shuttle). Sundays are 4 diagrams (three SEF and one LIT-BOG).

 

[Islineclear3_1]

There still appear to be 12 weekday 313 diagrams, comprising three Brighton - Portsmouth, three Brighton - Seaford and four on the Littlehampton-Portsmouth-Bognor circuit off-peak, plus two peak-only diagrams. I think one of these is AM-only, while the other also forms the 1451 and 1651 Brighton - Littlehampton services in the afternoon.

Saturdays I assume are reduced to 8 diagrams from the previous 13 (three SEF, four LIT-PMS-BOG circuit and one Hove shuttle). Sundays are 4 diagrams (three SEF and one LIT-BOG).

That was roughly my understanding too and forgot that the Hove shuttles would still run on Saturdays. Bit daft IMO by not running them in the week too

 

[55002]

201 has been attacked by the graffiti artists alas

https://twitter.com/liammack313/status/1527881936592584704?s=21&t=vBLtrr0C9-kkiZ2F3X1G3w

 

[miklcct]

I'm waiting for a Brighton train at Barnham now and just saw a 313 in the opposite direction to Bognor Regis.

The Brighton train picking me up is an ordinary 377 again.

 

[Turtle]

201 has been attacked by the graffiti artists alas

https://twitter.com/liammack313/status/1527881936592584704?s=21&t=vBLtrr0C9-kkiZ2F3X1G3w

Vandals, please, not artists.