Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

[sarahj]

That's the one, I've got the print version, their comments are disingenuous as they know exactly what the sickness figures are for every member of staff as they are quick to put them on MFA if they trigger it.

Every person off sick has a sick note with a reason on it so there is no reason why they can't put out the number of Conductors unavailable at each depot through sickness, other duties or a vacancy

The problem with giving out the info is some are off due to injuries, some due to things like diabetes, some due to work related stress, others due to family illness and children about to get major surgery, etc, etc and the number goes up and down every day. No one can self cert either, so each person off, has a note from their doctor, and then you start to hit confidentiality rules as well.

But I know one thing, putting it out there, everywhere that every train late is due to staff sickness, is not helping 'our dear leaders' in their relationship with their workers.
And then you have the issue that folks who have had their travel privileges and parking passes removed are not inclined to come in on their days off, for the extra expense that now occurs. Plus, any extras on top of what they can offer to come in have been refused. So folks are just resting, on their rest days. And with whats going on, folks need that rest, believe me.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The problem with giving out the info is some are off due to injuries, some due to things like diabetes, some due to work related stress, others due to family illness and children about to get major surgery, etc, etc and the number goes up and down every day. No one can self cert either, so each person off, has a note from their doctor, and then you start to hit confidentiality rules as well.

But I know one thing, putting it out there, everywhere that every train late is due to staff sickness, is not helping 'our dear leaders' in their relationship with their workers.
And then you have the issue that folks who have had their travel privileges and parking passes removed are not inclined to come in on their days off, for the extra expense that now occurs. Plus, any extras on top of what they can offer to come in have been refused. So folks are just resting, on their rest days. And with whats going on, folks need that rest, believe me.

It is good to see the majority of the public on the staffs side. Keep strong Southern Colleagues.

 

[Antman]

It is good to see the majority of the public on the staffs side. Keep strong Southern Colleagues.

I think you are making assumptions there.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I think you are making assumptions there.

Looking at the majority of comments on the newspaper sites I think not

 

[Antman]

Looking at the majority of comments on the newspaper sites I think not

Most passengers will be in favour of guards until the next time their train is cancelled because no guard is available, then it will be "why do we need a guard, surely the driver can open and close the doors?". I don't think you'll find much sympathy amongst Southern passengers!

 

[TheEdge]

I think you are making assumptions there.

No, in this case it does seem the public are backing. It looks like equal part people who actually support guards and people who just think Southern/GTR are incompetent.

 

[Darandio]

I don't think you'll find much sympathy amongst Southern passengers!

Funny that, there are various instances in this very thread from people on the ground who are seeing exactly that.

Unless you just want to antagonise those involved?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Go Ahead Management incompetence apparently. Word is coming through that ALL SN conductors have been put on 12 week notice.

 

[Antman]

Funny that, there are various instances in this very thread from people on the ground who are seeing exactly that.

Unless you just want to antagonise those involved?

Having been at East Croydon during the recent industrial action the comments I heard from passengers were anything but supportive.

 

[dgl]

Wouldn't a quick reminder of how bad connex were and how the same person runs GTR would change a few minds

 

[Agent_c]

Go Ahead Management incompetence apparently. Word is coming through that ALL SN conductors have been put on 12 week notice.

Any confirmation? Anyone got the letter?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Having been at East Croydon during the recent industrial action the comments I heard from passengers were anything but supportive.

The average passenger only cares about whether their train turns up or not and probably cares not, or is not remotely interested as to whether it conveys a guard or not. As long as the driver turns up to drive their train home - who cares?

Oh um I forgot... who actually releases the doors for them to board...?

So is this 12 week notice notifying SN guards of "possible" redundancies or a change in job and associated T&C's?

 

[MikeWh]

Wouldn't a quick reminder of how bad connex were and how the same person runs GTR would change a few minds

Didn't realise Olivier Brousse was back in England?

 

[dgl]

Didn't realise Olivier Brousse was back in England?

I was under the understanding that the same person ran both franchises (I didn't mean the person that ran connex itself)

 

[Antman]

The average passenger only cares about whether their train turns up or not and probably cares not, or is not remotely interested as to whether it conveys a guard or not. As long as the driver turns up to drive their train home - who cares?

Oh um I forgot... who actually releases the doors for them to board...?

So is this 12 week notice notifying SN guards of "possible" redundancies or a change in job and associated T&C's?

That is exactly the point I made earlier.

Doesn't the driver release the doors?

 

[PakRail]

This is now posted on the Southern homepage in a further attack on the guards and in the belief that this will win customer support.

Cancellations this week due to conductor sickness

Southern services continue to be affected by a high level of conductor sickness. This is leading to cancellations to Southern services on a number of routes.
We have reviewed the service amendments we made yesterday and have revised our service plans to provide a better overall service.

This shows just how desperate GTR are starting to get. There has been more disruption due to Guards and Drivers working to rule than there was during the whole strike period.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Any confirmation? Anyone got the letter?

No, being from the north it's just rumblings we are hearing at this stage, and we are not liking what we are hearing

 

[HLE]

Go Ahead Management incompetence apparently. Word is coming through that ALL SN conductors have been put on 12 week notice.

All out war then.

To all southern guards. Do not give in.

I hope the RMT have got a plan of action. And aslef - although they are understandably being cautious.

How they miss Bob Crow though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is now posted on the Southern homepage in a further attack on the guards and in the belief that this will win customer support.

Cancellations this week due to conductor sickness

Southern services continue to be affected by a high level of conductor sickness. This is leading to cancellations to Southern services on a number of routes.
We have reviewed the service amendments we made yesterday and have revised our service plans to provide a better overall service.

This shows just how desperate GTR are starting to get. There has been more disruption due to Guards and Drivers working to rule than there was during the whole strike period.

And so it will continue until management realise they cannot just do what they like.

 

[tony6499]

Didn't realise Olivier Brousse was back in England?

Olivier Brousse was ok when he took charge , listened to staff but it was far too late then and the damage had been done by Horton and his cohorts.

Worse thing I ever did was invest in the Connex Share Scheme too.

 

[Rich McLean]

If a role ceases to exist, then staff can either have the option of VR (Voluntary Redundancy) or be placed into a "Redeployment Pool", who then move into other roles offered to them on new Terms and Conditions (ToCs) and often a pay cut.

So if Joe Bloggs the guard was told that he was being moved into an OBS role on new Pay & ToCs, then Mr Bloggs should have the right to take VR.

It seems as if Southern are doing their best to avoid VR payments at all costs, and this is offering Guards the OBS role on the same pay, but changing the ToCs of a contract could amount to a fair legal challenge by the Unions. It may also depend to what is written in existing employment contracts

 

[cjmillsnun]

That is exactly the point I made earlier.

Doesn't the driver release the doors?

No. A the moment the conductor releases and closes the doors.

 

[Secrettraindri]

I think you are making assumptions there.

But you would say that, since just about every post you make is to attempt to wind up the railway staff on here, even when they have made their point legitimately from every possible angle, usually from a position of superior knowledge and understanding.

 

[sarahj]

No. A the moment the conductor releases and closes the doors.

Actually, on Southern the driver releases the doors and we close them, on 377/442/313, tho' we can release them on a 313, and did when they first came out. Think it's different on a 171, but not 100% sure. (I don't work them)

 

[Starmill]

No. A the moment the conductor releases and closes the doors.

On Southern Electrostars? I think you might want to check you're really, really sure about that.

 

[Antman]

But you would say that, since just about every post you make is to attempt to wind up the railway staff on here, even when they have made their point legitimately from every possible angle, usually from a position of superior knowledge and understanding.

I am not trying to wind anybody up I am just expressing an opinion, or would you rather we all had to meekly go with the flow? It would make for a rather boring forum would it not?

Still that's quite impressive for your first post, I look forward to the second one!

 

[313103]

On Southern Electrostars? I think you might want to check you're really, really sure about that.

I do believe that all the electrostars were designed (but dont quote me on that) so the driver opens the doors and the Guard (where one exists) close them. That was certainly the case when i use to work at London Overground.

 

[Secrettraindri]

I am not trying to wind anybody up I am just expressing an opinion, or would you rather we all had to meekly go with the flow? It would make for a rather boring forum would it not?

Still that's quite impressive for your first post, I look forward to the second one!

I quite agree, it would be boring. But there is expressing an opinion and there is putting forward an idea that is then proven using facts to be wrong but continuing to persist with your erroneous suggestion. For example, after being told that sunlight in a dispatch camera cannot be solved by holding a board up by the monitor because the light is shining into the cameras themselves, you might just accept in good grace that you are mistaken. To persist suggests only that you are attempting to annoy.

 

[Antman]

I quite agree, it would be boring. But there is expressing an opinion and there is putting forward an idea that is then proven using facts to be wrong but continuing to persist with your erroneous suggestion. For example, after being told that sunlight in a dispatch camera cannot be solved by holding a board up by the monitor because the light is shining into the cameras themselves, you might just accept in good grace that you are mistaken. To persist suggests only that you are attempting to annoy.

That was mentioned ages ago. I said the problem could possibly be solved in that way depending on location and circumstances, angle of the sun etc.

 

[Agent_c]

That was mentioned ages ago. I said the problem could possibly be solved in that way depending on location and circumstances, angle of the sun etc.

No matter what the angle of the sun is, if the picture is effected by the sun light going into a camera, sticking a board between you and the screen will never work. To think it would is to fail to understand physics.

 

[Antman]

No matter what the angle of the sun is, if the picture is effected by the sun light going into a camera, sticking a board between you and the screen will never work. To think it would is to fail to understand physics.

Well that was discussed a while ago and I can't really see much point in going over it all again but obviously I was suggesting platform staff holding a board between the sun and the screen. For example on a sunny day I might have difficulty seeing my TV screen at home, close the curtains and block out the sun and it's problem solved.