Southern RPIs using smartphones to "touch out" to open ticket barriers?

[tsr]

I was at a Southern station on the Brighton Mainline the other day, and needed to be allowed out of the gateline manually. This was during one of the large, periodic revenue protection blocks/exercises/stings/whatever you want to call them. The RPI who let me out was very polite and quickly asked me to come through when I explained what I was doing. To open the barrier, he touched what appeared to be a Samsung smartphone (it was certainly a phone of some sort) on the ITSO smartcard reader. The barrier then opened without further ado.

This was during the evening peak, so the station was busy, and as I was not staying there, I didn't have a chance to hang around and ask the RPI a few questions at a quieter time with regards to this possible use of his phone. Staff usually just open the manual gate, use a staff "the key" smartcard, or use another method involving a stack of tickets that still work the barriers but are then "swallowed".

So, my questions are:
- In light of the faults and shortage of handheld readers, which are supposedly well-known internally, are Southern staff now being briefed to use phones & apps to deal with smartcards and suitably-equipped ticket barriers?
- Can anyone enlighten me as to whether or not these procedures would use an in-house piece of software, or whether staff are using a publicly-available app to work with ITSO smartcard technology? If this should remain private knowledge, feel free to PM me to let me know.
- Or am I just mistaken, and did the RPI just have his "the key" smartcard stuffed down the back of his phone case?

I am just curious, really. Just for the reassurance of members, I don't own an NFC-enabled smartphone, so there'd be no way I could use any software as a "hack" to fraudulently exit gatelines. I do understand if there is something that can't be revealed in public, though, about the way this might work.

 

[mullin]

Did the RPI perhaps have a case on their phone? I have a soft rubber case on mine and can store my oyster behind it, giving a false impression I'm using my phone to tap in / out.

 

[Tom]

You would be hard pressed to fraudulently exit a gateline using any ITSO product and the security tech is verified by a specialist academic team at Royal Holloway. While the details are readable, any product validation takes place using something called the seal - which is verified by a chip inside each reader. If the seal is not considered valid, then the product is effectively considered void.

 

[tsr]

Did the RPI perhaps have a case on their phone? I have a soft rubber case on mine and can store my oyster behind it, giving a false impression I'm using my phone to tap in / out.

Whatever case he had looked to have been thin and inflexible. It looked like a hard "leather effect" skin. I wouldn't rule out a smartcard slipped in behind, but he was quite obviously using a phone of sorts and did glance at the screen just before touching the reader. It didn't seem to actually do much, but I couldn't read anything in that fraction of a second.

You would be hard pressed to fraudulently exit a gateline using any ITSO product and the security tech is verified by a specialist academic team at Royal Holloway. While the details are readable, any product validation takes place using something called the seal - which is verified by a chip inside each reader. If the seal is not considered valid, then the product is effectively considered void.

I phrased my post with an abundance of caution. That is understood and confirmed what I would have expected. Thanks for the info!

 

[jon0844]

The phone has NFC so I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be the phone itself, rather than needing a separate card in a shell or case.

 

[sarahj]

I will have to ask, next time I see one, but TBH using the staff key is easier.

 

[jon0844]

Maybe they're testing smartphones to allow some users (season ticket holders?) to use their phone?

 

[185]

Upon arrival of my Air New Zealand flight into Heathrow two years ago, I went to the barriers downstairs, turned around and rubbed the pocket of my backpack against the Oyster readers.

Several bemused backpackers behind me were trying the same thing, unsurprisingly to no avail.

Oh dear :P

 

[34D]

Would expect that he has a suitable 'product' loaded onto his smartphone. This is the future!

 

[Nym]

Until someone hacks it if course...

 

[sarahj]

Its amazing, esp at Gatwick, the many times I've seen passengers rub their ticket on the barrier readers :roll:

 

[trentside]

I'd imagine it's easier to keep his Key card in his phone case - certainly makes it easier to find in your pocket.

When I was in Greece recently, I was amazed to see Minoan Lines bus conductors using LG Smartphones to issue tickets to passengers, connected (wirelessly) to a thermal printer on their belt. Seemed a very efficient system, and possibly something the railway should be considering making use of (saves carrying both an Avantix and Blackberry!).

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi there,
I don't personally know enough about the area to make a definitive comment but technically it is quite possible to use a NFC device on an ITSO reader and system.

ITSO have published a paper on this titled: "Introduction to using NFC Phones in the ITSO Environment".
You can see a copy of it here: pdf link

One issue I have come across is that if there are too many wireless cards in close proximity, or one card up against a NFC device, then often they get confused and won't read.
I wonder what was going on?

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Tetchytyke]

Would expect that he has a suitable 'product' loaded onto his smartphone. This is the future!

Pah, it's the past and the present in Hong Kong, where you can Octopus loaded on everything from a card to a phone to a watch.

 

[tsr]

Hi there,
I don't personally know enough about the area to make a definitive comment but technically it is quite possible to use a NFC device on an ITSO reader and system.

ITSO have published a paper on this titled: "Introduction to using NFC Phones in the ITSO Environment".
You can see a copy of it here: pdf link

One issue I have come across is that if there are too many wireless cards in close proximity, or one card up against a NFC device, then often they get confused and won't read.
I wonder what was going on?

Cheers,
Jason

From a technical point of view, you sum up my thoughts so far very well.

My first two posts on this thread were written when I was quite tired, so I should really have added those details of what I suspected might and might not work.

This is another reason why I doubt the smartphone and card were stored together (just as you wouldn't store your Oyster and key cards together!).

 

[sheff1]

Its amazing, esp at Gatwick, the many times I've seen passengers rub their ticket on the barrier readers :roll:

But if that is what they are used to in their home location .....

I have seen British people try and insert their ticket into a non existent slot at airport stations abroad. Should I be rolling my eyes - no, I explain what to do and am thanked for my trouble.

 

[Tom]

One issue I have come across is that if there are too many wireless cards in close proximity, or one card up against a NFC device, then often they get confused and won't read.
I wonder what was going on?

In really simple terms:

This is due to a mechanism called anti-tear being in place. The readers tend to make an assumption that only one 'thing' will be presented at a time. If you present multiple at a time, then it will likely result in interference between those 'things'. Therefore, if it reads one and then suddenly reads another, the anti-tear mechanism kicks in.

Anti-tear basically prevents a product on a card being damaged if it is being read/written and is then pulled out of the field.

 

[sarahj]

But if that is what they are used to in their home location .....

I have seen British people try and insert their ticket into a non existent slot at airport stations abroad. Should I be rolling my eyes - no, I explain what to do and am thanked for my trouble.

What, you think I just stand there and watch them fail. Of course I show them what to do.