Southern start rolling out free Wi-Fi on its trains

[Class455]

377 150 and 377 108 now have WiFi. Think after the 377’s have all been done they’ll fit the 455’s. Since the government has committed to fitting WiFi on all trains, I wouldn’t see anything stopping the 455’s from being fitted especially since they are going to be sticking around for 6 years at least.

Where is the “router” located when the trains receive their WiFi?

 

[jon0844]

Granted not on Southern, but on GWR there has been more than one occasion where I didn't have 3G or 4G signal but the onboard WiFi was working. When I have had 3G or 4G, then I've had the same experience as you where my mobile connection is faster. But sometimes the network you are on doesn't have signal (or it drops to 2G or Edge).

I have said for years that it's better to use your own data connection, but not everyone has a lot of data or the ability to tether if wanting to connect a tablet/laptop etc.

A good Wi-Fi service that has an external antenna and a fallback connection to a second network (or potentially even more than two networks), including access to all bands in use (some 4G phones people use don't offer access to every frequency, which can limit coverage) and the fastest modem (again, many phones may not be equipped with multiple antennas and the latest encoding), is increasingly becoming workable.

Back in 2006 I had a meeting at Hertford House with the MD of FCC (Elaine Holt) to say that I didn't think Wi-Fi on trains was a good move, and we'd all be better off using our phone data. I could have been partly responsible for it not becoming something that was rolled out quickly as a result!

Well, in 2017, Wi-Fi has improved with 5GHz access points having less congestion and Icomera and others offering very good data management.

As such, I've been very impressed with it on GN trains, and VTEC, and would now feel much more comfortable using Wi-Fi than before. Of course, the improvements in 4G coverage has played a huge part here, and coverage and capacity is improving all the time.

However, I enjoy using Wi-Fi when it's free. I am not sure I'd pay money for it, as then it makes more sense to use my own data even if I could find my phone losing connection before the roof-mounted, external, antenna does.

 

[tsr]

377 150 and 377 108 now have WiFi. Think after the 377’s have all been done they’ll fit the 455’s. Since the government has committed to fitting WiFi on all trains, I wouldn’t see anything stopping the 455’s from being fitted especially since they are going to be sticking around for 6 years at least.

Where is the “router” located when the trains receive their WiFi?

Wifi circuit breakers are normally in one of the body end cupboards, where the other MCBs for the coach are. I seem to remember this is where the new routers/switches will also be placed, but haven't got a 377 handy to check...

A number of years ago, under "old" Southern, and on older 377s, the placement of the trial wifi routers was usually in one of the (never formally used) catering supply lockers found at one end of many coaches. Some units, particularly a few /3 series units, still have some of the equipment remaining. I should imagine this will be stripped out before the new stuff is installed, but you never know.

On the ex-Scotrail Turbostars, wifi routers were also in the body end cupboards, but have since been deactivated or removed. When they were moved to Southern, despite extensive refits and refurbishment, several passengers managed to successfully connect to them. No more, however!

Wifi circuit breakers were fitted as standard on a few of the newer 377s (and I think 387s), and are still there on the aforementioned Turbostars.

As for 455s, there are all manner of hidden cubby holes where routers could be placed, but I'm not sure which ones will be used!

 

[HH]

DfT are still very keen on WiFi and despite the demise of "Project Quicksilver" are still trying to make a positive business case for spending hundreds of million pounds getting it. The trouble is that even with wildly optimistic benefits, most franchises are unlikely to pay back within the lifetime of current technology.

That doesn't mean it won't happen, of course. If some minister promises it, it will happen...

 

[Starmill]

I have said for years that it's better to use your own data connection, but not everyone has a lot of data or the ability to tether if wanting to connect a tablet/laptop etc.

A good Wi-Fi service that has an external antenna and a fallback connection to a second network (or potentially even more than two networks), including access to all bands in use (some 4G phones people use don't offer access to every frequency, which can limit coverage) and the fastest modem (again, many phones may not be equipped with multiple antennas and the latest encoding), is increasingly becoming workable.

Apparently ScotRail's wifi is served from the stations as well as their 4G (maybe 3G on older installations). Of course this requires them to actually have their own wifi in stations, but they do at quite a number. It also means that the customer can connect to wifi while at the station and doesn't have to connect again when the board the train which is what happens at (for example) London Euston and I find very annoying. Obviously it also means if you were connected to the train's wifi and you alight at a station equipped with wifi you will not have any breaks in connection. While you might argue that the train is only going to be in range of the station for a very short time, the station wifi could easily be better than the 4G in the area, so it seems like a small but worthwhile addition to me that nobody apart from ScotRail seem to have gone for. It also seems to remove the issue where several trains are in adjacent platforms and you don't know which one to connect to.

Chiltern also have a deal with EE to provide data service to their trains inside some of the tunnels on their route. So unless you are on EE you presumably have no signal inside the tunnels, but the train's wifi still works.

 

[HowardGWR]

Travelling on 377s, I have yet to see a notice saying there is wifi. On trying to see what's available, I have always drawn a blank.

Is it still being 'rolled out' and does SN put up a notice when it is present?

 

[paddington]

Used it a couple of times on SN and it works fine.

Also find Scotrail wifi to be excellent - in fact I don't really know why but connectivity in Scotland is often better than in London. I can't remember where exactly but I'm pretty sure that I got a good wifi signal when the train was passing by Altnabreac, and when I missed a train at Georgemas Junction my phone was able to its network and keep me entertained until the train returned... (I use 3 for data).

GWR wifi doesn't seem to work very well, and I'm not talking about HSTs (although it isn't great on those either), IME on about 1 out of 3 of the newer DMUs where wifi is supposedly available, it just doesn't work.

 

[tsr]

Travelling on 377s, I have yet to see a notice saying there is wifi. On trying to see what's available, I have always drawn a blank.

Is it still being 'rolled out' and does SN put up a notice when it is present?

Yes, there will be wifi stickers on the doors of trains where it's available. It's mainly the newer 377/6s and /7s at present, though some older units also have it.

GWR wifi doesn't seem to work very well, and I'm not talking about HSTs (although it isn't great on those either), IME on about 1 out of 3 of the newer DMUs where wifi is supposedly available, it just doesn't work.

I now turn off my phone's wifi connection whenever I'm on a GWR service, and just use 4G. I have travelled on most of their routes in the last couple of years, bar some of the Cornish bits, and EE and Giffgaff have both been OK in all but the most rural and lightly populated areas. As these are often quite scenic, I'll happily look out of the window for those bits!

 

[jon0844]

I have to assume GTR is using EE as it's primary (or even only?) connection. On a train to Brighton now and it was working fine, except at Gatwick where my phone also struggled on EE (presumably a site down for maintenance or something as the airport is usually well covered*).

Once we moved south of the runway my phone was back to 50Mbps+ and service resumed on my son's tablet.

* It's possible EE has small cells within the terminal buildings to cope with demand, leaving the railway line struggling.

 

[CC 72100]

As such, I've been very impressed with it on GN trains, and VTEC, and would now feel much more comfortable using Wi-Fi than before. Of course, the improvements in 4G coverage has played a huge part here, and coverage and capacity is improving all the time.

However, I enjoy using Wi-Fi when it's free. I am not sure I'd pay money for it, as then it makes more sense to use my own data even if I could find my phone losing connection before the roof-mounted, external, antenna does.

Have you used TPE's wifi yet? - I was very impressed when it had just come out on the 350s, even having perfect coverage up Shap summit etc.

 

[infobleep]

I have yet to find a situation where the onboard wifi has provided a faster browsing experience that my phones native 3G/4G.

Alas I'm on O2. Now I could do something about that and switch to a other provider but I like some of their customer service and the O2 Priority at concerts.

 

[infobleep]

I have said for years that it's better to use your own data connection, but not everyone has a lot of data or the ability to tether if wanting to connect a tablet/laptop etc.

A good Wi-Fi service that has an external antenna and a fallback connection to a second network (or potentially even more than two networks), including access to all bands in use (some 4G phones people use don't offer access to every frequency, which can limit coverage) and the fastest modem (again, many phones may not be equipped with multiple antennas and the latest encoding), is increasingly becoming workable.

Back in 2006 I had a meeting at Hertford House with the MD of FCC (Elaine Holt) to say that I didn't think Wi-Fi on trains was a good move, and we'd all be better off using our phone data. I could have been partly responsible for it not becoming something that was rolled out quickly as a result!

Well, in 2017, Wi-Fi has improved with 5GHz access points having less congestion and Icomera and others offering very good data management.

As such, I've been very impressed with it on GN trains, and VTEC, and would now feel much more comfortable using Wi-Fi than before. Of course, the improvements in 4G coverage has played a huge part here, and coverage and capacity is improving all the time.

However, I enjoy using Wi-Fi when it's free. I am not sure I'd pay money for it, as then it makes more sense to use my own data even if I could find my phone losing connection before the roof-mounted, external, antenna does.

The last time I paid for data, back in 2016, I had to get a refund as the service was so poor. Cross Country trains. It was worse than the free services I use with other train operating companies. Although there are times when those don't work. However they are free.

 

[jon0844]

Have you used TPE's wifi yet? - I was very impressed when it had just come out on the 350s, even having perfect coverage up Shap summit etc.

If it's a modern Icomera setup, I'd expect a good service. WiFi provision has really come on and I believe VTWC upgraded its equipment not so long ago, and if I tried it again it would be a lot better than a couple of years ago.

When EE's 800MHz 4G rolls out further in the countryside, it's only going to get better, as well as Vodafone and O2 refarming 900MHz 3G to 4G.