Southern ticket machines being misleading.

[grove]

This may need a new thread, but it is related. Southern TVMs are really not up to the job. Twice I have tried to use them on walk-up as ticket offices have been closed (unavoidable reasons etc... another subject). I wanted to purchase a ticket with a Railcard which they simply do not issue. A lady in front of me had exactly the same problem and purchased a full-price ticket. I had the option of a mobile phone purchase.

I have subsequently raised this as a complaint with Southern. What should someone do
1. travel without a ticket
2. somehow try and get a refund later?

I received this response:

"... please email us with screenshots of the ticket and your railcard. We will then be able to assist you with a refund for the difference in price."

That's just not going to happen, particularly for the lady in front of me, and I suspect Southern knows that.

Who sets up the ticket operating policies and who are they answerable to?

 

[Alex365Dash]

Twice I have tried to use them on walk-up as ticket offices have been closed (unavoidable reasons etc... another subject). I wanted to purchase a ticket with a Railcard which they simply do not issue.

Which Railcard are you trying to apply?

I travel on GTR semi-regularly from a Southern-managed station and my 16-25 Railcard applies just fine on the ticket machines - after you select a ticket but before pressing Pay there’s an option to add a railcard onto the ticket.

 

[grove]

Senior, but there are no options for any Railcards. Southern have said they are not available at some stations. I had tried Brighton and Worthing previously.

 

[alistairlees]

Senior, but there are no options for any Railcards. Southern have said they are not available at some stations. I had tried Brighton and Worthing previously.

I really don't believe that Southern TVMs don't have Railcard options on them. It might be that they are not obvious though.

 

[Hadders]

What time of day is the journey?

I suspect the issue is trying to purchase a ticket just before the time of day the railcard becomes valid.

 

[grove]

I really don't believe that Southern TVMs don't have Railcard options on them. It might be that they are not obvious though.

Not even obvious to their own staff.

What time of day is the journey?

I suspect the issue is trying to purchase a ticket just before the time of day the railcard becomes valid.

11.30 am, well past the valid start time.

 

[Bishopstone]

I’ve bought railcard-discounted tickets from the machines at Brighton on many occasions (and Seaford, Bishopstone, Lewes etc). I guess a temporary IT glitch can’t be ruled out, but the option is reliably there, after you’ve selected your ticket and before you pay.

 

[paul1609]

I can't think of any way that it differs in flexibility from a London Thameslink ticket. In fact, it's a mystery why both options should exist.

I believe it is an internal rail industry historical wrangle. Brighton to St Pancras is "any permitted" which includes validity via Clapham Junction Waterloo/East and London Bridge so SWR and SE get a very small percentage of what's a massive fare pot. London Thameslink is " Thameslink Only" or "not underground" which goes entirely to GTR. It was made more complicated by HS1 because a lot of the East Sussex GTR stations got plus HS1 fares where St Pancras was a London Terminal!

 

[grove]

I’ve bought railcard-discounted tickets from the machines at Brighton on many occasions (and Seaford, Bishopstone, Lewes etc). I guess a temporary IT glitch can’t be ruled out, but the option is reliably there, after you’ve selected your ticket and before you pay.

Thank you, I'll see what happens next time. I certainly got the impression from station staff it had been disabled at the time.

 

[Haywain]

I believe it is an internal rail industry historical wrangle. Brighton to St Pancras is "any permitted" which includes validity via Clapham Junction Waterloo/East and London Bridge so SWR and SE get a very small percentage of what's a massive fare pot. London Thameslink is " Thameslink Only" or "not underground" which goes entirely to GTR. It was made more complicated by HS1 because a lot of the East Sussex GTR stations got plus HS1 fares where St Pancras was a London Terminal!

Whether the destination (from Brighton, for example) is London Thameslink or London St Pancras the routeing of tge tickets is 'not underground', so I am unconvinced that there is any variation in where the tickets can be used or which TOC gets a share of the revenue.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I believe it is an internal rail industry historical wrangle. Brighton to St Pancras is "any permitted" which includes validity via Clapham Junction Waterloo/East and London Bridge so SWR and SE get a very small percentage of what's a massive fare pot. London Thameslink is " Thameslink Only" or "not underground" which goes entirely to GTR. It was made more complicated by HS1 because a lot of the East Sussex GTR stations got plus HS1 fares where St Pancras was a London Terminal!

I thnnk this is not the distinction.

There are two "Thameslink" Brighton-London tickets. One is [allegedly, but let's not go there for the purpose of this thread] to London Terminals using only Thameslink trains, but of course that restriction in effect limits the route to, and destination in, London; the other is to Thameslink as a destination (and I've had this printed at different times as either "Thameslink" or "St Pancras" as the end-point [it makes no difference], but always "Not Underground"). The latter type of "Thameslink" ticket allows travel to and from all the stations between London Bridge (and Elephant) and St P. Both types of "Thameslink" ticket are (by the same amount) significantly cheaper than "any route any terminal" ones, especially so at times when there's a Super Off-Peak option. The second of them, in practice, has the same routing restrictions at the London end as the first type[*], but allows a wider choice of services (and of varied routes such as via Hove or Lewes) further south of London, as well as allowing travel further north at the London end.

*I'm aware that the second type (St P - or "Thameslink" - as origin/destination) used to allow travel via Clapham Junction - Waterloo - Waterloo East - London Bridge [and very useful I found it too], and hence had this advantage as well. But I understand that this was recently explicitly disallowed by a "negative easement" in the relevant routing rules. However, as has been discussed here before, there are tickets between Brighton and stations north of London which, for little more (and still less than the any-terminal-any-route "regular" London-Brighton tickets) allow the best of all worlds, with complete flexibility and no restrictions on route or operator/brand.