[Speculative] Ideas for First Glasgow service changes

[homsey52]

Mod note: Posts #1 to #16 were originally in this thread:

First Greater Glasgow

A dedicated thread for discussions solely on First Glasgow No1 and 2, routes, fleet, news and developments.

www.railforums.co.uk

I have the following suggestions for changes to First Glasgow services:

Service 1: Helensburgh - Parkhead
via Balloch, Clydebank, Drumchapel, Crow road,
replace service 2 from Partick to Parkhead

Service 2: Robroyston - Rutherglen to replace service 8 to Parkhead, replace service 90
from Parkhead to Rutherglen King Street

Service 3 Govan - Balornock via Shawlands, Church Street, Byres Road, Bilsland Drive
replace m3 to Syriam Street

Service 4: Eaglesham - Glasgow Fort via Newton Mearns replace service 38

Service 5: Carmunnock - Milton via Trongate, High street, Springburn Colston

Service 6 Calderwood - Drumchapel
replace service 6a to Drumchapel

Service 7 Summerston - Cambuslang
via ashgill road, colston, springburn expressway
city centre replace 263 to cambuslang

service 8 Govan - robroyston
via partick, Renfrew street, cathedral st
replace 57a to balornock east then standburn rd
robroyston rd

service 9 bishopbriggs retail - paisley
replace 89b to city centre then normal route

service 10 cathedral street - silverburn
via normal route

service 11 clydebank - partick bus station
via gartnavel hosp,replace service 8 via
byres road

service 12 milton circular
via ashgill rd, balmore rd, saracen, keppochill rd,
springburn, broomfeild rd, wallacewell rd,
northgate rd, auchinairn rd, colston

service 13 bargeddie - city centre
via alexendra parade, cathedral st, west george st

service 14 cathkin - glasgow cross
via fernhill,rutherglen main st, replace service 18
to glasgow cross

service 15 rutherglen - east kilbride greenhills
via king street then replace service 18

service 16 faifley - govan
via Clydebank, Drumchapel, gt western road,
Clyde tunnel

service 17 Govan bus station - paisley
via renfrew

service 18 glasgow cross - springburn
via charing cross, maryhill, ruchill, hawthorn street
springburn expressway

service 19 chryston - city centre
via royston road, roystonhill, buchanan bus station

service 20 stobhill hospital - eastwood toll
via balornock rd, broomknowes rd, edgefauld rd
petershill rd, springburn road, city centre, eglinton toll

service 21 east Kilbride bus station - Buchanan bus station
via normal route, then george square, west nile st

service 22 toryglen asda - cambuslang cairns
via rutherglen

service 23 high possil - city centre
via saracen street,westercommon,firhill,maryhill rd,
st Georges cross, charing cross, Renfrew st,
Buchanan bus station

service 24 silverburn - rutherglen
via thornliebank,pollockshaws,shawlands,
battlefeild,toryglen

service 25 Milngavie - Buchanan bus station
via garscube road

service 26 overtown - buchanan bus station
via replace service 240 then duke street, john knox street
wishart st, Alexandra parade, cathedral st

service 27 Torrance - city centre
via mavis valley, keppochill road, garscube rd
Buchanan bus station

service 28 Harestanes - city centre
via westerhill road, Woodhill road, Northgate rd
walllacewell rd, ryehill rd, red road, cathedral street
Buchanan bus street

service 29 Kilsyth - city centre
via service 89 route, castle street, cathedral st,
Buchanan bus station

service 30 Parkhead - knightswood cross
via todd st, riddrie, provanmill, robroyston, ryehill rd,
wallacewell rd, stobhill, springburn, hawthorn st,
ruchill, hyndland, anniesland

service 31 balornock - govan bus station
via red road, petershill rd, castle st, cathedral st
paisley road west, Copland rd, Summertown rd,
broomloan rd, govan rd

service 32 barmulloch - eglinton toll
via Royston rd, castle st, cathedral st,
pollockshaws road

service 33 glasgow fort - west regent street
via gathlamlock, ruchazie, roystonhill,Townhead

service 34 castlemilk - buchanan bus station
via que hospital, squinty bridge, broomielaw,
hope street

service 35 balornock east - buchanan bus station
via wallacewell road, balornock, petershill road
springburn tesco, baird street

service 36 cumbernauld town centre - charing cross
via muirhead, steps, millerston, provanmill.
cathedral street, bath street

service 37 govan circular
via Renfrew road, que hospital, shieldhall road,
berryknowes road, paisley road west, mosspark dr
corkerhill rd, braidcraft rd, peat rd, silverburn, nitshill rd,
wiltonburn rd, willowford rd, parkhouse rd, nitshill rd,
darnley, kennishead rd, boydstone rd, barrhead rd,
pollockshaws rd, shawlands, eglinton st, kingston st, paisley rd, paisley rd west,
edmiston dr, copland rd, summertown rd, broomloan rd, orkney st,
govan bus station

service 38 newton mearns - easterhouse
via barrhead rd, greenfarm rd, crookfur rd, capelrig rd,
harvie ave, crookfur rd,ayr rd, rouken glen rd,
rowallan rd, robslee rd, orchard park ave, orchard drv,
fenwick rd, burnfield rd, mansewood rd, alder rd, tinto rd,
kilmarnock rd, shawlands, city centre, riddrie, garthamlock
glasgow fort

service 39 johnstone centre - buchanan bus station
via paisley, penilee, paisley rd west, hope st

service 40 Kilbarchan - Buchanan bus station
via Johnstone centre, paisley, Renfrew, Braehead,
Clyde tunnel, Partick, charing cross

service 41 city centre -baillieston
via duke st, carntyne, Edinburgh rd, wellhouse rd,
bartiebeth rd, westerhouse rd, lochend rd,
lochdochart rd, easterhouse rd, Edinburgh rd,
sindon rd, Buchanan st, main st

service 42 moodiesburn - Kirkintilloch
via chryston rd, lindsaybeg rd, initiative rd,
Lenzie railway station, heath av, myrtle av,
broom gardens, cypress court, civic way,
west high st, kelvin court

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

I have the following suggestions for changes to First Glasgow services:

Service 1: Helensburgh - Parkhead
via Balloch, Clydebank, Drumchapel, Crow road,
replace service 2 from Partick to Parkhead

Service 2: Robroyston - Rutherglen to replace service 8 to Parkhead, replace service 90
from Parkhead to Rutherglen King Street

Service 3 Govan - Balornock via Shawlands, Church Street, Byres Road, Bilsland Drive
replace m3 to Syriam Street

Service 4: Eaglesham - Glasgow Fort via Newton Mearns replace service 38

Service 5: Carmunnock - Milton via Trongate, High street, Springburn Colston

Service 6 Calderwood - Drumchapel
replace service 6a to Drumchapel

more to follow

8 and 90 are both hospital services and are actually pretty busy most of the day so are both safe.
Running from Helensburgh to Parkhead will be a nightmare with traffic delays and other issues.
M3 is a funded service with Scottish Hydro I'm sure, so again it's probably safe.
38 is a flagship service and again is safe from changes its extremely busy all day and what about its variations?

 

[PaulMc7]

I have the following suggestions for changes to First Glasgow services:

Service 1: Helensburgh - Parkhead
via Balloch, Clydebank, Drumchapel, Crow road,
replace service 2 from Partick to Parkhead

Service 2: Robroyston - Rutherglen to replace service 8 to Parkhead, replace service 90
from Parkhead to Rutherglen King Street

Service 3 Govan - Balornock via Shawlands, Church Street, Byres Road, Bilsland Drive
replace m3 to Syriam Street

Service 4: Eaglesham - Glasgow Fort via Newton Mearns replace service 38

Service 5: Carmunnock - Milton via Trongate, High street, Springburn Colston

Service 6 Calderwood - Drumchapel
replace service 6a to Drumchapel

more to follow

As much as I think another Simplicity style wave of changes with planned out frequency changes would be smart to get around the driver shortages I'd love to know the reasoning for these changes.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Running the 2 from Helensburgh to Parkhead is a heck of a long route! What happens after Parkhead? Is there a bus that runs from Parkhead to Baillieston?

 

[PaulMc7]

Running the 2 from Helensburgh to Parkhead is a heck of a long route! What happens after Parkhead? Is there a bus that runs from Parkhead to Baillieston?

I was thinking that myself. It would be close to a 3 hour route surely. The 1B in its current form when it gets stuck in any traffic could easily be 2 hours with a very direct route compared to a lot of services.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

8 and 90 are both hospital services and are actually pretty busy most of the day so are both safe.
Running from Helensburgh to Parkhead will be a nightmare with traffic delays and other issues.
M3 is a funded service with Scottish Hydro I'm sure, so again it's probably safe.
38 is a flagship service and again is safe from changes its extremely busy all day and what about its variations?

It's Scottish Power that fund the M3. Not Scottish Hydro (SSE).

 

[route101]

I have the following suggestions for changes to First Glasgow services:

Service 1: Helensburgh - Parkhead
via Balloch, Clydebank, Drumchapel, Crow road,
replace service 2 from Partick to Parkhead

Service 2: Robroyston - Rutherglen to replace service 8 to Parkhead, replace service 90
from Parkhead to Rutherglen King Street

Service 3 Govan - Balornock via Shawlands, Church Street, Byres Road, Bilsland Drive
replace m3 to Syriam Street

Service 4: Eaglesham - Glasgow Fort via Newton Mearns replace service 38

Service 5: Carmunnock - Milton via Trongate, High street, Springburn Colston

Service 6 Calderwood - Drumchapel
replace service 6a to Drumchapel

more to follow

Your service 5 is the old 31 route. Why would the 1 need to run to Parkhead?

 

[homsey52]

Your service 5 is the old 31 route. Why would the 1 need to run to Parkhead?

To replace service 2 from Partick to Parkhead.

 

[GALLANTON]

To replace service 2 from Partick to Parkhead.

Why? What's wrong with the current 2 services? You've stated all these random out-of-the-blue changes but given no reason why they should happen.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

My proposed changes to the FIG network

1s am not sure how to fix this
2 alternate extended to Airdrie
3 no change or possible extension to queh (would mean no change to 49)
4 restored to knightswood
X4 scrapped
5 no change
6/A no change
7 no change
8 no change
X8 All to be Pollok circular
9 extended to partick
9A no change
10 extended to serve cowcaddens , garscube rd , firhill
11 / 12 combined current services 64 65 in to a loop
16 no change
18 extended to bus station
19 no change
21 extended to bus station
29A extended to woodfarm
31 no change
31A scrapped
33 easterhouse , fort , craigend , cranhill , greenfield , parkhead shettleston, barlanark , easterhouse
34 to serve both QUEH and govan bus station
36 city center Cumberland
38/A no change
38 b/c/e scrapped
41 no change
42 bargeddie , baliston , barlanark ,carntyne , Alexander prade city center
43 scraped
44 east end local easterhouse Terminus easterhouse shopping center , the fort , cartyne sq
46 curtailed carntyne sq to castlemilk with extra recovery time
49 extended to QUEH to provide bus link for Pollok to hospital
51 Easterhouse terminus , fort , wellhouse , queenslie (b4 9am and between 4 and 6 pm ) Edinburgh rd steps rd (at all other times), cranhill , Alexander prade ,city center , m74 , silverburn
51X easterhouse terminus , fort , M8
City center , M74 , silverburn
52 castlemilk , Clarkson , giffnock , carnwadric , Arden , darnley , silverburn
53 scotston , whiteinch , partick , byres rd , maryhill , kelvindale, Templeton , annisland
56 no change
60 no change
60A city center to milingavie via maryhill and wyndford
61 no change
62 annisland Morrison , GWR , Queen Margaret drive , maryhill rd , summerston asda
71A no change
74 no change
75 no change
81 no change
87 no change
88 no change
89/90 circle service restored
91 breahead govan partick byres rd great Western rd M8 riddre gathamlock craigend easterhouse

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

It's Scottish Power that fund the M3. Not Scottish Hydro (SSE).

Thank you. I knew it was a power company, but I just couldnt think who it was.

 

[homsey52]

As much as I think another Simplicity style wave of changes with planned out frequency changes would be smart to get around the driver shortages I'd love to know the reasoning for these changes.

they do big major changes about every 5 to 10 years.it would give passengers more choice.havent had any major changes for a while

Your service 5 is the old 31 route. Why would the 1 need to run to Parkhead?

it isnt it would come from carmunnock then follow service 5 to city centre going into castlemilk

8 and 90 are both hospital services and are actually pretty busy most of the day so are both safe.
Running from Helensburgh to Parkhead will be a nightmare with traffic delays and other issues.
M3 is a funded service with Scottish Hydro I'm sure, so again it's probably safe.
38 is a flagship service and again is safe from changes its extremely busy all day and what about its variations?

the 2 used to go from faifley to airdrie

 

[adrock1976]

My proposed changes to the FIG network

1s am not sure how to fix this
2 alternate extended to Airdrie
3 no change or possible extension to queh (would mean no change to 49)
4 restored to knightswood
X4 scrapped
5 no change
6/A no change
7 no change
8 no change
X8 All to be Pollok circular
9 extended to partick
9A no change
10 extended to serve cowcaddens , garscube rd , firhill
11 / 12 combined current services 64 65 in to a loop
16 no change
18 extended to bus station
19 no change
21 extended to bus station
29A extended to woodfarm
31 no change
31A scrapped
33 easterhouse , fort , craigend , cranhill , greenfield , parkhead shettleston, barlanark , easterhouse
34 to serve both QUEH and govan bus station
36 city center Cumberland
38/A no change
38 b/c/e scrapped
41 no change
42 bargeddie , baliston , barlanark ,carntyne , Alexander prade city center
43 scraped
44 east end local easterhouse Terminus easterhouse shopping center , the fort , cartyne sq
46 curtailed carntyne sq to castlemilk with extra recovery time
49 extended to QUEH to provide bus link for Pollok to hospital
51 Easterhouse terminus , fort , wellhouse , queenslie (b4 9am and between 4 and 6 pm ) Edinburgh rd steps rd (at all other times), cranhill , Alexander prade ,city center , m74 , silverburn
51X easterhouse terminus , fort , M8
City center , M74 , silverburn
52 castlemilk , Clarkson , giffnock , carnwadric , Arden , darnley , silverburn
53 scotston , whiteinch , partick , byres rd , maryhill , kelvindale, Templeton , annisland
56 no change
60 no change
60A city center to milingavie via maryhill and wyndford
61 no change
62 annisland Morrison , GWR , Queen Margaret drive , maryhill rd , summerston asda
71A no change
74 no change
75 no change
81 no change
87 no change
88 no change
89/90 circle service restored
91 breahead govan partick byres rd great Western rd M8 riddre gathamlock craigend easterhouse

There is already an 89 that runs Glasgow - Kilsyth via Springburn Road, Bishopbriggs Cross, and Kirkintilloch.

Do you intend for these to transfer back to the East Division at Larbert as the 24/27?

The SPT evening journeys on the circle service are numbered 189/190.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the post one or two pages ago of how to tweak services, I have thought of the following:

1 - The Helensburgh arm renumbered back to 216* and revised to run Helensburgh - Clydebank via A814, Old Kilpatrick, Dalmuir Station, Second Avenue, and Kilbowie Road.

2 - Renumbered back to 62

3- Broken up to run Drumchapel - Pollok/Silverburn Centre and renumbered 63. Silverburn - Govan Cross section to run as the 48 (there is or was a 49 with a slightly different route that used to run to Nitshill)

4 - Renumbered back to 44 (there is already a 4 that serves Mearns Cross via Kilmarnock Road run by Ayr Stagecoach) and 44A, and reverted back to run to Knightswood/Westerton Station as previously.

5 - Renumbered to 45, and maybe extended to Clydebank/Mountblow via Great Western Road, Kingsway, and Dumbarton Road.

6 - Broken into two sections Calderwood - Cowcaddens Underground (or Anniesland Cross) with this section renumbered 46, and Mountblow/Clydebank - Bridge Street Underground or Clarkson Toll numbered 47 if 45 above not extended beyond city centre.

38 and all letter variants - Revised to run Eastwood Toll or Woodfarm - Easterhouse with the lettered variants other than A or C to be scrapped. The 36 that used to run Bus Station - Cumbernauld Station via the A80 Cumbernauld Road to be reinstated.

37 - Bargeddie or Baillieston Station - Anniesland Cross via Edinburgh Road, Royal Infirmary, Queen Street Station, Charing Cross Station, Kelvingrove Park, Partick, and Crow Road

39 - Barlanark - Clydebank via Lightburn Hospital, Carntyne Square, Warriston Street, Royal Infirmary, Queen Street Station, Charing Cross Station, Kelvingrove Park, Partick, Crow Road, Anniesland Cross, Alderman Road, Garscadden, Great Western Road, Kilbowie Road, Clydebank.

41 - Reverted back to running Easterhouse - Drumchapel via Great Western Road taking over one of the lettered variants of the 1 or 6 (unsure which - city - Drumchapel via GW Road was the 20)

58 - Crookfur - The Milton via Mearns Cross, Woodfarm, Thornliebank Station, Pollokshaws Road, Eglinton Toll, Devon Street, Pollokshaws Road, Albert Bridge, Glasgow Cross, High Street, Royal Infirmary, Springburn Road, Springburn Centre, Colston Road, and Ashgill Road to The Milton. This would take over one of the variants of the 38 between Crookfur and Eglinton Toll/back of Bridge Street Underground with a slightly revised route to the Royal Infirmary, restoring a bus service along High Street which it has not had since the old 37 that ran Castlemilk - The Milton was took off and the 31 extended via a dogleg route that went via Trongate, Stockwell Street, Briggait, and Albert Bridge, which eventually got curtailed back to St Enoch - East Kilbride.

Also, to avoid confusion, I would renumber the McGills 38 Glasgow - Johnstone to the 138, as it shares the First Glasgow 38 between the top of the town and Bridge Street Underground.

I'll leave these suggestions here so as to avoid making this a lengthier post than it already is.

*PS Someone who I worked with a long time ago who was originally from Dumbarton had pulled my leg slightly with the wisecrack that the Birmingham band Musical Youth"s Number One hit from 1982 Pass the Dutch was apparently inspired when they had a ride on the 216 Dumbarton - Helensburgh bus, as it passed through Dunhill on the left hand side. It was not the 1st April I would like to add.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Regarding the post one or two pages ago of how to tweak services, I have thought of the following:

1 - The Helensburgh arm renumbered back to 216* and revised to run Helensburgh - Clydebank via A814, Old Kilpatrick, Dalmuir Station, Second Avenue, and Kilbowie Road.

2 - Renumbered back to 62

3- Broken up to run Drumchapel - Pollok/Silverburn Centre and renumbered 63. Silverburn - Govan Cross section to run as the 48 (there is or was a 49 with a slightly different route that used to run to Nitshill)

4 - Renumbered back to 44 (there is already a 4 that serves Mearns Cross via Kilmarnock Road run by Ayr Stagecoach) and 44A, and reverted back to run to Knightswood/Westerton Station as previously.

5 - Renumbered to 45, and maybe extended to Clydebank/Mountblow via Great Western Road, Kingsway, and Dumbarton Road.

6 - Broken into two sections Calderwood - Cowcaddens Underground (or Anniesland Cross) with this section renumbered 46, and Mountblow/Clydebank - Bridge Street Underground or Clarkson Toll numbered 47 if 45 above not extended beyond city centre.

38 and all letter variants - Revised to run Eastwood Toll or Woodfarm - Easterhouse with the lettered variants other than A or C to be scrapped. The 36 that used to run Bus Station - Cumbernauld Station via the A80 Cumbernauld Road to be reinstated.

37 - Bargeddie or Baillieston Station - Anniesland Cross via Edinburgh Road, Royal Infirmary, Queen Street Station, Charing Cross Station, Kelvingrove Park, Partick, and Crow Road

39 - Barlanark - Clydebank via Lightburn Hospital, Carntyne Square, Warriston Street, Royal Infirmary, Queen Street Station, Charing Cross Station, Kelvingrove Park, Partick, Crow Road, Anniesland Cross, Alderman Road, Garscadden, Great Western Road, Kilbowie Road, Clydebank.

41 - Reverted back to running Easterhouse - Drumchapel via Great Western Road taking over one of the lettered variants of the 1 or 6 (unsure which - city - Drumchapel via GW Road was the 20)

58 - Crookfur - The Milton via Mearns Cross, Woodfarm, Thornliebank Station, Pollokshaws Road, Eglinton Toll, Devon Street, Pollokshaws Road, Albert Bridge, Glasgow Cross, High Street, Royal Infirmary, Springburn Road, Springburn Centre, Colston Road, and Ashgill Road to The Milton. This would take over one of the variants of the 38 between Crookfur and Eglinton Toll/back of Bridge Street Underground with a slightly revised route to the Royal Infirmary, restoring a bus service along High Street which it has not had since the old 37 that ran Castlemilk - The Milton was took off and the 31 extended via a dogleg route that went via Trongate, Stockwell Street, Briggait, and Albert Bridge, which eventually got curtailed back to St Enoch - East Kilbride.

Also, to avoid confusion, I would renumber the McGills 38 Glasgow - Johnstone to the 138, as it shares the First Glasgow 38 between the top of the town and Bridge Street Underground.

I'll leave these suggestions here so as to avoid making this a lengthier post than it already is.

*PS Someone who I worked with a long time ago who was originally from Dumbarton had pulled my leg slightly with the wisecrack that the Birmingham band Musical Youth"s Number One hit from 1982 Pass the Dutch was apparently inspired when they had a ride on the 216 Dumbarton - Helensburgh bus, as it passed through Dunhill on the left hand side. It was not the 1st April I would like to add.

I would avoid putting buses through Anniesland, Partick or Great Western Road as any form of time keeping is impossible.

The 41 works so well because it hasn't been touched in years, is constantly busy and it's on time. Any change to it will push Easterhouse and Cranhill passengers on to the X19

The 38 needs to be split back in to the 213 and 36, but with the 213 running Edinburgh rd carntyne barlanark Edinburgh Road.
Running more east end buses to Clydebank is pointless as the 60 already does this. What we need is links from the east end to Pollok area as currently there are none.

What do you do with current 46 which has again run on its current route for well over 30 years with the same number and some minor changes in route?

 

[GALLANTON]

I would avoid putting buses through Anniesland, Partick or Great Western Road as any form of time keeping is impossible.

The 41 works so well because it hasn't been touched in years, is constantly busy and it's on time. Any change to it will push Easterhouse and Cranhill passengers on to the X19

The 38 needs to be split back in to the 213 and 36, but with the 213 running Edinburgh rd carntyne barlanark Edinburgh Road.
Running more east end buses to Clydebank is pointless as the 60 already does this. What we need is links from the east end to Pollok area as currently there are none.

What do you do with current 46 which has again run on its current route for well over 30 years with the same number and some minor changes in route?

The only bit of the 46 route that hasn't changed for years is the bit between Castlemilk and Shettleston. The rest of the route is nowhere near the same as what it used to be.

 

[PaulMc7]

There's definitely a few changes I'd make to the current network. The likes of the 3 and 6 especially could do with a route split for reliability purposes too. I think the main aim around the network now has to be getting the best out of what is there especially with the driver shortage being a thing. I think service frequencies will be permanent post Covid but hopefully covered with a few different, new routes that give people more options. I certainly think the north of Glasgow lacks a bit especially from Bishopbriggs/Auchinairn.

If you involve route swaps at Shawlands with the 34A and 3 using Minard Road, Dinmont Road and Moss-side Road you could take a bit of route length out of the 3 and balance it with the 34A.

3-Drumchapel to Govan via Crossmyloof, Mosspark Boulevard, Halfway, Berryknowes Road then the current route.

34A-Castlemilk to Govan via Crossmyloof, Kilmarnock Road, Riverford Road, Barrhead Road, Silverburn, Crookston, Cardonald then normal route.

I guess you could add in variants to both especially at peaks to allow the current routes to be quicker for hospital staff from Castlemilk etc.

The 8 splitting at Robroyston could also be handy. Have both variants serve Glendale too so they get a bus again too. It's also pretty weird that Auchinairn and Bishopbriggs don't have a proper link either with First. Extension of the 57 from Westerhill to Strathkelvin Retail Park could be an interesting one.

I always wondered too if extending the 16 to Braehead would get more people to actually use it too. I've always found it to be an incredibly quiet service. The 8 could be cut back to Partick too as the route is incredibly long plus the 77 has far newer buses most of the time so a lot of people will get them instead.

 

[DC21]

X11 should have alternate journeys head into the fort. Give an express to there from Lanarkshire and City Centre

 

[PaulMc7]

X11 should have alternate journeys head into the fort. Give an express to there from Lanarkshire and City Centre

I always wonder how well different options could do for there to be honest. The problem with there, Braehead and Silverburn especially is how car centric they are. Buses from different areas could be a way to go though especially as different options could be key post Covid

 

[JumpinTrainz]

X11 should have alternate journeys head into the fort. Give an express to there from Lanarkshire and City Centre

That wouldn’t be a bad idea, however the Fort can get really busy and by the time the X11 came off and went through there it defeats the whole express part of it.

I would avoid putting buses through Anniesland, Partick or Great Western Road as any form of time keeping is impossible.

The 41 works so well because it hasn't been touched in years, is constantly busy and it's on time. Any change to it will push Easterhouse and Cranhill passengers on to the X19

The 38 needs to be split back in to the 213 and 36, but with the 213 running Edinburgh rd carntyne barlanark Edinburgh Road.
Running more east end buses to Clydebank is pointless as the 60 already does this. What we need is links from the east end to Pollok area as currently there are none.

What do you do with current 46 which has again run on its current route for well over 30 years with the same number and some minor changes in route?

The old 213 was ridiculously unreliable. Since the Simplicity changes to the 38E, I can say it’s only got better and more reliable. Buses on the 213 were normally a mix of buses that went there to die or brand spanking new there really was no in between. Sometimes the drivers would miss the Bargeddie section altogether and just do a loop at Baillieston lights like the current 38E does now. You were lucky if it ever turned up on time (if at all).

 

[PaulMc7]

There's been a few times I've been stuck on 60/60As for 25-30 mins just trying to get into Glasgow Fort due to the chaos for car parking and with the M8 cutoff feeding straight into it. The 19/38/46 do get caught in it a bit from the side they come in at from the City Centre/Parkhead but nowhere near as much as the 60/60A which are bad enough elsewhere too.

If there was a good place to chop the route of those down a bit it would be something I'd certainly consider. I'm always shocked if I go for a 60/60A and it's actually on time. Longer route lengths don't seem to work much at all for reliability in Glasgow and the outskirts to be fair. Each one of the longer routes seems to serve a real problem area for congestion that causes constant disruption.

Duke Street, Great Western Road at Kelvinbridge, Ruchill Street, Shawlands Cross at Kilmarnock Road and Pollokshaws Road, Peat Road Roundabout and Paisley Road West at Cardonald seem to be the worst congestion points although some other areas can get as bad at times.

 

[LT02 NVV]

I think that the 6A should be renumbered back to the 20, but, have it terminate at Rutherglen or Castlemilk instead really.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

That wouldn’t be a bad idea, however the Fort can get really busy and by the time the X11 came off and went through there it defeats the whole express part of it.


The old 213 was ridiculously unreliable. Since the Simplicity changes to the 38E, I can say it’s only got better and more reliable. Buses on the 213 were normally a mix of buses that went there to die or brand spanking new there really was no in between. Sometimes the drivers would miss the Bargeddie section altogether and just do a loop at Baillieston lights like the current 38E does now. You were lucky if it ever turned up on time (if at all).

Used the 213 for years between town and Edinburgh road and never had an issue with it not turning up

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

There's been a few times I've been stuck on 60/60As for 25-30 mins just trying to get into Glasgow Fort due to the chaos for car parking and with the M8 cutoff feeding straight into it. The 19/38/46 do get caught in it a bit from the side they come in at from the City Centre/Parkhead but nowhere near as much as the 60/60A which are bad enough elsewhere too.

If there was a good place to chop the route of those down a bit it would be something I'd certainly consider. I'm always shocked if I go for a 60/60A and it's actually on time. Longer route lengths don't seem to work much at all for reliability in Glasgow and the outskirts to be fair. Each one of the longer routes seems to serve a real problem area for congestion that causes constant disruption.

Duke Street, Great Western Road at Kelvinbridge, Ruchill Street, Shawlands Cross at Kilmarnock Road and Pollokshaws Road, Peat Road Roundabout and Paisley Road West at Cardonald seem to be the worst congestion points although some other areas can get as bad at times.

That's the issue - these high congestion areas are also the bus operating areas. Maryhill rd is a great example - it's always heavy with traffic but the bus stops are packed, and it's the same with Duke st.

 

[GusB]

Mod note: This should have been a new post, but was posted elsewhere accidentally. I've had to quote it to get it to show up with today's date.

Suggestions for First Glasgow service changes part 2

service 43 easterhouse - buchanan bus station
via garthamlock, ruchazie, haghill, Denniston

service 44 bargeddie - Parkhead forge
via Bailllieston, sandyhills, shettleston

service 45 south nitshill - buchanan bus station
via silverburn, govan, partick, charing cross

service 46 baillieston south scott street - carmunnock
via Tollcross, Parkhead, Denniston, bridgeton,
rutherglen, castlemilk

service 47 carmyle - mountblow
viaparkhead, city centre, partick, Clydebank

service 48 springburn -buchanan bus station
via balgrayhill, stobhill, ryehill rd, provanmill, riddrie, Denniston
wishart st, cathedral st

service 49 baljaffray - parkhead
via milngavie, maryhill, city centre, Denniston

service 50 cambuslang (cairns) -bargeddie
via cathkin, Rutherglen, city centre, Alexandra park

service 51 airdrie clark st - buchanan bus station
via coatbridge, baillieston, parkhead

service 52 buchanan bus station - clarkson toll
via shawlands, hillpark, mansewood

service 53 robroyston -old kilpatrick
via barmulloch, wallacewell road,red rd,
royal infirmary, great western rd, anniesland
clydebank

service 54 craigend circular
via carntyne, parkhead, greenfield, cranhill, garthamlock

service 55 duntocher - mosspark
via bearsden, anniesland, city centre, eglinton toll
pollocksheilds

service 56 linnvale - dumbarton
via clydebank, duntocher

service 57 bishopbriggs retail park - silverburn
via westerhill, woodhill, northgate rd, balornock east
broomfeild park, rye rd, ryehiil rd, red road,
eglinton toll, pollockshaws, thornliebank

 

[adrock1976]

At one time until the Simplicity changes, First Glasgow used to have various routes to Cumbernauld, albeit these served the first parts south of the M80 that were developed e.g. Condorrat (predates the New Town, hence how there is a "Main Road"), Carbrain, Kildrum, Seafar, Abronhill, Greenfaulds, and Ravenswood. These eventually transferred to Stagecoach (Ayr), which presently run as the X25/X25A/X28. The only presence First Glasgow has is the X3 that runs via Muirhead, Moodiesburn, Westfield (the only neighbourhood north of the M80 that FG serves), and A8011.

This got me thinking on how the neighbourhoods north of the M80 could be served (Blackwood, Smithstone, Balloch, Eastfield, Craigmarloch, and Carrickstone), while integrating it with decent connections with the trains at Croy station, and with the Falkirk/Stirling buses at the old Cumbernauld Village (the Falkirk/Stirling buses run past Wardpark, Westway Retail Park, and Castlecary before leaving the former Strathclyde Region/Dunbartonshire to enter into the former Central Region/Stirlingshire at Haggs, Bonnybridge).

I have come up with three options which are below.

Option 1 X3/X4 Loop service

This option has the present X3 reduced in daytime frequency to every 30 minutes, with no change to the present line of route to Cumbernauld TC. In this direction, the X3 would continue back to Glasgow via Village, Carrickstone, Craigmarloch, Eastfield, Balloch, Croy Station (before coming back on itself), and Craiglinn, then as existing route to Glasgow. The opposite direction would be numbered as X4 and would run every 30 minutes daytime, providing an increase in frequency from every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes Glasgow - Craiglinn via Muirhead, Moodiesburn, and Westfield. Layovers of 5 minutes at each of Cumbernauld TC and Croy Station for some timetable robustness.

Buses required for daytime frequency = 9 (increase from present 6)


Option 2 Divert from Craiglinn to serve Croy Station and the north neighbourhoods

The X3 would run as the existing line of route Glasgow - Craiglinn, then Blackwood, Croy Station, Balloch, Eastfield, Craigmarloch, Carrickstone, and the Village to Cumbernauld TC. Frequency reduced to every 30 minutes (could be compensated for the 38C to be renumbered back to 36, curtailed to Buchanan, and extended from Chryston Road to Moodiesburn, Westfield, Craiglinn, A8011, Cumbernauld TC).

Buses required for daytime frequency = 6 (no change from present)


Option 3 X3 remains as is, with new X4 serving Croy Station and the north neighbourhoods

The X3 left as is, with a new X4 introduced to run from Glasgow via M80 to Junction 4, then Westfield, Craiglinn, Blackwood, Croy Station, Balloch, Eastfield, Craigmarloch, Carrickstone, and the Village to Cumbernauld TC. Daytime frequency Glasgow - Cumbernauld every 30 minutes. Evening short journeys Cumbernauld - Craiglinn provides an improved frequency of every 30 minutes for interchange with trains at Croy and other buses at Craiglinn.

Buses required for daytime frequency = 5 (in addition to the 6 for the X3)


It is noted that these options would take over the present 348, 403/A (both SPT supported services operated by Stuarts of Carluke), and the 34/35 operated by Dunns Coaches.

The present day state of play is that the 348 (Croy Station - Carrickstone) is a bitty timetable, with a big 3 hour gap between 11:00-14:00. There is a not so big 90 minute or so gap before the 403/A starts in the evenings. On Sundays, the 403A is a perfect 60 minute frequency. However, for some strange reason, the 348 cannot carry passengers for local journeys between the neighbourhoods and only to or from Croy Station (no wonder people drive to the station and clog up the car parks).

Dunns Coaches 34/35 is totally atrocious in that apart from using a vehicle (one of the Optare Solos from between 2005-2008) that has a horizontal crack in the wing windscreen (between the door and the main windscreen) and are severely corroded (going by the amount of rust near the door), it runs a strange timetable (35 runs every 60 minutes between 07:00 - 16:00, breaks for lunch meaning there is a 2 hour gap, the 34 runs every 30 minutes from 08:00 - 17:00 with a break for lunch meaning there is a gap of 1 hour) and is not what is on the Bustimes.org website. Also, the drivers are very grumpy too. It is only since November 2021 that they could be bothered to run a service on Saturdays, as this got pulled at the end of March 2020.

The options above would provide a much improved service to the north neighbourhoods (although due to where Blackwood is, this means coming back on yourself or going via Hunthill and Mollins Road with nothing much there) as one of the biggest complaints regarding the bus services is that there is inadequate provision to Croy Station and express buses to Glasgow compared with the neighbourhoods south of the M80. Another big complaint is that Dunns break for lunch, meaning that residents of Carrickstone and Craigmarloch cannot attend medical appointments or cannot get back home.

See attached file in both .xlsx and .pdf as to how I have worked out the timetable for each option.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Do the Cumbernauld routes make a lot of money? I’m curious as since First operated this territory there has also been a railway electrification. Not to mention car usage in somewhere like Cumbernauld would be pretty high being further out I’d imagine.

Most of the time I’m out that way the deckers look to be carrying fresh air but obviously I know that’s not reflective of the service as a whole.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I was certain I seen a topic revolving around First Glasgow & pontential changes.

After seeing what’s being said on the actual First Glasgow thread I thought I weight in a little more here.

A service change is what’s being needed, not for the purposes of the company to rectify loss making routes which undoubtably it has seen through over the years but changes to spread out resources the company has left, ie drivers.

Based on what I’ve seen over the past few years as well as working at Caledonia now & again driving many services across Glasgow I now view much of the problem lies with the company not being progressive enough.

I have said it before on here and I’d say it over & over, there should be primary & secondary cross-city routes along with many routes being reversed to the way they used to be.

E.g. Hypthetically:

41 - being reconnected to the 6A route, but using the layover time on these routes within the city centre to reroute - GWR - Renfield St - Argyle St - Trongate - Bellgrove St - Duke St - Carntyne, essentially meaning that the 41 become the primary route on GWR > City Centre.

The 60, when it was the 40 never went to Milngavie, only Clydebank, the 60 could be every 15 minutes as a secondary route simply to maintain the route for those travelling from Clydebank - Drumchapel - Canniesburn - Maryhill or a route change at the east end through the city centre being Shettleston - Parkhead Cross - Duke St- George Square - Maryhill, there is no need for the 60 to go to Trongate given that from Shettleston the 2 offers this and from Parkhead Cross both the 2 & 61 goes to Trongate, sure, that means that the likes of Barlanark & Springboig wouldn’t get the 60 to Trongate anymore but these are smaller areas and it still means that they get to Maryhill on the same bus if needed for example, also as I mentioned above the 41 route change would serve Duke St to Trongate, in this circumstance the 61 would be the necessary primary route for Maryhill through to the East End, a shorter Half-Hourly 60 between Milngavie & Glasgow City Centre/St Enochs makes much more sense, it is undoubted the most affluent area the entire 60 service goes to at the moment, theres also the x10 Bluebird servicing some of this route as well through Maryhill.

Number 2 being curtailed to every 10-12 minutes with larger than 10.3m deckers, as @Jordan Adam had said elsewhere even reasonable reductions in frequency can have several savings in the amount of drivers needed for a single route.

The 6 is a particular gripe for me, it is intended to be a primary route of course & you do get those traveling from the likes of Busby, Clarkston etc to great western road & visè versa but not near half as many as will use the service to go to the city centre only, therefore personally I assume that half-splitting the service would go some way to saving on driver numbers for the route to be deployed elsewhere, like on the 2, as both routes are stationed on scotstoun, 6 - East Kilbride to Clydebank every 20 minute but a shorter working number 6 between East Kilbride to Buchanan Bus Station!, Every other 20 minute, every 10 minutes between Kilbride /City Centre, it would mean that in this circumstance the 6 would fill both a Primary route on the South Side but Secondary on the West End.

In the above suggestion that some of the 60s are removed perhaps some of Blantyre 18s could go to Caley/East drivers and therefore open a few spaces at Blantyre to operate some of the suggested shorter working 6’s, simply because there are bus boards that operate dead to E/Kilbride from scotstoun as well as 18s running dead from Blantyre to the City Centre.

I have always been curious of the running costs for Caley/North routes when they mostly do early dead journeys to Kirkintilloch, Cumbernauld & Kilsyth(x85/x87/88/89), Caley north also operates the 87(auchinairn) when traditionally this particular 87 was actually part of the 10 route that currently is driven by Caley/South drivers.

However, The 88 could certainly be reduced to every 20 minutes, and perhaps 1 or 2 more drivers redeployed to Caley/East for there 61s etc.

The 1, 1A & 1B should be removed from Whitecrook promptly, the 2, 6 & 1D already provides alternatives, also I’d like to understand how many drivers are required for the 1C & x4, why can these 2 route not simply be peak-time only routes, the 3 or 60 could be briefly rerouted to compensate for some off-peak journeys for the 1C & the 4/4A extended every half-hour off-peak to cover Knightswood, as it previously done so for year & years, the 4/4A have major problems at Charring Cross with congestion, however, making Sauchiehall St accessible for taxis & buses only would make a great improvement to this, I always think that Woodlands shouldn’t need to be serviced by a bus as often given it’s close proximity to the city centre, Kelvin Way which is now pedestrianised could’ve be utilised as a bus gate for the 4, 4A & 15(Citybus) to help avoid the congestion at Charring Cross.

I’ve also mentioned the Abysmal efforts by Glasgow city council with regards to man bus lanes, not doubling down on efforts to keep bus lanes across the entire city clear. they’ve all been forgotten about in Maryhill, GWR & Rutherglen and no doubt elsewhere as well.

 

[PaulMc7]

I was certain I seen a topic revolving around First Glasgow & pontential changes.

After seeing what’s being said on the actual First Glasgow thread I thought I weight in a little more here.

A service change is what’s being needed, not for the purposes of the company to rectify loss making routes which undoubtably it has seen through over the years but changes to spread out resources the company has left, ie drivers.

Based on what I’ve seen over the past few years as well as working at Caledonia now & again driving many services over Glasgow I now view much of the problem lies with the company not being progressive enough.

I have said it before on here and I’d say it over & over, there should be primary & secondary cross-city routes along with route being reverse to the ways they used to be.

E.g. Hypthetically:

41 - being reconnected to the 6A route, but using the layover time on these routes within the city centre to reroute - GWR - Renfield St - Argyle St - Trongate - Bellgrove St - Duke St - Carntyne.

The 60, when it was the 40 never went to Milngavie, only Clydebank, the 60 could be every 15 minutes as a secondary route simply to maintain the route for those travelling from Clydebank - Drumchapel - Canniesburn - Maryhill or a route change at the east end through the city centre being Shettleston - Parkhead Cross - Duke St- George Square - Maryhill, there is no need for the 60 to go to Trongate given that from Shettleston the 2 offers this and from Parkhead Cross both the 2 & 61 goes to Trongate, sure, that means that the likes of Barlanark or Springboig don’t get the 60 to Trongate anymore but there are smaller areas and it still means that they still get to Maryhill on the same bus if needed for example, also as I mentioned above the 41 route change would serve Duke St to Trongate, in this circumstance the 61 would be the necessary primary route for Maryhill through to the East End, a shorter Half-Hourly 60 between Milngavie & Glasgow City Centre/St Enochs makes much more sense, it is undoubted the most affluent area the entire 60 services at the moment, theres also the x10 Bluebird servicing some of this route as well through Maryhill.

Number 2 being curtailed to every 10-12 minutes with larger than 10.3m deckers, as @Jordan Adam had said elsewhere even reasonable reductions in frequency can have several savings in the amount of drivers needed for a single route.

The 6 is a particular gripe for me, it is intended to be a primary route of course & you do get those traveling from the likes of Busby, Clarkston etc to great western road & visè versa but not near half as many as will use the service to go to the city centre only, therefore personally I assume that half-splitting the service would go some way to saving on driver numbers for the route to be deployed elsewhere, like on the 2, as both routes are stationed on scotstoun, 6 - East Kilbride to Clydebank every 20 minute but a shorter working number 6 between East Kilbride to Buchanan Bus Station!, Every other 20 minute, every 10 minutes between Kilbride /City Centre, it would mean that in this circumstance the 6 would fill both a Primary route on the South Side but Secondary on the West End.

In the above suggestion that some of the 60s are removed perhaps some of Blantyre 18s could go to Caley/East drivers and therefore open a few spaces at Blantyre to operate some of the suggested shorter working 6’s, simply because there are bus boards that operate dead to E/Kilbride from scotstoun as well as 18s running dead from Blantyre to the City Centre.

I have always been curious of the running costs for Caley/North routes when they mostly do early dead journeys to Kirkintilloch, Cumbernauld & Kilsyth(x85/x87/88/89), Caley north also operates the 87(auchinairn) when traditionally this particular 87 was actually part of the 10 route that currently is driven by Caley/South drivers.

However, The 88 could certainly be reduced to every 20 minutes, and perhaps 1 or 2 more drivers redeployed to Caley/East for there 61s etc.

The 1, 1A & 1B should be removed from Whitecrook promptly, the 2, 6 & 1D already provides alternatives, also I’d like to understand how many drivers are required for the 1C & x4, why can these 2 route not simply be peak-time only routes, the 3 or 60 could be briefly rerouted to compensate for some off-peak journeys for the 1C & the 4/4A extended every half-hour off-peak to cover Knightswood, as it previously done so for year & years, the 4/4A have major problems at Charring Cross with congestion, however, making Sauchiehall St accessible for taxis & buses only would make a great improvement to this, I always think that Woodlands shouldn’t need to be serviced by a bus as often given it’s close proximity to the city centre, Kelvin Way which is now pedestrianised could’ve be utilised as a bus gate for the 4, 4A & 15(Citybus) to help avoid the congestion at Charring Cross.

I’ve also mentioned the Abysmal efforts by Glasgow city council double down on efforts to keep bus lanes across the entire city clear. they’ve all been forgotten about in Maryhill, GWR & Rutherglen and no doubt elsewhere as well.

I agree with a lot of this but don't touch the 1C and X4 as they're pretty key due to location served and the numbers on the 1C are very consistent plus through Garscadden it's the only First bus. The other thing with the 1C is that the peak for the service in terms of passenger numbers goes behind the normal peaks. Even at 9/10pm they can be very busy. I do think the 4 worked better than the X4 has but the loadings can be heavier outside of peaks too at times but into the city centre it dies majorly in the evening. I've seen a few being completely empty on the expressway after 6-6:30pm

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I agree with a lot of this but don't touch the 1C and X4 as they're pretty key due to location served and the numbers on the 1C are very consistent plus through Garscadden it's the only First bus. The other thing with the 1C is that the peak for the service in terms of passenger numbers goes behind the normal peaks. Even at 9/10pm they can be very busy. I do think the 4 worked better than the X4 has but the loadings can be heavier outside of peaks too at times but into the city centre it dies majorly in the evening. I've seen a few being completely empty on the expressway after 6-6:30pm

The only thing an x4 does is cover Westland Dr that the 44 didn’t, it’s obviously giving Knightswood an express to the city centre and yet avoiding said congestion at Charring Cross.

Mind you the 4 practically carries fresh air compared to how it used to be.

I’m not that clued up about the way the 1C operates other than it being every 20 minutes throughout the week, what I do find peculiar is the fact it’s numbered as a 1-variation, even though it only serves a insignificant portion of Dumbarton road, an X3 sounds more appropriate.