Speed Limit up to 80mph

[radamfi]

It's not that easy, restriciton orders would have to be made if you wanted a signed limit and this would likely be quite expensive. It would also be quite expensive if you wanted to change the limit at a later date as you'd have to change all the signs.

Yes, the implementation of the 80 mph limit would mean no need to change any signs so won't cost anything.

Different rules seem to apply in Scotland where you have 70 signs on entry to motorways. Sometimes you even get 70 signs as well as the black and white sign! I wonder if the change to 80 mph limit will apply outside England?

Where there are only two lanes there can be delays due to the calibration of the limiters when a truck doing 56 mph overtakes a truck doing 55 mph.

It would be nice if one of them slows down to allow the other to pass but it doesn't seem to happen very often!

 

[starrymarkb]

Plenty of people don't have cruise control, myself included.

Me neither, though it is a pretty simple retrofit to some cars, eg mine just requires the stalk, a clutch switch and a few minutes in the garage plugged into Tech2.

Cruise Control isn't really offered as standard on UK trim levels though. People don't pay the extra when buying the car, plus taking options means that the lead time between deposit and delivery goes from a week to 3 months (and hence Cruise control is rare on the second hand market)
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However I think this definitely needs to happen alongside a review of speed limit signage - mainly to get rid of the 'national speed limit' (white with black diagonal line). We should go to numbers only so it's unambiguous what the limit for cars is. Drivers of HGVs and other restricted vehicles know what their limits are for different types of roads.

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On the continent only speed limits different from the norm are signed. You are expected to know the limits for each type of road (Which are often signposted at the border for visitors). Especially as in France and Germany the 50km/h limit in urban areas automatically applies when you pass the town sign. There is NO speed limit signage as you enter.

The 50km/h limit automatically applies beyond this sign until you pass the cancelation sign (same sign but with the town name crossed out)

 

[Zoe]

On the continent only speed limits different from the norm are signed. You are expected to know the limits for each type of road (Which are often signposted at the border for visitors). Especially as in France and Germany the 50km/h limit in urban areas automatically applies when you pass the town sign. There is NO speed limit signage as you enter.

You should also know the "right over left" rule at junctions where there are no signs.

 

[notadriver]

And, please, add 3 or 4mph on top so you actually do the speed limit and not your offset speedo!

56mph is an arbitrary figure that someone chose for the purpose of doing economy measurements. Hence, manufacturers need to gear things to do well for the advertising. A small engined car is going to have way different characteristics to a large engined car, like how efficient an engine is when it is putting out xx% of power.

Speed limits do not operator for economy. You can decide that by how you drive, or what car/engine/fuel you buy.

I wonder if we should apply the same logic to trains and planes to reduce fuel consumption? Funnily enough, a train will use more power at speed - so best drop the limits there too.

I think planes operate at their most economical speed anyway. Flying slower uses more fuel.

 

[starrymarkb]

I think planes operate at their most economical speed anyway. Flying slower uses more fuel.

Acutally they do fly slower. I beleive BA use a 'Cost Index'* of 25 on their Airbii - Easyjet use 16

*Cost Index is a measure of performance that the pilot inputs during the preflight set up. Higher numbers leads to higher performance (faster climbs, higher cruise speeds etc).

Aircraft will try and fly as high as possible based on winds and distance as higher altitudes give reduced fuel burn once at altitude (of course they have to balance the extra fuel taken to reach higher flight levels)

 

[jon0844]

It's not that easy, restriciton orders would have to be made if you wanted a signed limit and this would likely be quite expensive. It would also be quite expensive if you wanted to change the limit at a later date as you'd have to change all the signs.

That's what happens on roads already when speed limits come down, as they often do. We've had loads of new speed limit signs, and repeater signs, as well as radar controlled reminder signs.

There's little reason to worry about getting rid of the black/white signs when the last speed limit change was about 50 years ago, and was temporary - hence leaving the 'no limit' signs in place and just referring to them as 'national' limit. The fact is, they should have gone THEN!

 

[notadriver]

Acutally they do fly slower. I beleive BA use a 'Cost Index'* of 25 on their Airbii - Easyjet use 16

*Cost Index is a measure of performance that the pilot inputs during the preflight set up. Higher numbers leads to higher performance (faster climbs, higher cruise speeds etc).

Aircraft will try and fly as high as possible based on winds and distance as higher altitudes give reduced fuel burn once at altitude (of course they have to balance the extra fuel taken to reach higher flight levels)

Yes I know that. What i'm saying is that they obviously dont just stick to 250 knots and 10000 feet as that is far less economical than a (for example) Mach 0.74 cruise at 35000 feet (on a long flight)

 

[Zoe]

That's what happens on roads already when speed limits come down, as they often do. We've had loads of new speed limit signs, and repeater signs, as well as radar controlled reminder signs.

Yes but just think how many derstricted roads there are in the country. You'd have to publish a speed restriction order for every single one and change the signs. I doubt many of the currently deristricted country lanes would have a 60 mph speed restriction order though, the published limit would I expect be lower. You may also be required to install repeaters the length of the country lane of a speed limit order is in force.

 

[michael769]

There's little reason to worry about getting rid of the black/white signs when the last speed limit change was about 50 years ago, and was temporary - hence leaving the 'no limit' signs in place and just referring to them as 'national' limit.

It still is temporary, they have to renew it every 18-months (the maximum time allowed for a temporary limit). And yes they have forgotten once or twice over the years!

 

[jon0844]

Yes but just think how many derstricted roads there are in the country. You'd have to publish a speed limit order for every single one and change the signs. I doubt many of the currently deristricted country lanes would have a 60 mph speed restriction order though, the new limit would I expect be lower.

Why would it have to be lower? Many roads are fine at 60mph, but you wouldn't take blind bends at 60 just because it's the limit.

Why do we have to factor in the worst drivers to bring the limits down for others? Idiots will always be idiots.

Of course it would cost a lot to change all of the signs, but it probably should happen one day. If only to help foreign visitors. We could also adopt the other method, already mentioned, where people are expected to know the limit based on road type, town or country - and limit signs are only when you need to specifically increase or decrease the normal. Then you need less signs full stop.

You could also look at technology whereby every car has GPS and can display the speed limit for that road automatically. As long as the database of limits is centrally controlled, rather than down to an individual mapping company to mix a combination of research (contacting local authorities, Highways Agency etc) and driving routes to visually check - which means missing some or making mistakes, and not knowing when things change, that could be the future.

Of course that then introduces the fear that car makers will be forced to have cars speed limited based on this, and I know from experience how the odd rapid acceleration bursts can get you out of a sticky situation.

 

[Zoe]

Why would it have to be lower? Many roads are fine at 60mph, but you wouldn't take blind bends at 60 just because it's the limit.

There are quite a few single track roads with passing places and many bends that are currently derestricted. As it wouldn't be safe to do 60 mph on them I can't see any reason to publish a 60 mph speed restriction order for them and that a lower speed limit should be used. I would have thought one reason they currently remain deristricted is due to the cost of publishing the order and changing the signs and not that it is safe to do 60 mph on the road.

 

[richw]

It's all about common sense though, and to an extent the car. If you have a powerful turbo charged car with uprated brakes, you can quite safely do higher speeds far safer than someone with a tatty old fiesta for example can do 50mph. Unfortunately many drivers lack that sense!
I doubt we will see any changes until they decided to go over to kmh from mph. Will that ever happen.....I don't know.

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[Greenback]

Quite a few drivers also consider themselves to be far better drivers than they actually are too!

 

[jon0844]

There are windy lanes with open stretches where you can speed up, so the limit can't be 20mph for the narrow passing points - or you'd be forced to drive at that speed ALL the time, and get nowhere.

So you keep it at 60mph and let people judge. It clearly works pretty well as there aren't loads and loads of accidents on these roads every day. You might get some scrapes from bushes, or clipped mirrors, when passing another vehicle even at slow speed - but how many head-on with a closing speed of 120mph?

Let's stop this need to cater for the lowest common denominator, as common sense always applies. You don't learn to drive by being told to always keep your eye on the speedo. Even the police aren't too worried about you nudging over the limit slightly, but they are worried about dangerous driving, inconsiderate driving and people driving dangerous vehicles etc.

They always had discretion, but sadly for many years we thought it was better to get rid of loads, and then re-deploy lots more for normal police duties keeping them away from the streets. To be replaced by dumb cameras that could do a tiny fraction of what a police officer does... and people aren't as scared of a yellow box as a fully marked Interceptor traffic car. Even when I know I'm totally legal and driving courteously, these things always intimidate me!

 

[Zoe]

There are windy lanes with open stretches where you can speed up, so the limit can't be 20mph for the narrow passing points - or you'd be forced to drive at that speed ALL the time, and get nowhere.

You could impose 20 mph limits on the bends. On the A303(T) there is actually an advisory 20 mph limit on one bend and it would be possible to change this into a legal limit.

 

[jon0844]

Didn't you want to save time and money with traffic orders and putting up road signs?

How easy will it be to put up posts and signs on narrow country roads, and keep them free of obstruction from leaves? Another huge expense for a local council, who will eventually seek to just close the road.

I'd even suggest that there would be more accidents/injuries when such signs were being erected than at any time before or after their placement - or disruption from needless road closures and diversions.

How about people just slow down, as they already do? Even advisory signs (with no legal enforcement) seem overkill for such roads.

 

[Zoe]

Didn't you want to save time and money with traffic orders and putting up road signs?

So why not just leave the roads deristcted and expect people to know the speed limit?

 

[Donny Dave]

I've not read the topic, but I'll add my tuppence worth anyway ....

80mph is a good thing, as long as the government allow limiters to be disabled while in the UK for lorries and coaches.

AFAIK, the legal speed limit for HGVs (as set by the government) is still 100kph (62mph) on motorways, compared to the EU law which sets the speed limit at 90kph (56mph).

Coaches will need to have the ability to travel at 70mph as well, otherwise all the new 80mph limit for cars and small vans will achieve is queues of standing traffic will build up faster.

 

[90019]

How about people just slow down, as they already do? Even advisory signs (with no legal enforcement) seem overkill for such roads.

Out in the truck last week, the instructor was telling me to ignore the advisory limits as they're too low, and was saying that using some of them would likely mean getting marked down in the test for undue hesitation.
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AFAIK, the legal speed limit for HGVs (as set by the government) is still 100kph (62mph) on motorways

It's 60mph for HGVs on motorways.

 

[Zoe]

It's useful to have a standardized limit throughout the EU though.

 

[Oswyntail]

Quite a few drivers also consider themselves to be far better drivers than they actually are too!

For most people, the physiological reaction to driving is a level of fear (raised heart rate, adrenalin etc). This is quite reasonable, considering. Sadly, some try to condition us into thinking this is not fear, but "excitement" (akin to bunjy jumping); look at the Top Gear bods with the sound off then tell me they are not essentially terrified of what they are doing. "Fear" is designed to lead to caution, and the ability to make quick reactions. Unfortunately the "excitement" interpretation is designed to encourage risks. The sooner we all see driving as simply a means of getting from A to B the better.
IMHO, the BMW (and similar) crowd are the most dangerous. They think because they can stop in a mm that everyone else can. Their wives are probably far better drivers

 

[Darandio]

It's 60mph for HGVs on motorways.

Since when? I have only ever known them to be 56mph.

Or do the vast majority of hauliers set them to the EU limit?

 

[Zoe]

Since when? I have only ever known them to be 56mph.

Or do the vast majority of hauliers set them to the EU limit?

You won't see a truck doing 60 mph even though that is the legal limit, the EU directive requires that the trucks be limited to 90 kmh.

 

[radamfi]

The 60 mph speed limit for single carriageways is quite generous, and mostly obeyed. The limit in the Netherlands is only 80 km/h.

The HGV limit on single carriageways is rarely observed, but if it was, it would lead to a de facto 40 mph limit on single carriageways with a significant HGV flow and where passing is difficult.

 

[richw]

Since when? I have only ever known them to be 56mph.

Or do the vast majority of hauliers set them to the EU limit?

They're legally limited to 56 but the speed limit on a motorway is 60 for them, work that logic out?

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[90019]

Since when? I have only ever known them to be 56mph.

Or do the vast majority of hauliers set them to the EU limit?

The speed limit is 60mph, but they're limited to 56.

 

[Darandio]

Yeah, I understand it now, not that it makes any sense, straight bananas and all that.... :roll:

 

[radamfi]

The Highway Code

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070304

shows the speed limit for goods vehicles exceeding 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight to be 40 mph on single carriageways, 50 mph on dual carriageways and 60 mph on motorways. However, 60 mph can't be reached because of the separate requirement to have speed limiters set to 90 km/h.

 

[Zoe]

Yeah, I understand it now, not that it makes any sense

As I say, it's good to have a standardized limit throughout the EU considering the number of trucks that use British roads from elsewhere in the EU.

 

[radamfi]

The sooner we all see driving as simply a means of getting from A to B the better.

Automated driving can't come soon enough.

IMHO, the BMW (and similar) crowd are the most dangerous. They think because they can stop in a mm that everyone else can. Their wives are probably far better drivers

Even if the car could stop in 1 mm, there is still the thinking distance. At 70mph, the thinking distance is 21 m.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_188029.pdf