Speed Limit up to 80mph

[jon0844]

Just checking, but are we defining the middle lane as the one closest to the central reservation, or the one centre lane in each direction?

Best bet is to just refer by lane number, as that's far easier. Hard shoulder, lane 1, 2, 3 etc.

I was told that if you've not overtaken someone in 10 seconds, you shouldn't be in lane 2 (or lane 3 etc). Get back in and then overtake later on.

It is okay to change lanes. On an autobahn in Germany, often just two lanes, people change lanes all the time. It works just fine - and you can have people doing 50mph and 150mph next to each other without harm.

I am no so certain it could work here, as just as people have this sense of entitlement about everything in life, so too do they believe that if they want to drive in lane 3 at 69mph then they bloody well will - and to hell with everyone else.

80mph is just fine, and cars with 6 (or 7) gears are not massively less fuel efficient when cruising. You don't have to accelerate to get to 80mph like you're on a drag strip. Once you're at the speed, it's fairly easy to keep there. Motorways are incredibly easy roads to drive on, but if you (as in anyone, not you!) feel that speed is harming your concentration or judgement - please, please get off and stick to slower roads. For your own sake, not just mine.

100 mph is madness. General public are stupid and can't be trusted to drive at those sorts of speeds. Just leave speed limit as it is. Everyone does 80 anyway. Unfair to raise speed limit for cars if limits of 56/62mph for HGV/PCVs remain the same.

See above. Works fine elsewhere. I do sort of agree that you may have a point if you meant BRITISH drivers are stupid. I'm inclined to agree as we've been allowed to develop incredibly bad habits and selfishness; on the road and society in general. Fix one and you may fix the other?

Most of Europe, even Sweden with its 'vision zero' desire to have NO road deaths have increased their speed limits. Most accept that speed isn't the primary cause of accidents. We all knew this too, but couldn't say it when people made very good money from speed cameras. All non-profit partnerships naturally, except it wasn't the lack of profit that was the problem but rather the nice salaries the people got for setting them up. For a good few years, motorists came to think that as long as you kept to the speed limit (or at least when passing a camera) everything else was fine. Be on your mobile, forget to get car insurance, get drunk, have a spliff... but DON'T get caught by a camera.

 

[Metroland]

Found what I was really looking for :

http://www.rssb.co.uk/SiteCollectio...search/T618_traction-energy-metrics_final.pdf

On page 51 the table shows the coach as being the least polluting.

And you have to read the small print: Average loads coach 60%, intercity rail 40%. If you make them both 50%, rail is better, and if you take the real world measured stats intercity rail is still generally better. (see above). Especially when intercity trains move at 100mph average and coaches around half that speed.

Eurostar is even less, but then most of the electricity comes form low polluting nuclear power.

 

[OxtedL]

Well if you increase the occupancy of each car by getting people to share and not going in their own car then there would likely be a reduciton in car traffic.

I was being pedantic.

1/1.2 = 0.83333333333333333333333333333333 > 0.8

But even that is debatable. We know that if you create/free up capacity, others just move in and use it. This has been proved over and over again. On roads and railways.

 

[notadriver]

And you have to read the small print: Average loads coach 60%, intercity rail 40%. If you make them both 50%, rail is better, and if you take the real world measured stats intercity rail is still generally better. (see above). Especially when intercity trains move at 100mph average and coaches around half that speed.

Eurostar is even less, but then most of the electricity comes form low polluting nuclear power.

I wonder what the best economical speed for a train is. For road vehicles it seems to be around 55 mph and of course coaches only travel a bit faster and do 62.

 

[Metroland]

That's a complex question, it's probably around 60-70mph. But here's the catch, and Modern Railways magazine fell into this trap when it went through a period about how speed was a bad thing:

Intercity trains, travelling at high speeds, are attractive to people especially versus road transport (and plane to an extent). This is why the average loads are much higher (because you get modal shift) and hence the overall energy efficiency per passenger is better. Some of the most inefficient trains are those trundling around at low speeds on branch lines at around 60mph which do not compete effectively with cars and have low overall loads, have poor stock and crew utilisation.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder what the best economical speed for a train is. For road vehicles it seems to be around 55 mph and of course coaches only travel a bit faster and do 62.

It's all down to the gearing. I guess that car makers opted to be efficient at this speed purely as it was how we measured things to allow comparisons.

A large engine with the right gearing will probably be very happy and willing to be efficient at much higher speeds. Aerodynamics obviously play a part at very high speeds, but I doubt 80mph is pushing the limits - and modern cars are much better designed in this regard too.

 

[richw]

I'm sure one of the transport ministers in recent times, in an interview stated they were reviewing the motorway speed limits to 80mph, because everyone does it anyway, and their has been a reduction in motorway incidents in the last 20 years.

 

[jon0844]

Almost 50% exceed it apparently. I am all for variable speed limits, or lower limits in bad weather (as in France).

Common sense should apply obviously but it clearly doesn't. 80mph limits won't mean always driving at 80. Or shouldn't!

 

[richw]

the speed limits need to be weather and traffic related adjustable,
At peak times it needs be lower, and off peak times it needs to be higher, much like the system on the M4 around Newport and Cardiff

 

[Butts]

Has anyone ever driven at 150mph on an autobahn in Germany - the prospect of achieving that speed in even light traffic is quite frankly terrifying to me.

I once hired a Porsche Boxster for the weekend as a special treat for my son(what a liar it was for me as well a bit like the "scalextric or train set scenario ")

It was a summers morning on the M9 about 6am with no traffic in sight and the hood down. Let's just say I utilised the vehicle almost to it's full potential and it felt fantastic.

Afterwards I felt really guilty and realised what a stupid thing I had done as a responsible adult exposing my son to that sort of danger. A middle aged man had for a short time become a "boy racer".

That aside the car was fantastic to drive on country roads (at legal speeds) - the "grip and handling" were something else. Getting back into the Vectra at the end of the hire period was a big come down.

 

[es373]

Faster you go, the more aware you are.

It's a known fact that London bicycle commuters who don't wear crash helmets rarely have accident compared to those who do wear them.

My opinion is it's a mental safety blanket which let's you drop your guard and be a bit more lax. Removing that blanket makes you be more aware an alert.

It's a plus I reckon.

 

[S19]

Has anyone ever driven at 150mph on an autobahn in Germany - the prospect of achieving that speed in even light traffic is quite frankly terrifying to me.

Yep I've done an indicated 170mph on the Autobahn in my car (so probably more like 155-160 as Speedos over read)

The fact that many other cars were doing 3 figure speeds, it didn't seem quite as fast.

If you're in the right car, that is well built, and handles well, it feels like doing 100-120 in any 'normal car'

I have two cars. I wouldn't even dream of going a ton in the Focus I have as it doesn't feel safe at those speeds! The other car, no problem though lol.

Even though I'm an avid petrol head I don't agree with the increase in speed limit. Most UK drivers can't use a motorway properly and our roads aren't as good as abroad.

I have a couple of ideas to make traffic flow easier.

1. Ban HGVs from overtaking at busy times on busy motorways

2. Make middle lane hogging an endorsable offence. Too many people do it, and it is slowing our motorways down. They effectively lose a lane as you can't undertake.

 

[GB]

Faster you go, the more aware you are.

It's a known fact that London bicycle commuters who don't wear crash helmets rarely have accident compared to those who do wear them.

My opinion is it's a mental safety blanket which let's you drop your guard and be a bit more lax. Removing that blanket makes you be more aware an alert.

It's a plus I reckon.

While that maybe true, the consequences of such high speed if you do have an accident will be exponentially worse then 70mph. You can be the best driver or cyclist in the world but you can't account for all the other idiots on the road or the unforeseen circumstances.

 

[es373]

GB, while i do 100% agree with you - they should bring in harder driving tests and also something like personality tests for driving.
Should you be likely to 'pimp' up a crap peugot 205 with skirts and a bass system and then rag the thing around towns at 0200, then you shouldn't be allowed to drive.
Same with people who abuse their privileges of owning a car - fines and punishments should be extremely harsh in my opinion.

 

[HST Power]

Everyone drives at 80mph. I see people doing 90 plus every single day.

Raising the limit would only make change for the worse. It always worries me when I see young drivers shooting along at hundreds of miles an hour in X Registered Citroen Saxo's and badly cared for Ford Focuses. I'm not stereotyping that young drivers are the only ones who drive dangerously, because they are not, but my point is that a lot of young people tend to drive around in old, cheap cars because they are the easiest to obtain budget wise, and you can customise them with fancy paint jobs and massive exhausts for less than you paid for the spare tyres. But these cars are old, they've been in service for a long time and you can see they've taken a battering. They are death traps, and taking them up to high speed is insane. The chances of a blow out, or the engine encountering a problem is higher, and the consequences if they crashed would be just as devastating.

I'm not the perfect driver, far from it. A few weeks ago, I was in a BMW M5 doing 140mph. I wasn't driving, and I have to admit that going at such speeds was tremendous fun, but nonetheless doing 140mph is lethal, and careless. If you want to go fast, take your car to a race track.

 

[Greenback]

Surely the best argument in favour of raising the speed limit isn't 'Well, everyone drives at 80 anyway'?! Especially when not everyone does go that fast!

If it was raised, would everyone still drive at even higher speeds anyway? There is a definite feeling that it's Ok to go just a bit faster than the elgal limit!

 

[radamfi]

Petrol is obviously still very cheap if so many people are still prepared to waste fuel going at 70 mph and over. I rarely go over 60 mph because I have better things to spend my money on!

 

[jon0844]

Even though I'm an avid petrol head I don't agree with the increase in speed limit. Most UK drivers can't use a motorway properly and our roads aren't as good as abroad.

I have a couple of ideas to make traffic flow easier.

1. Ban HGVs from overtaking at busy times on busy motorways

2. Make middle lane hogging an endorsable offence. Too many people do it, and it is slowing our motorways down. They effectively lose a lane as you can't undertake.

1. Yes - again, works in Germany on the two-lane autobahns.
2. YES! Have you seen how the 4-lane M25 now has people hogging lane 3 now? And, you also have those who drive in lane 3 or 4 constantly (often Addison Lee cars, amongst the reps) as they figure it's not worth changing lanes ever.

But, I do still agree with 80mph to bring us in line with the rest of Europe.

We shouldn't need speed limits that change in bad weather, given you already know to drive to the conditions, but we have our fair share of idiots who have been brainwashed over the years that speed limits are the only thing to concentrate on abiding by. They're now used to matching the needle to the sign, in any condition and believing they must therefore be safe. After all, 'speed kills'.

Get more traffic police out to deal with the OTHER offences and you'll improve driving standards far more than worrying too much about limits on a motorway.

I presume this 80mph is only for motorways, or will it be for dual-carriageways too? That could be a problem with the difference between 60 for single-carriageways, unless they plan to raise that.

 

[Zoe]

If the speed limit was reduced to 60 mph and enforced with average speed cameras then it would most likely reduced CO2 emissions. It seems this government doesn't care about that though if they want to increase the limit to 80 mph. Actually if the limit was reduced to 56 mph then it would reduce the need for overtaking.

 

[90019]

If the speed limit was reduced to 60 mph and enforced with average speed cameras then it would most likely reduced CO2 emissions.

IMO, average speed cameras should be banned, as they cause more problems than they solve.
When you have an area of average speed cameras, you get some drivers who are near constantly watching their speedo and not paying enough attention to the road ahead of them. The last two times I've used the A77, which has average speed cameras, I've had to take evasive action both times to avoid a collision with someone not paying enough attention to the road.

 

[Zoe]

When you have an area of average speed cameras, you get some drivers who are near constantly watching their speedo and not paying enough attention to the road ahead of them.

Why not just set the cruise control to the speed limit?

 

[Nigel Cliff]

I do 35K miles a year and average close to 60MPG by never driving above 70MPH,due to the way company car mileage is calculated I make money on this as do many others so why would we want to do 80 on a regualr basis.
However if running late it would be nice to have the option

 

[90019]

Why not just set the cruise control to the speed limit?

Plenty of people don't have cruise control, myself included.

 

[radamfi]

If you do advanced driving lessons (or even normal ones) you are told to keep your eyes constantly moving, which means you would be glancing at your speedo at least every second so there is no reason not to know what speed you are doing.

 

[90019]

If you do advanced driving lessons (or even normal ones) you are told to keep your eyes constantly moving, which means you would be glancing at your speedo at least every second so there is no reason not to know what speed you are doing.

Indeed you should, but you get people who are so scared of going even 1mph over the limit in the average speed camera zone that they barely take their eyes off the speedo.

 

[Schnellzug]

I do think that driving should be recgonised as a skill, not automatically a right. I do think that there thought to be special qualifications that should be needed for driving on Motorways, and ideally they should be available only to cars above a certain standard.
Mind you, i think that "sensible" little shopping trolleys are a menace anyway, unpleasant tinny little things, and whatever they may try to claim I don't believe that they can possibly be safe.
Sorry to sound like a Clarkson.

The differential, though, would be even higher with the 56 mph or whatever it is limit for HGVs; that seems a bit archaic to me, and basically pandering to those who see Heavy Lorries as a handy scapegoat, rather than it being foolish and impatient drivers in cars that are the main cause of accidents.
(and foreign HGV drivers, who can get away with whatever they like because it's more trouble than it's worth to track down and prosecute them.)

 

[radamfi]

Strictly speaking, the speed limit for HGVs is 60 mph and for buses/coaches it is 70 mph but HGVs need a speed limiter at 90 km/h and coaches require a 100 km/h speed limiter, meaning that HGVs and coaches shouldn't be able to go faster than 56 or 62 mph respectively. When HGVs block the inside two lanes that effectively forces coaches to stay at 56 mph as they are not permitted to use the outside lane of motorways with three or more lanes.

 

[jon0844]

Why not just set the cruise control to the speed limit?

And, please, add 3 or 4mph on top so you actually do the speed limit and not your offset speedo!

56mph is an arbitrary figure that someone chose for the purpose of doing economy measurements. Hence, manufacturers need to gear things to do well for the advertising. A small engined car is going to have way different characteristics to a large engined car, like how efficient an engine is when it is putting out xx% of power.

Speed limits do not operator for economy. You can decide that by how you drive, or what car/engine/fuel you buy.

I wonder if we should apply the same logic to trains and planes to reduce fuel consumption? Funnily enough, a train will use more power at speed - so best drop the limits there too.

 

[pdq]

I tend to agree with the idea of moving the speed limit to 80, allied with more enforcement to ensure the unofficial limit doesn't creep further.

I don't see a problem with average speed cameras on motorways. Most drivers know what their cars feel like at different speeds so don't need to keep looking down. If you're that unsure of your car's dynamics, aim for 75! Or just stick with the flow...

However I think this definitely needs to happen alongside a review of speed limit signage - mainly to get rid of the 'national speed limit' (white with black diagonal line). We should go to numbers only so it's unambiguous what the limit for cars is. Drivers of HGVs and other restricted vehicles know what their limits are for different types of roads.

We also need to end the riduculous law that bans repeat markings of the 30 limit. It's crazy that councils can put repeaters up for all limits apart from 30 and the 'national' on the assumption that because there are closely spaced streetlights it's obviously 30 and if there aren't then it's 'national'.

 

[Zoe]

mainly to get rid of the 'national speed limit' (white with black diagonal line). We should go to numbers only so it's unambiguous what the limit for cars is. Drivers of HGVs and other restricted vehicles know what their limits are for different types of roads.

It's not that easy, restriciton orders would have to be made if you wanted a signed limit and this would likely be quite expensive. It would also be quite expensive if you wanted to change the limit at a later date as you'd have to change all the signs.

Strictly speaking, the speed limit for HGVs is 60 mph and for buses/coaches it is 70 mph but HGVs need a speed limiter at 90 km/h and coaches require a 100 km/h speed limiter, meaning that HGVs and coaches shouldn't be able to go faster than 56 or 62 mph respectively. When HGVs block the inside two lanes that effectively forces coaches to stay at 56 mph as they are not permitted to use the outside lane of motorways with three or more lanes.

Where there are only two lanes there can be delays due to the calibration of the limiters when a truck doing 56 mph overtakes a truck doing 55 mph.