Speed restriction past Trowse Junction

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90sWereBetter

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There appears to be some sort of speed restriction on the GEML for trains heading towards Diss, between Trowse Junction and the point where the line crosses over the Breckland Line. It's been there for quite some time, to the point that almost every MK3 set I've had in the last six months has arrived late at Diss. Most of the time the service does recover the late running by the time it reaches Ipswich, but sometimes it doesn't.

Any idea what the speed restriction is for?
 
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ge-gn

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There appears to be some sort of speed restriction on the GEML for trains heading towards Diss, between Trowse Junction and the point where the line crosses over the Breckland Line. It's been there for quite some time, to the point that almost every MK3 set I've had in the last six months has arrived late at Diss. Most of the time the service does recover the late running by the time it reaches Ipswich, but sometimes it doesn't.

Any idea what the speed restriction is for?

Due to the condition of a bridge over Long John Hill. I think it's a 20mph. Been there ages. Over a year.
 

306024

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The bridge over Long John Hill (that's the name of the road) is not in the best of repair. So bad that the road underneath appears to be closed, and a 20mph TSR imposed on the railway. There is a possession over August Bank Holiday to try to sort it out, hopefully that will allow the TSR to be removed eventually.

Oops, got beaten to the answer.
 

Class 170101

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More possessions than just the Bank Holiday one referred to above. Its closed underneath and apparently its a popular route for school kids and adds a detour of around 1 mile as a result. Consequently MPs are involved etc etc.
 
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TheEdge

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Long John Hill has been closed for ages now. I think there was masonary coming down on the road. Most recent plan I've heard is a demolition of the existing bridge and a new replacement, possibly don't in a similar way to Cow Lane in Reading.

I for one am against it. Once it re-opens the quiet country lane I live on will become a rat run again :(
 

najaB

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It's been there for quite some time, to the point that almost every MK3 set I've had in the last six months has arrived late at Diss.
If they've been late it isn't because of the TSR - it would have been factored into the timetable by now.

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Tio Terry

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Many years ago, in BR days, there was a plan to change the layout at Trowse Lower Junction such that the Norwich- London services would continue on the Cambridge lines then turn left and rise up to the end of the cutting at Caistor so cutting off the route up Trowse Bank to Trowse Upper Junction and avoiding using the Harford Viaduct. It was calculated this would save some 7 minutes on the Norwich-Ipswich journey.

Bearing in mind the "Norwich in Ninety" aspirations I wonder if the need to spend a lot of money on this bridge could trigger a rethink on this old plan? It would also avoid any future expenditure on Harford Viaduct.
 

TheEdge

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Many years ago, in BR days, there was a plan to change the layout at Trowse Lower Junction such that the Norwich- London services would continue on the Cambridge lines then turn left and rise up to the end of the cutting at Caistor so cutting off the route up Trowse Bank to Trowse Upper Junction and avoiding using the Harford Viaduct. It was calculated this would save some 7 minutes on the Norwich-Ipswich journey.

Bearing in mind the "Norwich in Ninety" aspirations I wonder if the need to spend a lot of money on this bridge could trigger a rethink on this old plan? It would also avoid any future expenditure on Harford Viaduct.

I doubt that. Don't know what was there when this was planned but there is a fair bit the way. Various buildings, a substation, the A47. Also looks like it would either interfere with or go very close to Caistor Roman Town which may throw up various issues.
 

306024

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If they've been late it isn't because of the TSR - it would have been factored into the timetable by now.

In reality all you could do is move the [1] minute recovery time approaching Ipswich to be approaching Diss. Then the speed restriction gets removed and you've wasted the recovery time should another TSR be imposed nearer Ipswich. Not really worth the effort.

Many years ago, in BR days, there was a plan to change the layout at Trowse Lower Junction such that the Norwich- London services would continue on the Cambridge lines then turn left and rise up to the end of the cutting at Caistor so cutting off the route up Trowse Bank to Trowse Upper Junction and avoiding using the Harford Viaduct. It was calculated this would save some 7 minutes on the Norwich-Ipswich journey.

Bearing in mind the "Norwich in Ninety" aspirations I wonder if the need to spend a lot of money on this bridge could trigger a rethink on this old plan? It would also avoid any future expenditure on Harford Viaduct.

Save 7 minutes? Someone must have pressed the wrong button. That would make Norwich to Diss 10 minutes for 20 miles. Unless I've misunderstood.
 
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Bald Rick

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Save 7 minutes? Someone must have pressed the wrong button. That would make Norwich to Diss 10 minutes for 20 miles. Unless I've misunderstood.

More worryingly, it would have done Norwich to Swainsthorpe in -1 minute. :oops:
 

najaB

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In reality all you could do is move the [1] minute recovery time approaching Ipswich to be approaching Diss. Then the speed restriction gets removed and you've wasted the recovery time should another TSR be imposed nearer Ipswich. Not really worth the effort.
I suppose it depends on how late 90sWereBetter's trains have been but I would've thought that if it's been six months plus, with no prospect of being fixed any time soon, NR would have modified the timetable to take the TSR into consideration.

Understand what you're saying though if the TSR was likely to be fixed early in the timetable period.
 

306024

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More worryingly, it would have done Norwich to Swainsthorpe in -1 minute. :oops:

You obviously haven't seen the new rolling stock strategy for the Liverpool St - Norwich services. A fleet of Tardises (or whatever the plural is) will be ordered. At a stroke you've met the Norwich - Swainsthorpe timing, achieved Norwich in -90, and solved all the overcrowding ;)

I suppose it depends on how late 90sWereBetter's trains have been but I would've thought that if it's been six months plus, with no prospect of being fixed any time soon, NR would have modified the timetable to take the TSR into consideration.

Understand what you're saying though if the TSR was likely to be fixed early in the timetable period.

Not easy to modify the timetable in this instance anyway. The standard freightliner paths follow the Norwich trains from Ipswich as well, alter that and you rewrite much of the timetable.

If the train is late at Ipswich it is more likely due to exceeding the tight off peak station dwell times at Diss and Stowmarket rather than the running times.
 
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louis97

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If they've been late it isn't because of the TSR - it would have been factored into the timetable by now.

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Highly unlikely to of been factored into the timetable, especially given the amount of engineering allowance in the timetable. There is no additional allowances in the area, and it would be highly unlikely the TOCs and FOCs would agree to an increase in the sectional running times.
 

najaB

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Highly unlikely to of been factored into the timetable, especially given the amount of engineering allowance in the timetable. There is no additional allowances in the area, and it would be highly unlikely the TOCs and FOCs would agree to an increase in the sectional running times.
Well, I suppose it depends on how late the services have been. If they are consistently very late then it is in the TOC's interest to have the timetable adjusted so that they don't get inundated with complaints from their passengers. If it's a couple of minutes here or there then not so much.
 

306024

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Last night we only lost one minute to Diss, and were right time Ipswich. I can't recall if the 20mph TSR is where the line speed is 40mph or 55mph, but it doesn't cost that much time in itself. NR won't want to start the Network Change procedure for something that is not going to be permanent.
 

90sWereBetter

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I suppose it depends on how late 90sWereBetter's trains have been but I would've thought that if it's been six months plus, with no prospect of being fixed any time soon, NR would have modified the timetable to take the TSR into consideration.

Understand what you're saying though if the TSR was likely to be fixed early in the timetable period.

The trains that I've been on are usually pulling into the platform at Diss at xx:17 which is when they're timetabled to depart, so they're around 2 minutes down when departing. As I say, they've usually recovered the time and arrive at Ipswich at xx:41.
 

najaB

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Last night we only lost one minute to Diss, and were right time Ipswich. I can't recall if the 20mph TSR is where the line speed is 40mph or 55mph, but it doesn't cost that much time in itself. NR won't want to start the Network Change procedure for something that is not going to be permanent.
Ah, okay. I didn't realise it was such a small loss of time. I was thinking it was regularly five or ten minutes.
 

Bald Rick

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Ah, okay. I didn't realise it was such a small loss of time. I was thinking it was regularly five or ten minutes.

A short 20TSR on a 125mph line only costs 3 mins. And this isn't 125!
 

dk1

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The current 20mph TSR at Long John Hill is only costing me around 90secs delay & it is still possible to arrive Ipswich early. The problem in the last fortnight or so has been another 50mph ESR at Newton Flotman & the 20mph ESR at Burston both on the UP. These have been costing a further 5-6 minutes but have both along with the 90mph ESR at Haughley been removed.
 
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