SPT Daytripper ticket to be withdrawn

Stan Drews

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The SPT daytripper ticket is finally going to be culled.

Daytripper ticket​


Please note the Daytripper ticket is being withdrawn from the end of 2021. The last day of Daytripper sales will be Friday 29 October 2021 and the last day Daytripper tickets can be used for travel will be Friday 31 December 2021. Please see the Frequently Asked Questions for more details
The Daytripper ticket gives you unlimited* travel for one day by ScotRail, Subway, most buses**, and some ferries in the Strathclyde region.
Daytripper tickets are available for one adult and up to two children, or for two adults and up to four children
 
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Stan Drews

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That is a very poor choice indeed, and the reasons given are poor too.
The concept may be okay, but the 1980s technology still in use for it, is laughable in 2021.

There wont be much of a market for a family ticket, once Scottish children can travel for free, and I understand SPT are planning to update the Zonecard, which may allow for a more appropriate 21st century day ticket option for adults only.
 

carlberry

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The concept may be okay, but the 1980s technology still in use for it, is laughable in 2021.

There wont be much of a market for a family ticket, once Scottish children can travel for free, and I understand SPT are planning to update the Zonecard, which may allow for a more appropriate 21st century day ticket option for adults only.
I think most people who want to get a day travel card wouldn't be concerned if the technology was 21st century, 1980s or 15th century; they'd just want the facility to buy one so the SPT withdrawing it is surely a major backward step!
 

Stan Drews

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I think most people who want to get a day travel card wouldn't be concerned if the technology was 21st century, 1980s or 15th century; they'd just want the facility to buy one so the SPT withdrawing it is surely a major backward step!
The daytripper is a family ticket. There isn’t an adult version. Why would you want to buy a family ticket, when your children can travel for free?
 

carlberry

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The daytripper is a family ticket. There isn’t an adult version. Why would you want to buy a family ticket, when your children can travel for free?
I could only go by the statement in the quote that said 'Daytripper tickets are available for one adult and up to two children' which appears to suggest that one adult can buy one, however if you say they cant then the description is confusing.
 

Class320

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The daytripper is a family ticket. There isn’t an adult version. Why would you want to buy a family ticket, when your children can travel for free?

There is an Adult version, it's the one adult and up to two children. There's nothing on the ticket that says you have to have a child with you.
 

JonathanH

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One of the major bus operators in the area already didn't participate. It seems the use is in decline. Ultimately, it doesn't seem to be in any operator's interest to participate as any given operator earns less from Daytripper than they do from their own tickets.

There is a bit of a veiled message of 'the only users of this ticket are people who we don't really want to offer this ticket to'. Was it really primarily aimed at families? There was never a requirement for children to travel.
Is there another day ticket covering all modes in the SPT area?
No, but as discussed in other threads, with contactless payment on buses one of the reasons for there to need to be multimodal tickets no longer exists. Revenue apportionment is much easier if a payment is made to each operator rather than it having to go through a clearing house.
The daytripper is a family ticket. There isn’t an adult version. Why would you want to buy a family ticket, when your children can travel for free?
There has never been any requirement to have accompanying children - children just happen to be able to accompany an adult at no charge.
 
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Scotrail314209

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I honestly think Strathclyde would do well with an Oyster style zone thing. London manages pretty well with it already.

Would mean the public transport would need to be under one banner though.
 

Bletchleyite

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No, but as discussed in other threads, with contactless payment on buses one of the reasons for there to need to be multimodal tickets no longer exists. Revenue apportionment is much easier if a payment is made to each operator rather than it having to go through a clearing house.

I believe Greater Manchester keeps it simple - the selling operator keeps it all and it evens out that way.

Still a huge, huge step backwards for those making multi operator journeys. A TfL style daily cap would be a reasonable replacement but I'm not aware of such a thing existing nor being planned.
 

JonathanH

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A TfL style daily cap would be a reasonable replacement but I'm not aware of such a thing existing nor being planned.
That only works because TfL has the same equipment on all buses and sufficient volume to justify the central processing and integration with other modes. Dream on if anyone thinks that is happening anywhere else in the near term.
Still a huge, huge step backwards for those making multi operator journeys.
Isn't that the point though? One of the justifications was that numbers making such journeys were diminishing - ie 'normal' passengers weren't making multi operator journeys over the Strathclyde region that justified spending the economic cost of the ticket.
 

Bletchleyite

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That only works because TfL has the same equipment on all buses and sufficient volume to justify the central processing and integration with other modes. Dream on if anyone thinks that is happening anywhere else in the near term.

Even with a trend towards regulation? And Scotland is even more pro-regulation than England.

Isn't that the point though. One of the justifications was that numbers making such journeys were diminishing.

Perhaps insufficient promotion of the flexibility of the ticket?
 

johncrossley

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And Scotland is even more pro-regulation than England.

For a long time there was the issue of Souter donating the SNP, which meant the end of proposals to end deregulation. Are there actually any concrete developments regarding franchising in Scotland? They seem to be behind England on that front if they are.
 

JonathanH

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Perhaps insufficient promotion of the flexibility of the ticket?
Or just lots of other options that work out cheaper and are less hassle - eg concessionary travel gives free buses and £1 fares on the train for seniors, children now going free - the market is no longer there for something which costs £13, even though that isn't probably isn't anywhere near the commercial cost of the ticket.

You are right that a capping structure would work better but bus operators are already developing their own contactless capping. Do you cap at the price of one operators ticket first, then at another's and then at the multi-modal rate? That sounds highly complex to administer and ensure fair distribution of revenue.
 

Bletchleyite

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Or just lots of other options that work out cheaper and are less hassle - eg concessionary travel gives free buses and £1 fares on the train for seniors, children now going free - the market is no longer there for something which costs £13, even though that isn't probably isn't anywhere near the commercial cost of the ticket.

£13 is certainly expensive - that is likely the problem - the comparable Greater Manchester one is £10 (all-modes System One day ticket), and on Merseyside the equivalent All Areas Saveaway is just £5.55. Only the London Travelcard is comparably priced.

They appear to have priced themselves out of the market, but presumably fixing that is in the Too Hard pile, as you might upset two big Scottish taxpayers, i.e. Stagecoach and First.
 

johncrossley

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You can go a long way on a DayTripper, for example Glasgow to Girvan. But that's part of the problem. A lot of people probably would just like a day ticket that works on buses and trains in the Glasgow area only. There is no such thing at the moment.
 

Bletchleyite

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You can go a long way on a DayTripper, for example Glasgow to Girvan. But that's part of the problem. A lot of people probably would just like a day ticket that works on buses and trains in the Glasgow area only. There is no such thing at the moment.

Yes, that's true, I was going to post that the London Travelcard covered a bigger area, but I don't think it actually does.

It would make sense for the ticket to be zonal, as per Merseyside's tickets. I would agree that a Glasgow city only multimodal ticket at the right price (somewhere around £6-8 or so I guess) would sell reasonably well provided bus operators didn't try to hide its existence. That said, bus operators do see the commercial point in surprisingly reasonably-priced day tickets covering very large areas, e.g. the Stagecoach East Gold Dayrider, costing about £12, which covers a vast swathe of the Home Counties (so comparable with the SPT area too, albeit single operator).
 

Mcr Warrior

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Does the all zone version of the SPT weekly Zone Card (priced at £75.10) which is valid on rail, bus and the Subway, cover the exact same area as an SPT Daytripper, or are there areas of non-overlap?
 

Whisky Papa

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There has never been any requirement to have accompanying children - children just happen to be able to accompany an adult at no charge.
Yes, I remember being a bit miffed when we used them on holiday in Largs and Ayr in 1999, as despite having only one child with us my wife and I required two family tickets - and by default, one of us was travelling without any accompanying children.

Although not as miffed as the year before when we had been forced to pay for the three of us separately because, according to the lady at the National Trust booth on Brownsea Island, the cheaper family ticket was only available for groups with two or more children!
 

Bletchleyite

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Although not as miffed as the year before when we had been forced to pay for the three of us separately because, according to the lady at the National Trust booth on Brownsea Island, the cheaper family ticket was only available for groups with two or more children!

To be fair the Family and Friends Railcard has a similar issue.

I also recall going into a Greggs once and being refused the discount for buying 5 pasties because only 4 were left (or something like that), and 4 cost more than 5. Madness.
 

Class320

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Yes, I remember being a bit miffed when we used them on holiday in Largs and Ayr in 1999, as despite having only one child with us my wife and I required two family tickets - and by default, one of us was travelling without any accompanying children.

Or you could have just bought the 2 Adults and up to 4 children day tripper.
 

XAM2175

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I'm sure it didn't help that there were only a few sales channels for it - my favourite being the utterly ridiculous online store that's only open from 4pm Friday to noon Tuesday.

The notion of it being unnecessary with the extension of free bus travel also ignores the fact that only people ordinarily resident in Scotland will be eligible.
 

JonathanH

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The notion of it being unnecessary with the extension of free bus travel also ignores the fact that only people ordinarily resident in Scotland will be eligible.
Whilst that is true, it would appear reasonable for Strathclyde Partnership for Transport to take a view on who they are targeting this ticket towards.

The Wikipedia entry about this ticket says "The ticket is heavily subsidised by the Passenger Transport Executive and addresses social needs (e.g., to let low-income families without access to a car to take a trip to the beach)." In that circumstance, it seems entirely reasonable to not have any concern about people from outside the area.
 

Starmill

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The key thing is that the Scottish Government is desperate to cut funding to public transport because the bill has risen enormously because of the pandemic. Therefore everything is under review. The concessionary travel on rail bus and ferry (the entitlement will probably stay, but the remuneration has been looked at closely), the subsidy required through the contracts and the range of products on sale.

That's what this really is about. PAYG won't help though Scottish Government cut costs so it probably won't be forthcoming any time soon. And if it causes people to use public transport less abd drive more, emitting more atmospheric carbon and air pollution, then that's just the price the government are willing to pay.

The Wikipedia entry about this ticket says "The ticket is heavily subsidised by the Passenger Transport Executive and addresses social needs (e.g., to let low-income families without access to a car to take a trip to the beach)." In that circumstance, it seems entirely reasonable to not have any concern about people from outside the area.
That's a quote some random person has just written themselves with no source.

To be fair the Family and Friends Railcard has a similar issue.

I also recall going into a Greggs once and being refused the discount for buying 5 pasties because only 4 were left (or something like that), and 4 cost more than 5. Madness.
I was once at a well known pizza chain that does a well known set menu voucher - three courses from the selection for £14.95 on any party size.

Our party had a couple of people needing to leave somewhat urgently after their mains were finished so they didn't have time to order a dessert. The staff refused to honour the £14.95 because a dessert hadn't been added to the bill and wouldn't put them down for us when asked. As a result the people who had had to leave were billed at more than £20 each for the starter and the main separately. If we'd realised that the restaurant were going to be so unhelpful about it, we'd have of course ordered this desserts anyway and let them go in the bin. The worst thing is the staff could have probably legitimately eaten the desserts themselves and also offered us the lower price but for whatever reason the company are difficult about it. At least we now know and can avoid in future.
 
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johncrossley

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I was once at a well known pizza chain that does a well known set menu voucher - three courses from the selection for £14.95 on any party size.

Our party had a couple of people needing to leave somewhat urgently after their mains were finished so they didn't have time to order a dessert. The staff refused to honour the £14.95 because a dessert hadn't been added to the bill and wouldn't put them down for us when asked. As a result the people who had had to leave were billed at more than £20 each for the starter and the main separately. If we'd realised that the restaurant were going to be so unhelpful about it, we'd have of course ordered this desserts anyway and let them go in the bin. The worst thing is the staff could have probably legitimately eaten the desserts themselves and also offered us the lower price but for whatever reason the company are difficult about it. At least we now know and can avoid in future.

One pizza chain has an offer for 50% off if you spend over £50. So I need to buy lots of extra sides that will just go in the bin, otherwise the bill would be over £30.
 

Bletchleyite

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Whilst that is true, it would appear reasonable for Strathclyde Partnership for Transport to take a view on who they are targeting this ticket towards.

The Wikipedia entry about this ticket says "The ticket is heavily subsidised by the Passenger Transport Executive and addresses social needs (e.g., to let low-income families without access to a car to take a trip to the beach)." In that circumstance, it seems entirely reasonable to not have any concern about people from outside the area.

But then why doesn't SPT think about the offering of an all-modes off peak day ticket as something that is just a natural part of the offering of an integrated urban/suburban transport system? There are very few systems around the world that don't have a ticket of this kind - certainly all the UK PTEs and TfL do, as do all the German Verkehrsverbuende.

One pizza chain has an offer for 50% off if you spend over £50. So I need to buy lots of extra sides that will just go in the bin, otherwise the bill would be over £30.

I have a local BBQ food delivery place that has that sort of thing, and so I usually order extra stuff like pots of pulled pork/chilli and the likes which can be eaten for a different meal with rice or pasta added, and so no waste.

What I have come across, though, analogous to the F&F Railcard, is restaurants offering two for the price of one but only if there is an actual second person, so a person eating alone can't have two meals.

I'm sure it didn't help that there were only a few sales channels for it - my favourite being the utterly ridiculous online store that's only open from 4pm Friday to noon Tuesday.

The notion of it being unnecessary with the extension of free bus travel also ignores the fact that only people ordinarily resident in Scotland will be eligible.

To process orders with reduced staffing levels during COVID-19 restrictions, the times when you can order tickets are restricted as follows:

  • To renew your ZoneCard, you must place your order between Friday 16:00 and Tuesday 12:00 (midday).

  • Your ticket will be dispatched on the Tuesday, and ticket validity will start the following Sunday (all ZoneCard tickets start on a Sunday and end on a Saturday).

  • The ZoneCard online store will be closed outwith these times.

How utterly bizarre! Surely the site could be open at any time clearly stating they would only be dispatched each Tuesday.
 
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johncrossley

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But then why doesn't SPT think about the offering of an all-modes off peak day ticket as something that is just a natural part of the offering of an integrated urban/suburban transport system? There are very few systems around the world that don't have a ticket of this kind - certainly all the UK PTEs and TfL do, as do all the German Verkehrsverbuende.

I've always assumed it is because the operators in the Glasgow area don't want it.
 

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