Staff Uniforms

[Bromley boy]

I've experienced cancelled services because the driver wasn't allowed to wear his union tie.

I call bullsh*t on that one!

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I call bullsh*t on that one!

I am sure I remember in the mid-late 1980s, a TOC did go on strike because the staff did not like having to wear a certain shade of waist coats or slipovers?

 

[driver_m]

I am sure I remember in the mid-late 1980s, a TOC did go on strike because the staff did not like having to wear a certain shade of waist coats or slipovers?

TOC's didn't exist in the 80s. It was BR.

 

[pt_mad]

The uniforms are not just about appearance - although a smart uniform gives the public the impression that the company actually gives a damn. A rag bag Fred Karno's Army style wouldn't really inspire confidence. How would you rate an airline if you saw an unkempt pilot in flip flops and a shell suit heading in to the cockpit?

But what about customers who don't respect people who look like authority figures in posh uniforms? People who perhaphs would feel staff were more approachable or on their level of they dressed more casually like in polo necks rather than posh suits?

There are believe it or not some passengers who don't like staff to have any authority or be dressed as such as they don't like authority figures. Big groups going out for drinks can be one. Or large groups of teenagers etc. on stations for example who are not going to respect the instruction of staff in posh suits because they look like they have some clout on the railway. Perhaphs in more casual uniform like polos they'd feel less like the railway was pushing authority as much and more that the staff are more on their level in terms of approachable and not trying to be authoritative? And also the staff aren't going to stand out as much like a sore thumb for looking typically uncool, nerdy or out of place in the area compared to how most other passengers are dressed. Like someone in a posh suit and waistcoat at Saltburn where the wear in the town is probably more likely to be casual or industrial wear polos etc.

Like a Saturday night in Doncaster. Every passenger dressed smart casual, most going out for nights out, and staff at the station in posh suits. Smart cas would be better suited imo.

 

[Bromley boy]

I am sure I remember in the mid-late 1980s, a TOC did go on strike because the staff did not like having to wear a certain shade of waist coats or slipovers?

We had to threaten strike action recently when they threatened to introduce top-hats for all grades, and TOC-branded bandanas and pink epaulettes for drivers.

We soon saw that nonsense off.

 

[richa2002]

But what about customers who don't respect people who look like authority figures in posh uniforms? People who perhaphs would feel staff were more approachable or on their level of they dressed more casually like in polo necks rather than posh suits?

I'd suggest they need to grow up...!

 

[pt_mad]

I'd suggest they need to grow up...!

Unfortunately though there are a heck of a lot. Enough to make members of staff feel intimidated just walking by such a group alone and ever so much more of a target with their clip on tie and wastecoat on a Saturday night than they would be in a less formal uniform where they don't absolutely standout like someone going to a job interview.

It may be the perception from some passengers that all staff are ticket checkers out to inspect their movements at every moment (even if in actual fact they arent connected to ticket duties), I'm not sure, but some folk just don't like rail staff, and a dodgy uniform is just another excuse to point and laugh at a member of staff with their mates while the people making fun are dressed casually or fashionably. The staff don't have any choice they have to wear whatever clobber that is chosen for them regardless of whether it's fashionable or fits the situation.

It's like at sports events. If all spectators, essentially customers, were dressed in sports attire or smart casual gear then the stewards would probably be in polo necks and hi Vis vests. It's doubtful they'd be in full 4 piece suits shouting instructions at celebrating sports fans at say the rugby.

And the atmosphere at stations on weekend evenings can be compirable to that of a darts tournament at times.

 

[EM2]

We had to threaten strike action recently when they threatened to introduce top-hats for all grades, and TOC-branded bandanas and pink epaulettes for drivers.

We soon saw that nonsense off.

I've heard rumours that at one station, the management want a uniform in the style of Victorian stationmasters. You can imagine how well that has gone down!

 

[pt_mad]

I've heard rumours that at one station, the management want a uniform in the style of Victorian stationmasters. You can imagine how well that has gone down!

Current GWR uniform ain't it ?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

But what about customers who don't respect people who look like authority figures in posh uniforms? People who perhaphs would feel staff were more approachable or on their level of they dressed more casually like in polo necks rather than posh suits?

.

It's not a social club it's a means of transport of which they are 'in charge' and should appear so - safety instructions are not open to discussion or a friendly chat they need to be dispensed by someone who looks the part.

 

[Bromley boy]

I've heard rumours that at one station, the management want a uniform in the style of Victorian stationmasters. You can imagine how well that has gone down!

I’ll keep a look out for toppers and three piece suits next time I go through Northfleet .

 

[pt_mad]

It's not a social club it's a means of transport of which they are 'in charge' and should appear so - safety instructions are not open to discussion or a friendly chat they need to be dispensed by someone who looks the part.

Drivers are also in charge and they wear polos so can't see why others couldn't really. There are lots of people who give safety instructions who don't wear a collar tie and waistcoat and they still look the part. The police for one. They've mostly done away with itand the uniform appears more casual than before and their uniform doesnt appear as militant as it did in the 80s and 90s.

 

[EM2]

I’ll keep a look out for toppers and three piece suits next time I go through Northfleet .

I do commute, you know
But it's (thankfully) not my station, and not my grade!

 

[HowardGWR]

I see photos of staff on Japanese Railways and see that standard as being the one to aim for. It doesn't need hats though, as airlines have recognised. What's wrong with airline standards of dress? It exudes competence.

 

[driver_m]

I see photos of staff on Japanese Railways and see that standard as being the one to aim for. It doesn't need hats though, as airlines have recognised. What's wrong with airline standards of dress? It exudes competence.

Do you.think so? I think the trolley dollies of both sexes look ridiculous in some of the uniforms they have to wear. I do remember BMIbaby uniform and the blokes looked like they were going for a Victorian era elephant shooting party. There's a current uniform out there for male stewards which is a burgundy suit which looks horrendous. Times have changed and polos are the standard for me now IMO.

 

[virgintrain1]

Unfortunately though there are a heck of a lot. Enough to make members of staff feel intimidated just walking by such a group alone and ever so much more of a target with their clip on tie and wastecoat on a Saturday night than they would be in a less formal uniform where they don't absolutely standout like someone going to a job interview.

It may be the perception from some passengers that all staff are ticket checkers out to inspect their movements at every moment (even if in actual fact they arent connected to ticket duties), I'm not sure, but some folk just don't like rail staff, and a dodgy uniform is just another excuse to point and laugh at a member of staff with their mates while the people making fun are dressed casually or fashionably. The staff don't have any choice they have to wear whatever clobber that is chosen for them regardless of whether it's fashionable or fits the situation.

It's like at sports events. If all spectators, essentially customers, were dressed in sports attire or smart casual gear then the stewards would probably be in polo necks and hi Vis vests. It's doubtful they'd be in full 4 piece suits shouting instructions at celebrating sports fans at say the rugby.

And the atmosphere at stations on weekend evenings can be compirable to that of a darts tournament at times.

Sorry but I disagree. I've never felt intimidated by my uniform the fact that we are dressed smart on weekends and evenings helps identify you as at work and the only thing I've ever had said about my uniform is 'don't I look smart'.

 

[_toommm_]

I think the old Northern franchise had the perfect mix - the purple/navy waistcoats and tie looked perfect, and fit in well with the livery. It made guards sharp and tidy and it looked like a nice uniform.

Au contraire, the new Arriva uniform doesn't fit with the trains, and the lack of ties just makes it look sloppy IMO. I'm all for comfortable (I have to wear a crappy company issued nylon shirt and it's awful in this weather), but formality is something key for OBS, and at least semi smart dress for drivers.

 

[dk1]

To be fair it's never been that strict on the tie rule for drivers at my TOC. If we say the cab is too hot or we feel uncomfortable then who on earth is going to argue with us or insist we wear it? Just wouldn't happen. On the subject of union ties, we have an agreement for drivers who choose to wear one to have an ASLEF one round their neck instead. Was quite amusing when one of the few guards we have in our union came to work wearing his & was promptly informed by conductor management that this allowance clearly states it is ONLY for the driving grade

 

[PudseyBearHST]

We get issued with the ‘DRIVER’ lanyards which should prevent passengers getting confused about who’s who
But a lot of Drivers wear the ASLEF lanyard. A few even wear a completely random lanyard. E.g. <insert football club name> lanyard.

With regards to ties, some people don’t wear a tie while others wear the ASLEF tie. A few even wear the British Rail ties.

To be honest, there are a few Drivers that wear there own clothes. Some make it discrete- e.g. wear dark blue trousers and polo shirt- while others don’t make it discrete at all and will wear something completely random. They are usually ex-BR staff with decades of service so no-one says anything to them

 

[Rail Blues]

Do you.think so? I think the trolley dollies of both sexes look ridiculous in some of the uniforms they have to wear. I do remember BMIbaby uniform and the blokes looked like they were going for a Victorian era elephant shooting party. There's a current uniform out there for male stewards which is a burgundy suit which looks horrendous. Times have changed and polos are the standard for me now IMO.

It is almost like the clueless berks in management have no idea about their underling' s jobs when they propose these absurd uniform, having been on the receiving end of this way of thinking, I'd rather train staff wear something that is well made and comfortable to work in. If dressing them up like a cinema commissionaire or a deposed General in a banana Republic is unlikely to achieve that. Imagine being trussed up in that outfit over the past two weeks, you'd be more focused on not keeling over in a dead faint rather than giving good customer service.

 

[pt_mad]

Sorry but I disagree. I've never felt intimidated by my uniform the fact that we are dressed smart on weekends and evenings helps identify you as at work and the only thing I've ever had said about my uniform is 'don't I look smart'.

If you're based at an East London or Northern suburb station (example) what large group of late teens etc is going to say how smart you look to each other when you walk by? It depends where you work and the kind of customer that is typical in the area. Where the local area is rough, which is the sort of thing I am talking about, say somewhere on Merseyside on a Saturday night at a single staffed station, it's not inviting to walk past a large group who have had a few by yourself in the platform to pick the litter up. Standing out so much by wearing clip on tie, baggy trousers and waistcoat just makes you stand out as militant looking staff ever so more imo. Polo neck and well fitting trousers imo would make that kind of thing ever more comfortable as you'd feel you fit in more with the type of customer there and wouldn't be the only one the whole weekend evenings turn seen wearing a tie. Maybe it's different between the genders as well I don't know. If a lady member of staff walks by a large group who've had too many, in the circumstances described, wearing air hostess type attire there's a chances she's going to get wolf whistled. Polo neck and jumper less likely imo. It just excentuates the chance of standing out and some people think staff are fair game as they aren't allowed to answer back to rudeness.

It is almost like the clueless berks in management have no idea about their underling' s jobs when they propose these absurd uniform, having been on the receiving end of this way of thinking, I'd rather train staff wear something that is well made and comfortable to work in. If dressing them up like a cinema commissionaire or a deposed General in a banana Republic is unlikely to achieve that. Imagine being trussed up in that outfit over the past two weeks, you'd be more focused on not keeling over in a dead faint rather than giving good customer service.

I still find it hard to believe some tocs tell you you must ask permission to take your tie off on each individual day when it's this hot. And at some locations it has to be noted down in logs with times.

Surely adults are grown up enough to decide when a tie is appropriate and comfortable for them individually based on the weather?


Perhaps as time goes on and the millennials become the middle aged we'll see more casual and less ties as they'll be the ones making the decisions I suppose as more become management. As this is what a lot of them grew up with. Look at the millions and millions watching love island at the moment. The image on there is what is perceived as cool and smart fashionable by youngsters. And they dress up smart every night with not a tie to be seen. It just isn't the idea of being smart to wear a tie for the upcoming working generation. The most formal would be an open button and smart trousers imo. Go back to the early 80s and before and people were wearing suit and tie in nightclubs. Not likely to see that now.

 

[LowLevel]

I take my tie off when I choose when it's hot.

As for wearing a shirt, tie and trousers and attracting some perceived attention because of it, I reckon it's a load of rubbish. Our uniform is a 3 piece with optional waistcoat. I work some of the roughest routes in the country and I've never had any problems and neither have any of my colleagues mentioned them.

We are meant to stand out, that's the point.

I wouldn't want to wear a polo shirt as I find a top pocket very useful.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I take my tie off when I choose when it's hot.

As for wearing a shirt, tie and trousers and attracting some perceived attention because of it, I reckon it's a load of rubbish. Our uniform is a 3 piece with optional waistcoat. I work some of the roughest routes in the country and I've never had any problems and neither have any of my colleagues mentioned them.

We are meant to stand out, that's the point.

I wouldn't want to wear a polo shirt as I find a top pocket very useful.

Totally agree. I think that those who feel their uniform creates awkward situations don't have a problem with the uniform, they have a problem with their own attitude, either towards the whole concept of wearing uniform or the perception that wearing uniform automatically bestows authority upon the wearer. As you say uniformed front-line staff are absolutely meant to stand out but when dealing with members of the public the key is treating people as people without pre-conceptions guiding your actions. But equally some managers don't understand this point either!

 

[dk1]

All Greater Anglia staff have been given permission to wear England football shirts at work tomorrow if they so wish.

 

[tankmc]

I think the rail industry needs to look at airlines.

I used to work for an Airline and our uniform was checked every time I arrived at work. Even jewellery, hairstyles and facial hair had standards. Anything that was not standard you was asked to remove or given a warning. Nothing additional was allowed, no clips, no badges or buttons. Even your watch had to be non-descript. It was all listed in a guide we were given when we joined.

While this seems extreme, it meant there was no if and buts from anyone. It also made the whole team look incredibly smart, made us stand out from passengers and look like we had authority. It just elevates the experience to have the crew who are smart than wearing a scruffy polo and baggy trousers.

What I will say though is our uniform was very good quality. We were provided with everything from our bags and coats down to a woolly hat for winter. If anything broke it was replaced but in the 5 years, I worked there very little needed replacing most of the time. The uniform was also tested 3 months with staff members prior to been rolled out. Once it was rolled out we all had a fitting so we got the correct size.

I think for frontline staff its essential to have a cohesive and smart appearance. I agree drivers should be allowed to wear a polo shirt and smart trousers as they are not customer facing.

 

[Eccles1983]

When airlines and planes get to the same temp as a non air conditioned cab or train I might agree with you.

Or cabs get full air con.

Oh and add some steps at any place a train might stop, as wearing all that smart stuff wont last long after clambering on and off units.

Our conductors have been working in trains that have touched 38c in this recent heat. So a suitable uniform wouldnt be dressed up as if you are a door opener at the Savoy.

I have worn uniform all of my working life. The yearning of people to keep tradition is outweighed by practical means now.

Polos, sholos, shorts and trousers are all any train crew needs. Having waistcoats and wool is frankly absurd nowadays.

I also agree with the point someone made before about approachabilty (and possible ridicule) by todays youth. They simply dont respond to authorative looking staff. It causes far more problems than it solves.

Modern society in major cities isnt anything like the heyday that some herr cant let go of.

 

[greyman42]

When airlines and planes get to the same temp as a non air conditioned cab or train I might agree with you.

Or cabs get full air con.

Oh and add some steps at any place a train might stop, as wearing all that smart stuff wont last long after clambering on and off units.

Our conductors have been working in trains that have touched 38c in this recent heat. So a suitable uniform wouldnt be dressed up as if you are a door opener at the Savoy.

I have worn uniform all of my working life. The yearning of people to keep tradition is outweighed by practical means now.

Polos, sholos, shorts and trousers are all any train crew needs. Having waistcoats and wool is frankly absurd nowadays.

I also agree with the point someone made before about approachabilty (and possible ridicule) by todays youth. They simply dont respond to authorative looking staff. It causes far more problems than it solves.

Modern society in major cities isnt anything like the heyday that some herr cant let go of.

Are you suggesting that the ambience of a Pacer cab and a 757 flight deck are not compatible?

 

[pt_mad]

I think the rail industry needs to look at airlines.

I used to work for an Airline and our uniform was checked every time I arrived at work. Even jewellery, hairstyles and facial hair had standards. Anything that was not standard you was asked to remove or given a warning. Nothing additional was allowed, no clips, no badges or buttons. Even your watch had to be non-descript. It was all listed in a guide we were given when we joined.

In today's world, this does sound quite extreme. It could perhaps even be seen as descriminate by some, as presumably judging by what you said they may be selecting for job roles based partly on appearance. Which I think might well be descriminate or illegal nowadays, officially anyway. I mean if someone had a disfigurement or a facial birth mark or wart on their face could it affect their chance of getting such a job, because if they are that particular about specifics of hairstyle and facial hair they must be judging pretty hard on appearances. And how would they treat people who are religious and choose to have their facial hair a certain way? Are exceptions made for them only but other men must wear their beard a certain way such as trimmed short?

Sounds outdated to me and I'd hazard a guess it's only a matter of time until firms operating like this face a legal challenge by soneone being fired due to their beard not being cut right and all these rules are reigned back in. People aren't as enthusiastic about the old trolley dolly type themes of the 90s airline as they once were.

 

[Rail Blues]

The other thing is that if you dress your customer facing members of staff up like tinpot dictators as some people seem to want to, don't be surprised if the more bumptious members of staff start acting like a tinpot dictator, hellbent on exercising the small amount of power they have.

 

[pt_mad]

The other thing is that if you dress your customer facing members of staff up like tinpot dictators as some people seem to want to, don't be surprised if the more bumptious members of staff start acting like a tinpot dictator, hellbent on exercising the small amount of power they have.

Can just imagine this at Morpeth station on a Saturday afternoon. Staff picking up the litter dressed as an air steward.