Stagecoach East (Bedford, Cambridge, Huntingdon and Peterborough)

[Magdalia]

Stagecoach all seems to be updated, as one would expect.

Have you found a map for the revised route 25 please? This appears to follow a different route through the Cambridge Biomedical Campus, and no longer goes through the Trumpington Clay Farm development.

Another feature of the revised route 25 is that it is now operated by busway vehicles from Fenstanton.

Whippet Coaches all seems to be on their website and on BusTimes and all tracking. The timetables, as noted above, fall somewhat short of what Cambridgeshire said they would be.

I can't remember the source, but I think that I've read that Whippet will be working their way upwards to what the Cambridge and Peterborough Combined Authority are saying, but need time to get the resources in place.

 

[markymark2000]

Stephensons have all their new services on their website and a professional looking booklet for the Newmarket area. Only the 8A, 12, 12A and 112 timetables are on BusTimes, not the 9A or 11, nothing on any of the new routes tracks. Clearly the 12 is running though as the 16 tracks and at Newmarket the buses vanish while they go through to Cambridge on the 12. A few cancellations show on their website. The 8A is interesting, I don’t know where this will come from, the obvious 9A Ely city service finishes at 16.15 but the 8A isn’t required at Cottenham until 18.56.

Stephensons timetable data comes from the Traveline database and so will be waiting for Cambridgeshire Combined Authority to update it accordingly.

Dews Coaches have taken on several routes. All on their website but nothing on BusTimes and they don’t track. Note the V1 and V3 have been renumbered 301 and the V2 is the 302.

Dews haven't updated their bus open data to take in the new services so no timetables are up.

A2B Coaches, nothing on BusTimes or their website.

A2B timetable data comes from the Traveline database so will be so will be waiting for Cambridgeshire Combined Authority to update it accordingly.

FACT - the March local service- nothing I can find anywhere.

FACT timetable data comes from the Traveline database so will be waiting for Cambridgeshire Combined Authority to update it accordingly.


Amazing that operators don't think that the law applies to them regarding BODS. Sit there burying their heads in the sand hoping that it all goes away knowing that there is no enforcement!

 

[RELL6L]

The map on BusTimes seems to show where the 25 goes. Yes it is running from Fenstanton, not interworking with anything, just coming down the main road to work for a spell then heading back. It looks like only one bus out of two ran in the evening peak both Monday and Tuesday.

I forgot Centrebus 26, that is on BusTimes and tracking. The bus seems to have got pretty late by the evening peak hour both days so far.

Stephensons 12 is now tracking but not the 112 nor are the missing timetables on BusTimes.

Grant Palmer 72 and 73 are tracking this morning. Unfortunately, as I predicted in my recent trip report, the 72 college time run into Bedford was about 20 late and the 73 is about 15 late. They are E200s so I suspect the college run was a bit crowded!

 

[Soundwave]

What is the point of the new service 25? It mirrors the Babraham Road Park and Ride to Addenbrookes and then the Citi 7/Busway between Addenbrookes and Trumpington.

From what I can see, only a very niche group of people travelling from Babraham Park and Ride to Papworth Hospital will benefit, as well at Park and Ride enthusiasts! It's a complete waste of money IMO.

Surely it would have been better to use those two buses they are paying for and link Addenbrookes with Clay Farm and then the City via Trumpington Road?

 

[Magdalia]

What is the point of the new service 25? It mirrors the Babraham Road Park and Ride to Addenbrookes and then the Citi 7/Busway between Addenbrookes and Trumpington.

From what I can see, only a very niche group of people travelling from Babraham Park and Ride to Papworth Hospital will benefit, as well at Park and Ride enthusiasts! It's a complete waste of money IMO.

Surely it would have been better to use those two buses they are paying for and link Addenbrookes with Clay Farm and then the City via Trumpington Road?

The new route 25 is much less use to local residents, it looks to me like an attempt to get more visitors to the Biomedical Campus to use Park and Ride at both Trumpington and Babraham.

The Babraham Park and Ride to Cambridge buses only ever stopped at the bus station next to the Hills Road roundabout, whereas the revised 25 stops outside all of outpatients, Rosie and Royal Papworth. For some people that will make Babraham Park and Ride a new option.

 

[RELL6L]

I've just looked at the MK1 on BusTimes - this route covers the old 81 Bedford to Luton and 99 Luton to Milton Keynes. It seems an absolute disaster, not just today but all week.

Today the first four buses, due at Bedford at 8.40 then hourly, have arrived 48, 86, 91 and 97 minutes late. The one due at 12.40 is 95 late at Clophill. The one due at 13.40 has just left Luton Airport 72 late. This has been going on all week, some vehicles arriving at Bedford over 100 minutes late - numbers one is more used to seeing in Real Time Trains! For example the first arrival at Bedford yesterday was at 10.22 - 102 late.

Clearly something not working.

To give credit etc, pretty much all journeys seem to have run. With a round trip scheduled of 4 hours 25 minutes you'd expect 5 vehicles to be out - at the moment there are 7, all double deckers. Also the working time rules - the one that left Bedford at 8.15 this morning (actual departure 8.26) isn't going to get back until about 14.15.

Grant Palmers 72 and 73 have been suffering too but they are clearly addressing it, they have swapped some vehicles during the day so delays don't accumulate, this morning the peak Bedford arrival was on time, but Friday mornings are always better.

Late evening update- the MK1 arrival at Bedford due at 18.40 arrived at 21.00! Even now the buses still out are about an hour late. Serious rethink needed!

 

[Mikey C]

I've just looked at the MK1 on BusTimes - this route covers the old 81 Bedford to Luton and 99 Luton to Milton Keynes. It seems an absolute disaster, not just today but all week.

Today the first four buses, due at Bedford at 8.40 then hourly, have arrived 48, 86, 91 and 97 minutes late. The one due at 12.40 is 95 late at Clophill. The one due at 13.40 has just left Luton Airport 72 late. This has been going on all week, some vehicles arriving at Bedford over 100 minutes late - numbers one is more used to seeing in Real Time Trains! For example the first arrival at Bedford yesterday was at 10.22 - 102 late.

Clearly something not working.

To give credit etc, pretty much all journeys seem to have run. With a round trip scheduled of 4 hours 25 minutes you'd expect 5 vehicles to be out - at the moment there are 7, all double deckers. Also the working time rules - the one that left Bedford at 8.15 this morning (actual departure 8.26) isn't going to get back until about 14.15.

Grant Palmers 72 and 73 have been suffering too but they are clearly addressing it, they have swapped some vehicles during the day so delays don't accumulate, this morning the peak Bedford arrival was on time, but Friday mornings are always better.

Late evening update- the MK1 arrival at Bedford due at 18.40 arrived at 21.00! Even now the buses still out are about an hour late. Serious rethink needed!

By chance I was walking in the Barton area on Friday, so had the dubious honour of using this new route.

Both buses, the 11:39 north from Luton and the 17:01 south from Barton were about half an hour late, though in the case of the latter it's possible that I actually got a bus 90 minutes late, as the real time bus stop information suggested another bus only a few minutes later! Either way because it was at the end of my walk, at least I could grab a quick pint when waiting

I'm confused why they would merge 2 routes like this, which goes against all the normal practice of chopping routes in 2 to make them more reliable?

 

[RELL6L]

By chance I was walking in the Barton area on Friday, so had the dubious honour of using this new route.

Both buses, the 11:39 north from Luton and the 17:01 south from Barton were about half an hour late, though in the case of the latter it's possible that I actually got a bus 90 minutes late, as the real time bus stop information suggested another bus only a few minutes later! Either way because it was at the end of my walk, at least I could grab a quick pint when waiting

I'm confused why they would merge 2 routes like this, which goes against all the normal practice of chopping routes in 2 to make them more reliable?

Indeed the 10.39 north from Luton on Friday passed through Barton at 12.30 so I suspect that it what you got. The next one was an hour later.

Yesterday was just as bad, and today -Sunday - the first bus was due back at Bedford at 10.40. Currently it is 66 minutes late!

How about Stagecoach letting Arriva have the Luton- Milton Keynes leg, in exchange for something in Newcastle that Arriva are clearly incapable of running? Or, more obviously, the 685 which isn’t as much a disaster as other ex-Jesmond routes.

 

[MikeWM]

Very good to see the '9A Ely City Service' too, even if it starts a little late (just before 9am) and finishes rather early (last trip starts before 4pm) - I guess that is going to be one driver in a minibus, with a half-hour gap for a lunch-break - getting a half-hourly 'outskirts' service back like we used to have with the 15 is very welcome, significantly better than the token 5-times-a-day trundle as an extension of the 9 that is as much as we've had for the last couple of years. Particularly useful at the moment, as both doctors surgeries in the city are currently located at the (far end of the) hospital site, which is remarkably out of the way if you live say in south-west Ely. Though it doesn't appear to go anywhere near the railway station, which may be a significant drawback.

By observation, this has indeed been one driver in a minibus, and unfortunately entirely empty every time I've seen it pass.

Perhaps not surprising though, because there is zero advertisement of it, I've no idea what the fares are or how to find that out, no information whatever at bus stops along the route, and the bus stops at the 'bus station' on Market Street still have very old and tatty 'cloud 9' adverts extolling the wonders of the very occasional rare extension of the Stagecoach 9 to visit the outskirts (which it hasn't done for some time) but nothing about the 9A.

As I recall, the initial funding for all these routes that Stagecoach no longer wanted to run was only until the end of March, which is approaching rapidly. Does anyone have any information to share about what is likely to happen after that?

 

[camflyer]

I would agree that the advertising and marketing of the new Stephenson's services has been terrible and the buses themselves look like they've been bought second hand. Zero out of 10 for effort in encouraging more people to use them.

 

[Man of Kent]

By observation, this has indeed been one driver in a minibus, and unfortunately entirely empty every time I've seen it pass.

Perhaps not surprising though, because there is zero advertisement of it, I've no idea what the fares are or how to find that out, no information whatever at bus stops along the route, and the bus stops at the 'bus station' on Market Street still have very old and tatty 'cloud 9' adverts extolling the wonders of the very occasional rare extension of the Stagecoach 9 to visit the outskirts (which it hasn't done for some time) but nothing about the 9A.

As I recall, the initial funding for all these routes that Stagecoach no longer wanted to run was only until the end of March, which is approaching rapidly. Does anyone have any information to share about what is likely to happen after that?

I understood that the Cambridgeshire & Peterborough Combined Authority has added a precept to local council tax, which will be specifically used to fund bus services - it hopes it will raise around £3.6m, which was the equivalent annual cost of replacing the Stagecoach routes. But I don't know if such routes will continue unchanged.

 

[Cesarcollie]

I would agree that the advertising and marketing of the new Stephenson's services has been terrible and the buses themselves look like they've been bought second hand. Zero out of 10 for effort in encouraging more people to use them.

They have produced an excellent timetable booklet with map. And remember the roadside stops/publicity are the responsibility of CPCA, not the operator. Would you buy new buses for a 5 month contract?

 

[duncombec]

They have produced an excellent timetable booklet with map. [...]

Which is also available online in "printed form style", https://stephensonsofessex.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Buses-around-Newmarket-web.pdf.

 

[MikeWM]

They have produced an excellent timetable booklet with map.

I agree, but you pretty much have to know exactly what you're looking for in the first place in order to find it. Have they made printed copies - I've not seen any?

I'd argue that the people most likely to be catching the bus around here would probably be among the least likely to be trying to look up such things on the internet (Ely isn't central London!) even if they somehow knew to look it up in the first place, which they probably won't as the services aren't advertised anywhere.

--

I understood that the Cambridgeshire & Peterborough Combined Authority has added a precept to local council tax, which will be specifically used to fund bus services - it hopes it will raise around £3.6m, which was the equivalent annual cost of replacing the Stagecoach routes. But I don't know if such routes will continue unchanged.

Ah, yes, I read we'd all be paying an extra £12 a year on top of the other huge rises in council tax from April, but hadn't joined the dots on that one, thanks.

 

[Cesarcollie]

I agree, but you pretty much have to know exactly what you're looking for in the first place in order to find it. Have they made printed copies - I've not seen any?

I'd argue that the people most likely to be catching the bus around here would probably be among the least likely to be trying to look up such things on the internet (Ely isn't central London!) even if they somehow knew to look it up in the first place, which they probably won't as the services aren't advertised anywhere.

--



Ah, yes, I read we'd all be paying an extra £12 a year on top of the other huge rises in council tax from April, but hadn't joined the dots on that one, thanks.

Yes the timetable booklet is printed - it has been on all the buses I’ve seen. What would you do better? And what have Whippet, A2B, Dews etc done ? Do Stagecoach produce printed timetables?

 

[MikeWM]

Yes the timetable booklet is printed - it has been on all the buses I’ve seen.

Well, that's good to hear. I should try to pick one up at some point.

What would you do better? And what have Whippet, A2B, Dews etc done ? Do Stagecoach produce printed timetables?

Unfortunately not anymore, but people know to look for Stagecoach around here, they've operated the buses for decades. In Cambridge at least - though not in Ely - stops often even have timetables on them. Conversely I'd never even heard of Stephenson's until last Autumn, and only then because I read about them on here.

I'd definitely try to make sure there was current information at the bus stops, whether they are directly responsible for that or not, particularly those on Market Street. And they could put timetables and/or posters advertising their services in Ely library, the local supermarkets, the doctor surgeries, etc. I don't believe they have, at least I've not seen any.

 

[paulmch]

I caught a Stephenson's 12 along Newmarket Road yesterday as the Citi3 was in its usual state of meltdown, and it was full and standing! There were a few people sat near me talking about how often a single decker isn't enough capacity for the route, which was encouraging!

 

[SouthEastBuses]

First spec full-height deckers anyway so it doesn't matter in that respect (although the recent StreetDeck deliveries have been deliberately ordered at a lower height as their Ipswich depot has a height restriction and its easier to order the whole batch at the lower height). All of the ex-London deckers they have acquired recently have had the second set of doors removed too.

With the exception of the open topper buses in Devon and Cornwall...

Stagecoach have stated repeatedly that full hight buses with dual doors don’t work for regional fleets.

If that's the case, why are the Cambridgeshire Busway B E400XLBs dual door and full height? Clearly the busway is a regional route isn't it, not to mention its previous Scania Enviro400 double deckers were low height single door just like elsewhere!

Below is the list as originally planned, however I hear there may be changes to this, although I can't confirm exactly what (although there has been a mention elsewhere that the Torquay batch may be getting diverted elsewhere, the source is one of the Stagecoach SW FB groups....). Also, the Kendal ones are very near delivery now, one registered YX23OOW https://twitter.com/fogonthetyne92/status/1635642763290050561

11571-9 Kendal (coach seats) (9)
11581-602 Chichester (22)
11603-6 Winchester (4)
11607-28 Torquay (22)
11629-51 Preston (23)
11652-62 Folkestone (11)
11663-76 Northampton (14)
11677-96 Hull (20)
11697-716 Sheffield Holbrook (20)
11717-31 Manchester Hyde Road (15)
11732-46 Ashton (15)
11747-61 Witney (15)
11762-9 Mansfield (8)
11770-80 WALKERGATE (11)
11781-97 Inverness (17)

HTH

Strangely it seems that there will be no 11580... and it's interesting to see Stagecoach having ordered 17 extra E400 MMCs too, meaning that there's now 217 E400MMCs coming.

The order that makes no sense is 11747-11761 for Witney. They already have 69 reg E400 MMCs, so why the need for new buses?

Also, I wish Stagecoach could have ordered their E400MMCs on Scania N250UD chassis instead, they are far more superior with much better performance than Cummins E40D ones. And much more suited to certain routes they'll be operating on anyway, like the 555 Lancaster to Keswick

 

[volvob12]

If that's the case, why are the Cambridgeshire Busway B E400XLBs dual door and full height? Clearly the busway is a regional route isn't it, not to mention its previous Scania Enviro400 double deckers were low height single door just like elsewhere!

They don’t work for their regional fleets.

However the Busway is a special case, obviously it’s not just your standard regional route. Do those B8Ls work any other services? No.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

They don’t work for their regional fleets.

However the Busway is a special case, obviously it’s not just your standard regional route. Do those B8Ls work any other services? No.

Still a weird choice to order dual door for the Busway B even then, seeing that the single deckers of the same age used on Busway A are single door.

I suspect it must be to do with the design of the E400XLB which is clearly only available in dual door full height.

I also notice it's not the first time Stagecoach had ordered dual door full height double deckers for use outside of London. Ironically in Cambridge as well, but on the Park & Ride instead, there used to be a fleet of 20 ADL E400s (19295-19314) which, very unusually for Stagecoach, were dual door full height. They're now mostly in Lincoln and have been converted to single door too. I wonder why dual door was ordered for Cambridge P&R back in 2007, I'm curious. I must imagine that dual doors made no difference at all on the P&R routes to the point that in 2016 Stagecoach just decided to order standard low height single door for the Cambridge P&R.

 

[Cesarcollie]

With the exception of the open topper buses in Devon and Cornwall...



If that's the case, why are the Cambridgeshire Busway B E400XLBs dual door and full height? Clearly the busway is a regional route isn't it, not to mention its previous Scania Enviro400 double deckers were low height single door just like elsewhere!



Strangely it seems that there will be no 11580... and it's interesting to see Stagecoach having ordered 17 extra E400 MMCs too, meaning that there's now 217 E400MMCs coming.

The order that makes no sense is 11747-11761 for Witney. They already have 69 reg E400 MMCs, so why the need for new buses?

Also, I wish Stagecoach could have ordered their E400MMCs on Scania N250UD chassis instead, they are far more superior with much better performance than Cummins E40D ones. And much more suited to certain routes they'll be operating on anyway, like the 555 Lancaster to Keswick

They couldn’t have ordered the Scania N250 chassis as it is no longer produced for the UK market.

 

[Jordan Adam]

They couldn’t have ordered the Scania N250 chassis as it is no longer produced for the UK market.

It is still produced, one has just entered service this week!

First day in service for the very last new UK Scania/ADL bus - superb Stephensons of Essex Scania N250UD / ADL Enviro400MMC 621, EU23 BZL

Copyright © John G. Lidstone, all rights reserved. I hope you enjoy my work and thanks for viewing. NO use of this image is allowed without my express prior permission and subject to compensation/payment. I do not want my images linked in Facebook groups. It is an offence, under law, if you...

www.flickr.com

Mod note - This is not an official source, so please do not assume the information is correct.

 

[Cesarcollie]

It is still produced, one has just entered service this week!

First day in service for the very last new UK Scania/ADL bus - superb Stephensons of Essex Scania N250UD / ADL Enviro400MMC 621, EU23 BZL

Copyright © John G. Lidstone, all rights reserved. I hope you enjoy my work and thanks for viewing. NO use of this image is allowed without my express prior permission and subject to compensation/payment. I do not want my images linked in Facebook groups. It is an offence, under law, if you...

www.flickr.com

Mod note - This is not an official source, so please do not assume the information is correct.

Not sure what the mod note is for.... the photo quite clearly shows a brand new Scania N250UD / Enviro400MMC!

It is still produced, one has just entered service this week!

First day in service for the very last new UK Scania/ADL bus - superb Stephensons of Essex Scania N250UD / ADL Enviro400MMC 621, EU23 BZL

Copyright © John G. Lidstone, all rights reserved. I hope you enjoy my work and thanks for viewing. NO use of this image is allowed without my express prior permission and subject to compensation/payment. I do not want my images linked in Facebook groups. It is an offence, under law, if you...

www.flickr.com

Mod note - This is not an official source, so please do not assume the information is correct.

Not sure what the mod note is for.... the photo quite clearly shows a brand new Scania N250UD / Enviro400MMC!

Yes that’s the last one. And was ordered last year!

 

[CBlue]

Still a weird choice to order dual door for the Busway B even then, seeing that the single deckers of the same age used on Busway A are single door.

I suspect it must be to do with the design of the E400XLB which is clearly only available in dual door full height.

I also notice it's not the first time Stagecoach had ordered dual door full height double deckers for use outside of London. Ironically in Cambridge as well, but on the Park & Ride instead, there used to be a fleet of 20 ADL E400s (19295-19314) which, very unusually for Stagecoach, were dual door full height. They're now mostly in Lincoln and have been converted to single door too. I wonder why dual door was ordered for Cambridge P&R back in 2007, I'm curious. I must imagine that dual doors made no difference at all on the P&R routes to the point that in 2016 Stagecoach just decided to order standard low height single door for the Cambridge P&R. Yes this is getting off topic now, I know, so I'll stop here. (if necessary, @GusB , please feel free to move this post into a Stagecoach East thread, if it exists).

Goodness.


I appreciate we may be going off topic, but to answer the above post:

The 2007 Cambridge Park and Ride fleet was purchased to replace dual-door ex London ALX400s (T-KPU and S-BWC). Dual doors were needed as the routes ran cross-city, with more than one busy boarding and alighting point. The dual doors on the tridents worked well, so the E400s were ordered with the same. Presumably they were tagged on to a London order and as a result weren't low height.

By the same the 2016 E400 MMCs came along all the cross city routes had been split to improve reliability. Dual doors weren't needed for the new route layouts and passenger flows so standard single door buses were adequate.

As for the Busway E400XLB's, given their capacity and the expected loadings pre COVID, dual doors would definitely have been needed if ridership had carried on increasing at the rate it had been, given their enormous capacity and multiple busy stops. The saloons don't need dual doors - it would reduce seating capacity too much.

So while you may think in hindsight that these decisions are strange - believe me, at the time they were definitely the correct ones.

Yes that’s the last one. And was ordered last year!

Quite. I don't know why some posters are so quick to dispute others.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Goodness.


I appreciate we may be going off topic, but to answer the above post:

The 2007 Cambridge Park and Ride fleet was purchased to replace dual-door ex London ALX400s (T-KPU and S-BWC). Dual doors were needed as the routes ran cross-city, with more than one busy boarding and alighting point. The dual doors on the tridents worked well, so the E400s were ordered with the same. Presumably they were tagged on to a London order and as a result weren't low height.

By the same the 2016 E400 MMCs came along all the cross city routes had been split to improve reliability. Dual doors weren't needed for the new route layouts and passenger flows so standard single door buses were adequate.

As for the Busway E400XLB's, given their capacity and the expected loadings pre COVID, dual doors would definitely have been needed if ridership had carried on increasing at the rate it had been, given their enormous capacity and multiple busy stops. The saloons don't need dual doors - it would reduce seating capacity too much.

So while you may think in hindsight that these decisions are strange - believe me, at the time they were definitely the correct ones.

That all clears is it up then! Thanks!

I only thought they were strange decisions as no other division at Stagecoach had ever done what Cambridge did.

For the boldened bit, I disagree, as a second door just means the loss of 4 seats on a 12m low entry single decker which typically consists of 44-45 seats. We have the same type of bus (Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse 2) the Busway has (or had) on Metrobus Crawley fastway routes, and ours are dual door. And despite being dual dual door, they have 40 seats! Whilst a standard single door B7RLE has a total of I believe 44-45 seats. So yeah I fail to see how much seating capacity would be lost.

 

[mbonwick]

Presumably they were tagged on to a London order and as a result weren't low height.

I don't believe they were tagged onto a London order - Macquarie had purchased the ops by that point - it was more a case of the easiest/most cost effective way of ordering dual-door E400s was to ask for TfL spec without the aircon and iBus, and with LED destination displays vice rollers.

 

[Magdalia]

As for the Busway E400XLB's, given their capacity and the expected loadings pre COVID, dual doors would definitely have been needed if ridership had carried on increasing at the rate it had been, given their enormous capacity and multiple busy stops. The saloons don't need dual doors - it would reduce seating capacity too much.

Furthermore, the long dual door double deckers are used on busway routes B and C which carry a large amount of student traffic to and from Cambridge Regional College, plus Hills Road and Long Road Sixth Form Colleges. The student traffic has some very high peak flows that have not been reduced by COVID.

In contrast busway route A, which has to be single deckers, has much less student traffic, though Long Road students use it in the middle of the day when route C is not running. The most important traffic on route A is to and from Addenbrookes hospital, especially Outpatients.

Students are generally more capable at standing than people with Outpatients appointments.

 

[Man of Kent]

I don't believe they were tagged onto a London order - Macquarie had purchased the ops by that point - it was more a case of the easiest/most cost effective way of ordering dual-door E400s was to ask for TfL spec without the aircon and iBus, and with LED destination displays vice rollers.

Not only that, they had manual ramps at the front door, not powered ones at the centre.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That all clears is it up then! Thanks!

I only thought they were strange decisions as no other division at Stagecoach had ever done what Cambridge did.

For the boldened bit, I disagree, as a second door just means the loss of 4 seats on a 12m low entry single decker which typically consists of 44-45 seats. We have the same type of bus (Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse 2) the Busway has (or had) on Metrobus Crawley fastway routes, and ours are dual door. And despite being dual dual door, they have 40 seats! Whilst a standard single door B7RLE has a total of I believe 44-45 seats. So yeah I fail to see how much seating capacity would be lost.

About 10% which is really quite a bit.

As an aside, and not aimed at you, but there does appear to be an enthusiast's hierachy

Solo or other mini... It really must be single deck
Single deck... It really must be a heavyweight single deck
Still a single deck... It really must be a double decker
It's a double decker... It really must be a dual doored double decker (cue discussion about bus company conservatism, dwell times, ticketing, how much better everything is on the continent for the 289th time)

As it is, the Busway has provided a steady stream of vehicles to be cascaded to the wider Stagecoach East fleet. However, and I noted this on my excursion to the area in July, the Stagecoach East fleet is looking a bit peachy now - no real relics to think of but definitely looking a bit middle-aged. Don't know what the age stipulations are on the Busway (are there any?) but 09 plate Eclipses are showing their age, and Peterborough seemed to have a lot of stuff from 2010-2012... did they lose newer deckers for the X5 or am I misremembering?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

About 10% which is really quite a bit.

As an aside, and not aimed at you, but there does appear to be an enthusiast's hierachy

Solo or other mini... It really must be single deck
Single deck... It really must be a heavyweight single deck
Still a single deck... It really must be a double decker
It's a double decker... It really must be a dual doored double decker (cue discussion about bus company conservatism, dwell times, ticketing, how much better everything is on the continent for the 289th time)

As it is, the Busway has provided a steady stream of vehicles to be cascaded to the wider Stagecoach East fleet. However, and I noted this on my excursion to the area in July, the Stagecoach East fleet is looking a bit peachy now - no real relics to think of but definitely looking a bit middle-aged. Don't know what the age stipulations are on the Busway (are there any?) but 09 plate Eclipses are showing their age, and Peterborough seemed to have a lot of stuff from 2010-2012... did they lose newer deckers for the X5 or am I misremembering?

X5 never had ex Busway double deckers. It has 67 reg E400 MMCs cascaded from Peterborough (10871-10880) plus two newer 69 reg ones (11279/11280) new for it. Was this your question?