Stagecoach East Scotland

[overthewater]

I think you've hit the nail right on the head. And not just on Tayside, but across all of Scotland in general.

This isnt the thread to highlight how the current government for the past 14 odd years has underfunded the scheme.

I wonder if the changes have been brought forward by two weeks because Stagecoach has come to some sort of agreement with the councils. However I've heard there also changes due for Fife so maybe they planning everything together?

 

[roadierway77]

So does this mean that the original proposed changes from February & the changes in Angus are happening, even the ones that were supposedly cancelled?

From how I interpret the article, potentially, but they have met with Perth & Kinross Council which might mean they've arranged subsidy for some routes. Why they haven't announced the details of this now and are deciding to keep users waiting is anybody's guess. If the exact timetables and arrangements aren't complete then this shouldn't have been announced already, especially when it's not clear whether the changes are still going ahead as planned or not. It just creates more uncertainty and confusion for passengers.

 

[BobbyBKinross]

I'd be surprised if Perth & Kinross Council have chose to subsidise services without agreement of full council or at least the finance and resource committee's agreement. Although subsidy of the services would undoubtedly be the most favoured option by the public.

 

[overthewater]

I'd be surprised if Perth & Kinross Council have chose to subsidise services without agreement of full council or at least the finance and resource committee's agreement. Although subsidy of the services would undoubtedly be the most favoured option by the public.

Maybe the council has agreed to a short term contract until August so the council can have a proper look at the route.

Mind you I wouldn't be one bit surprised if the Perth Depot has been looking for cuts to help free up drivers so they can retake all 4 duties on the X56.

 

[Fifescottish]

Any word on Fife changes in the pipeline?

 

[overthewater]

Any word on Fife changes in the pipeline?

The new coaches are delayed until the summer so who knows if they will get pushed back from May.

 

[Gareth1980]

Any word on Fife changes in the pipeline?

The Fife changes will be July according to a notice issued by the union

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Angus Council have released "proposed" timetables (which have already been received by the Traffic Commissioner...) for the Angus area from May 13th: https://www.angus.gov.uk/proposed_timetables_for_bus_journeys_within_angus

However going by this article, Angus Council are on the naughty step for doing so! https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/new...70/stagecoach-perthshire-statement-timetable/

Stagecoach to issue statement amid Perthshire bus cuts confusion as new timetable appears
A proposed schedule was published by Angus Council showing a new 39 bus route running between Perth and Dundee.

Stagecoach will release a statement on Friday regarding their plans for bus routes in Perthshire after a new draft timetable unexpectedly appeared online.

A proposed schedule was published by Angus Council showing a new 39 bus route running between Perth and Dundee six days a week, with Sunday not included in the update.

The plans show a near hourly service between Perth Royal Infirmary and Dundee city centre with stops in Invergowrie and Ninewells Hospital.

Less frequent stops would also be made at Glencarse, St Madoes, Errol, Inchture, Glendoick and Longforgan.

It remains unclear if the new draft is being put forward as a compromise to combine the X7 and 16 routes.

Both were set to be axed in the bus company’s original proposals put forward earlier this year, plans that would have left the Carse of Gowrie without a commercial bus service.

The proposed route published on the Angus Council website states it would come into effect on May 13 – the same date Stagecoach said they would introduce a new timetable in Perthshire.

The bus company had previously stated they would publish their finalised timetable for the area towards the end of April.

The version appearing on the Angus Council website is still entitled “proposed bus service timetables”.

Stagecoach’s original plans to axe and reduce routes across Perthshire had been met with anger and concern by communities across the local authority.

Residents from communities within the Carse of Gowrie feared they would not be able to get to their GP or school in time for their exams, while the chief executive of NHS Tayside said the removal of the X7 would cause parking chaos at hospitals.

Hundreds of people turned out to public meetings to voice their concerns that the removal of services would leave communities cut off and isolated.

Pressure from politicians, residents and The Courier forced the bus company back into talks with Perth and Kinross Council.

It remains unclear whether or not the timetable published by Angus Council is the final outcome of those talks.

Perth and Kinross Council confirmed that the bus company was set to issue a statement tomorrow, April 5, on the matter.

The Courier contacted Stagecoach but did not get a response before publication.

A study by Transport Scotland showed that bus travel increased by 29% across Scotland in 2022 from the previous year.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Angus Council have released "proposed" timetables (which have already been received by the Traffic Commissioner...) for the Angus area from May 13th: https://www.angus.gov.uk/proposed_timetables_for_bus_journeys_within_angus

However going by this article, Angus Council are on the naughty step for doing so! https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/new...70/stagecoach-perthshire-statement-timetable/

The 39 proposal here seems like the sensible outcome, similar to what a few had suggested before. It will be interesting to see what the reaction is if this gets the go ahead though.

 

[kez19]

Angus Council have released "proposed" timetables (which have already been received by the Traffic Commissioner...) for the Angus area from May 13th: https://www.angus.gov.uk/proposed_timetables_for_bus_journeys_within_angus

However going by this article, Angus Council are on the naughty step for doing so! https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/new...70/stagecoach-perthshire-statement-timetable/

Didn’t Stagecoach not run a 39 to Perth before the X7 came about?, ie 16 dropped to be replaced by 39? I don’t mind if I am wrong to say but I feel as if I seen this maybe 5-10 years ago?

Edit https://www.pkc.gov.uk/media/37991/...sport_Map_April_2019.pdf?m=636916112204270000

Timetable April 2019… 16 is replaced by 39, 39A and 39B X7 is included

 

[overthewater]

It looks to me Stagecoach are still talking with Perth and Kinross council. This new proposed" timetable seem to be missing at least, the first journey toward Dundee IE current X16, one round trip on evening service and the full Sunday service. Are stagecoach trying to get P&K council to renumber the current tender 16 to 39s?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It looks to me Stagecoach are still talking with Perth and Kinross council. This new proposed" timetable seem to be missing at least, the first journey toward Dundee IE current X16, one round trip on evening service and the full Sunday service. Are stagecoach trying to get P&K council to renumber the current tender 16 to 39s?

I’m not sure they are still talking with the council as the changes have already been registered for May 13th!

There is a separate registration for the 39B solely, which may be the remainder of the evening and Sunday journeys.

 

[Tayway]

Funnily enough this is exactly what they did in about 2019 (except all villages were served hourly in the Carse like on the 16), and it got quickly pulled due to lack of reliability.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Funnily enough this is exactly what they did in about 2019 (except all villages were served hourly in the Carse like on the 16), and it got quickly pulled due to lack of reliability.

Quickly? It lasted almost 2 years… (May 2018 to February 2020)

 

[BobbyBKinross]

Managed decline, similar to what happened in West Lothian. They proposed to remove pretty much all commercial services from the Carse & should the new 39 be implemented, it will not be long before they try to do it again!

 

[kez19]

Quickly? It lasted almost 2 years… (May 2018 to February 2020)

What is it with them mucking around with the 16/39 numbers? They ran it like that then it reverted back to 2 separate services again?

I haven’t used the 16 in ages but correct me here but wasn’t the 16 split in 2 ie one 16 went the “country” roads to Perth and another had similar route but covered the route mostly down the carriageway? I only remember it using the St Maddoes junction the bus used to go into and turn round (pending on direction).

 

[overthewater]

16 kept on being mucked around with ever since the Dundee Depot closed.

Stagecoach has made its formal Announcement: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/news/...or-timetable-changes-across-perth-and-kinross

Stagecoach confirm plans for timetable changes across Perth and Kinross​

05 Apr 2024

• Timetable changes confirmed for 13th May 2024
• Confirmed changes follow discussions with Perth & Kinross Council
• Carse of Gowrie bus link maintained

Bus operator Stagecoach have confirmed the date for timetable changes across Perth & Kinross, Dundee and Angus as 13th May 2024. The date follows further consultation with Perth & Kinross Council officers to evaluate the original proposals and the extensive feedback received by the community.

Although a four week extension to original proposals was discussed, a shorter period was agreed so that timetable changes within the three council areas could take place at the same time, minimising disruption for bus passengers who may otherwise have experienced two timetable changes during the course of the month.

Douglas Robertson, Managing Director, Stagecoach East Scotland commented: “We’re extremely grateful for the feedback received from the community regarding our original service proposals, the process allowed us to focus our attention where customers identified travel challenges and we could establish the best use of resources.

“Our collaboration with Perth & Kinross Council transport officers has also led to further adjustments to our proposals and we’re confident that the new timetables better reflect the service usage we’ve experienced, whilst also reinstating certain key journeys and travel options based on the feedback we’ve received from those who rely on public transport.

“Whilst we would never want to implement any service cuts, like any business, we need to be able to cover the cost of operating the bus network to remain sustainable in the longer term. Rising operating costs and low passenger numbers on numerous corridors meant that the shortfall simply was not sustainable any longer and we needed to take action.”

The revised plans would replace service 16 in the Carse of Gowrie with extended service 39, which will provide an hourly link between Ninewells Hospital and Perth Royal Infirmary. Though the X7 will be withdrawn between Dundee and Perth, the revised 39 service retains a low floor bus service between Perth and Dundee and the two hospital sites for most communities in the area, with journeys to Errol and Glendoick up to every 2 hours on this route.

Within North Perthshire, due to low usage, most Monday – Saturday daytime journeys will be withdrawn on services 23/27 with service 34/34A providing partial replacements as these services will extend beyond Stanley to Bankfoot, Birnam, Dunkeld up to every hour and to Ballinluig (for connections to Pitlochry) and Aberfeldy up to every two hours. This will provide new journey opportunities for communities between Luncarty, Bankfoot and Dunkeld and service 24 will be revised to provide connections at Ballinluig from services to Perth/Aberfeldy.

The timetable for service 4 operating to Bertha Park will be revised and following customer feedback received, certain early morning journeys will be maintained for peak travel and service 34C will also be extended to serve Bertha Park on Sundays.

Services 14/14A will be revised to continue offering links throughout the day to Pitcairngreen, Almondbank and West Mains Avenue whilst also offering new links to Dobbies and the new Huntingtower View development.

Councillor Grant Laing, Leader of Perth and Kinross Council, said: “This new timetable from Stagecoach offers residents in Perth and Kinross a different service than what is currently in place; however, the new times and routes that will be available will make it easier for people to travel around much of Perth and Kinross without having to come into the city to transfer to another service. I want to thank everyone who took the time to respond to Stagecoach; your views have been taken into account and have had a real impact on the decisions made regarding our bus services going forward.

“I’m also pleased to be informed that the type of bus being used on the hospital route through the Carse will be far more accessible and easier for people to get on to. It is incredibly important, particularly in our rural areas that the service is made as accessible as possible for people who have mobility issues, or they simply will not be able to use it.

“Nationally bus services are not as well used as they could be and the fact is, if they continue to be underused then we will see more and more services disappear. I urge residents to look at the new timetables and see if there are routes on offer that they can utilise, even once or twice a week would make a difference.”

 

[BobbyBKinross]

Seems as if quite a few coaches were off-road/unavailable today, the new coaches for the X24/X27 can't come quick enough!

 

[Bowie]

Seems as if quite a few coaches were off-road/unavailable today, the new coaches for the X24/X27 can't come quick enough!

One of thems currently up at Inverness Depot for either repairs or MOT, 54144 YX63 NFC

 

[Ohnolookwho]

One of thems currently up at Inverness Depot for either repairs or MOT, 54144 YX63 NFC

Thats not one of the new coaches for the X24/27 but rather one of the old worn out ones.

 

[Bowie]

Thats not one of the new coaches for the X24/27 but rather one of the old worn out ones.

When i said that i was just meaning one of East Scotlands coaches in general

 

[overthewater]

Stagecoach Tayside changes are up:

ANGUS:

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

After reviewing customer feedback and consulting with Angus Council, we’re making changes to services and timetables across Angus from Monday 13th May.
We are also making changes to services across Perth & Kinross from this date. Find out more.

Full information on proposed changes, along with timetable links can be found on below:



Services 20/20C/21/21A/21B/21D
Numerous journeys have been retimed, particularly between Forfar and Kirriemuir and journeys on Sundays. An improved pattern of journeys between Edzell/Stracathro Hospital and Brechin and Forfar will operate on services 21 and 21A each running every 2 hours for a combined hourly frequency. Service 21 now serves Whitehills.

21B will run on schooldays only and the 20D College journey in the morning has been renumbered 21D to match the afternoon journey. Forfar Community Campus will now only be served during campus opening hours.


Service 22
New additional weekday journeys added.

Service 27
Timetable has been revised and we will no longer operate the local Forfar town service in the evenings Monday to Saturday, (journeys available on Moffat & Williamson service 23), but we will continue to operate these journeys on Sundays. Due to low usage, Guthrie and Gala Bingo will no longer served. The 27A college journey will be renumbered 27 with some slight changes to the afternoon timings.


Service 30
The Warddykes service will be retimed and renumbered from 30A.


Service 39
Now has an increased service frequency between Arbroath and Dundee/Ninewells and Invergowrie to every 30 minutes and hourly to operate via the Carse to Perth city centre and Perth Royal Infirmary. Although the morning journeys no longer serves Timmergreens, this area will be covered by service 43.


New services 40/40A
A new combination of previous 30 and 47 timetables, providing hourly journeys between Stracathro Hospital, Brechin, Montrose, Inverkeilor and Arbroath on Monday to Saturday and approx. every 90 minutes on Sundays.


Services 43/43A/43/44
Minor timetable changes.


Service 47
Journeys will be included within new service 40 timetable. Services 47A and 47B will remain the same.


Services 73/73A/73B/73C
Minor timetable changes – Journeys will no longer serve Kingoodie due to low passenger numbers. An additional journey at 0705 from Monifieth and 1657 from Ninewells (Monday to Friday) and 1003 Dundee to Ethiebeaton (Saturday) have been added and some other minor timing amendments to improve reliability.


Services 181/181A
Minor timetable changes

Service X7
Timetable changes to improve reliability and the section of the route between Perth and Dundee will be withdrawn due to low usage. The hourly link between Ninewells Hospital and Perth city centre/PRI will be retained via extended service 39 and will use a low floor vehicle.

PERTHSHIRE:

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

After reviewing customer feedback and consulting with Perth & Kinross Council, we’re making changes to services and timetables across Perth and Kinross from Monday 13th May.

Full information on proposed changes, along with timetable links can be found on below:


Services 1/1A
Services 2/2A
Minor changes to the daytime timetables Monday – Sunday; evening timetable revised to incorporate North Muirton.


Service 4
Monday – Saturday revised timetable. Sundays now covered by 34C.


Services 5/6
0745 from Mill Street Monday – Friday retimed to operate five minutes earlier.


Services 7/7A/7B/7C
Revised timetable and route. Journeys between Scone and City centre now operate every 15 minutes (up from every 20 currently) Revised route will omit Scone Park & Ride (bus some journeys on 57 will connect this site with Perth city centre). Service between City centre and Broxden Park & Ride revised including some journeys now via Aviva. Some journeys will continue beyond Broxden to service Hillend.


Services 8/8S
Revised timetable to operate up to every 30 minutes via existing route. Early morning and some evening journeys will be replaced by service 7B, operating via Broxden Park & Ride.


Service 9
Minor changes to the daytime timetable Monday – Sunday; evening timetable withdrawn, replaced by 1A & 2A. Connections now available to PRI from North Muirton without changing bus.


Services 14/14A
Monday – Saturday revised timetable, some additional journeys now serve Huntingtower View near Dobbies. Additional journeys on service 14A extend to Almondbank. All services will operate along A85 between Tesco and Almondbank. Sunday service replaced by some journeys on service 15.


Services 15/15A
Revised Monday – Sunday timetable. Some additional Sunday journeys will operate via Pitcairngreen and Almondbank.


Services 16/16B
Service replaced by service 39/39A, see details below. 16B renumbered 39B.


Service 18
Withdrawn and replaced by journeys on service 7.


Services 23/23A/23X/27/27X
Most Monday – Saturday daytime journeys withdrawn with service 34/34A providing partial replacements. Some remaining journeys will operate at slightly different times.


Service 24
Revised timetable to provide connections at Ballinluig from services to Perth/Aberfeldy.


Services 34/34A/34C
Monday – Saturday revised timetable and route; service extends beyond Stanley to Bankfoot, Birnam, Dunkeld up to every hour and to Ballinluig (for Pitlochry) and Aberfeldy up to every two hours. Service between Blairgowrie and Spittalfield withdrawn. Sunday journeys on 34C revised to operate via Bertha Park.


Services 39/39A/39B
As originally proposed, service between Arbroath and Ninewells will operate every 30 minutes Monday – Saturday during the day. These journeys will extend to Invergowrie, giving this area a 30-minute service.

One journey per hour will extend from Ninewells to Perth Royal Infirmary to retain a link for the Carse to both hospital sites using a low floor bus. These journeys will operate via villages in the Carse currently serviced by route 16/16X. For most communities this will retain the existing hourly frequency; Errol and Glendoick will be served approximately every two hours.

Some journey opportunities from Kingoodie to Ninewells and Dundee will also be maintained. Monday – Saturday evening journeys, and Sunday journeys that were numbered 16B will be renumbered to 39B, operating between Perth bus station and Dundee bus station.


Services 57/57A//57U
Minor changes to Monday – Saturday evening timetables; extra journeys added between Perth and Blairgowrie have been added on a Saturday.
Some journeys now operate via Scone Park & Ride.


Service 70
0640 service from Inveralmond bus depot Monday – Friday extends to Bertha park arriving at 0738.


Service X7
Service between Perth Royal Infirmary and Dundee bus station will be withdrawn and partially replaced by revised service 39/39A.

 

[Tayway]

Strange how little has changed frequency wise in Angus compared to Perth and Kinross – are the council stumping up more subsidies or have passengers numbers bounced back better?

 

[overthewater]

Strange how little has changed frequency wise in Angus compared to Perth and Kinross – are the council stumping up more subsidies or have passengers numbers bounced back better?

Did you notice that No57 getting extra runs to Perth on a Saturday? Meaning it will be every 30mins instead of hourly. Yet other areas area getting cuts, it does look like parts of Perthshire haven't recovered.

Also Broxden now down to every 30mins, that's been changed aswell from the consultation.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Are the coaches at West Scotland in significantly better condition than those at East Scotland? I had a look on the bustimes page and the single deckers don't appear to be much younger than the coaches already at East Scotland. Are East Scotland due to get any of the double decker coaches as well?

Also, it's been mentioned on here previously that "vehicles x/y/z are due to be arriving for the X24/X27"; are these routes (the Glasgow ones) supposed to have their own dedicated fleet? Why? Are they significantly different in demands to the Edinburgh routes?

Apologies if this is already answered elsewhere.

 

[Ohnolookwho]

Are the coaches at West Scotland in significantly better condition than those at East Scotland? I had a look on the bustimes page and the single deckers don't appear to be much younger than the coaches already at East Scotland. Are East Scotland due to get any of the double decker coaches as well?

Also, it's been mentioned on here previously that "vehicles x/y/z are due to be arriving for the X24/X27"; are these routes (the Glasgow ones) supposed to have their own dedicated fleet? Why? Are they significantly different in demands to the Edinburgh routes?

Apologies if this is already answered elsewhere.

If they are then I imagine that the roads here in Fife are probably a big factor, and the express routes in West Scotland seem to be actually express, so the doors don't get as worn out.

 

[overthewater]

The main reason is the Forth Road bridge; if they use the deckers and it's a bad day they would have to skip 2 bus stops. If we went back to 2019 timetables with the X54 and X59 being flyers there would be no issues.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The main reason is Forth Road bridge, If they use the decker's and its a bad day they would have to skip 2 bus stops. IF we went back to 2019 Timetables with the X54 and X59 being flyers they would be no issues.

I don't really understand this message.
Main reason for what?
Why does bad weather mean missing two stops?
What happened in the 2019 timetable?

 

[Ohnolookwho]

The main reason is Forth Road bridge, If they use the decker's and its a bad day they would have to skip 2 bus stops. IF we went back to 2019 Timetables with the X54 and X59 being flyers they would be no issues.

Something i've heard a few drivers say is that everything was pretty much perfect toward the end of 2019 and going back to those timetables would be beneficial. Of course, I have no idea myself since I started in 2022.

 

[overthewater]

I don't really understand this message.
Main reason for what?

I'm more confused as you're the one who asked the questions:

Also, it's been mentioned on here previously that "vehicles x/y/z are due to be arriving for the X24/X27"; are these routes (the Glasgow ones) supposed to have their own dedicated fleet? Why? Are they significantly different in demands to the Edinburgh routes?

My response is this

The main reason is the Forth Road bridge; if they use the deckers and it's a bad day they would have to skip 2 bus stops. If we went back to 2019 timetables with the X54 and X59 being flyers there would be no issues.

It's weather related: At present there is a driver shortage so the company has brought some decker coaches to help combat with the demand on the Glasgow route. However if they get used on the Edinburgh routes ( with the Glasgow routes going back up to every 20mins) and there are high winds they can't operate across the old bridge. It will also add more time if there is congestion on Queensferry bridge. Yes X55 has seen a large number of deckers on the Edinburgh route at times but if the winds pick up off they come and it has already happened a few times this year.

What happened in the 2019 timetable?

Something i've heard a few drivers say is that everything was pretty much perfect toward the end of 2019 and going back to those timetables would be beneficial. Of course, I have no idea myself since I started in 2022.

2019 timetables had a lot more journeys, and half of the services operated as flyers non stop from Ferrytoll to Edinburgh City centre. At present we're missing:

* one journey per hour on X55
* one journey per hour on X59
* two journeys per hour on the X60.

I'm led to believe the Fife service changes in the summer will see some increase on the Edinburgh Express.