Stagecoach East Scotland

[Strathtay 260]

Sounds like confirmation bias to me. Is this the same 50-70 school kids that never used to rely on the bus to go home when they had to pay?

No, that's very unlikely and not the main point. The issue, as you mentioned, is that Solos are unsuitable for this route. I didn’t count obviously, around 50-70 school kids cramming onto one small bus is unacceptable. When I was on board, it was so overcrowded that elderly passengers were being accidentally jostled, and the number of kids standing down the bus made it nearly impossible to get off the bus before it left the stop. Meanwhile, double-deckers in the opposite direction were passing by almost empty.

At one point, kids were chasing after the bus and spraying water and juice on it because they couldn’t get on. Eventually, the driver allowed them to board a few stops down the road.

I understand Arbroath has a bus shortage, and reallocating double-deckers from town services or other routes, such as the 27 or 43A, might not be an option due to operational requirements. However, the 73/A/B/C routes clearly need double-deckers just as much.

 

[Tayway]

The 73 is probably East Scotland's busiest route other than 99, Solos really aren't going to cut it. Until a year or so ago I could count the times on one hand that I saw something other than a double decker, but they've really struggled to provide consistent capacity recently.

 

[overthewater]

Isn't this partly down to the fact Dundee now a LEZ zone? As stated by RomeoCharlie71 The company is working to try resolve this with new electric stock for Arbroath, plus other cascades, which people seem to have forgotten about. The same problem is happening elsewhere with the Express network having to operate with E300 as the new coaches have not turned up.

The winners of ScotZEB2 funding have been announced; Stagecoach East Scotland have been lucky enough to win funding for 46 electric vehicles and associated charging infrastructure.

It has been announced internally that 22 will be deployed at Arbroath, 16 at St Andrews and 8 at Dunfermline.

There are also in excess of 60 cascades due, with a mix of E200MMC, E400MMC and Enviro400s arriving from elsewhere within the Group. Amongst other fleet upgrades, this will see the B5LHs at Arbroath, which are due to depart the Group entirely, replaced.

 

[kez19]

Question in relation to the Stagecoach e400MMC, I noticed a few weeks ago they sound differently to the ones Xplore Dundee use? I noticed when they depart it feels a bit “hybrid” then the engine kicks in (where with Xplore it just starts and rolls), any ideas on the difference?

 

[Spsf3232]

I'm sure the stagecoach ones are Volvo B5LH and the others are integral

 

[computerSaysNo]

Question in relation to the Stagecoach e400MMC, I noticed a few weeks ago they sound differently to the ones Xplore Dundee use? I noticed when they depart it feels a bit “hybrid” then the engine kicks in (where with Xplore it just starts and rolls), any ideas on the difference?

I'm sure the stagecoach ones are Volvo B5LH and the others are integral

Yeah it sounds like he Stagecoach one you were on was one of the 400MMCs on the Volvo B5LH (hybrid) chassis. This has an electric motor on the front wheels and batteries somewhere in the bus, and the engine and gearbox on the back wheels. If there's enough power in the batteries then the engine will cut out when the bus is at low speed and allow the electric motor to propel the bus. I think this was designed to replace first gear in the diesel engine/gearbox. As speed increases the diesel engine cuts back in and is supposed to take over gradually from the electric motor. The batteries are recharged on braking or when the bus is at idle with the diesel engine still running.

The 400MMCs at Explore Dundee are (all?) plain diesel so have to use the engine for all propulsion. I think they still have start-stop though so the engine will cut out when the doors open and cut in when the doors close.

 

[kez19]

Yeah it sounds like he Stagecoach one you were on was one of the 400MMCs on the Volvo B5LH (hybrid) chassis. This has an electric motor on the front wheels and batteries somewhere in the bus, and the engine and gearbox on the back wheels. If there's enough power in the batteries then the engine will cut out when the bus is at low speed and allow the electric motor to propel the bus. I think this was designed to replace first gear in the diesel engine/gearbox. As speed increases the diesel engine cuts back in and is supposed to take over gradually from the electric motor. The batteries are recharged on braking or when the bus is at idle with the diesel engine still running.

The 400MMCs at Explore Dundee are (all?) plain diesel so have to use the engine for all propulsion. I think they still have start-stop though so the engine will cut out when the doors open and cut in when the doors close.

The reason I ask, was I went to Forfar on the original hybrids for that route, sounded normal, but the one to Arbroath (I believe may have been a Fife one originally), that one sounded more of an electric take off then engine kick in, the Xplore ones seems more of stop/start engine (didn’t realise there was differences of these models but it’s clear there is lol)

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The reason I ask, was I went to Forfar on the original hybrids for that route, sounded normal, but the one to Arbroath (I believe may have been a Fife one originally), that one sounded more of an electric take off then engine kick in, the Xplore ones seems more of stop/start engine (didn’t realise there was differences of these models but it’s clear there is lol)

Some of the B5LH’s have been converted to full diesel.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Some of the B5LH’s have been converted to full diesel.

No they haven't

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

No they haven't

At least one was, 13044.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

At least one was, 13044.

Again, no it wasn't

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Again, no it wasn't

Again, it was. It had a software update to convert it.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Again, it was. It had a software update to convert it.

It never!

13044, along with a few others (13048 and 13050 ring bells), had a software patch installed to try and improve their performance when the hybrid batteries started to degrade. This gave the impression that they had been converted to diesel-only as they never cut into electric mode. The hybrid batteries were then gradually replaced on every one of the batch once a supplier was found

 

[kez19]

It never!

13044, along with a few others (13048 and 13050 ring bells), had a software patch installed to try and improve their performance when the hybrid batteries started to degrade. This gave the impression that they had been converted to diesel-only as they never cut into electric mode. The hybrid batteries were then gradually replaced on every one of the batch once a supplier was found

pardon my ignorance on this part, they have software updates? I never knew this either! I thought a bus was a bus! (learn something new!… compliment here)

 

[Ohnolookwho]

The reason I ask, was I went to Forfar on the original hybrids for that route, sounded normal, but the one to Arbroath (I believe may have been a Fife one originally), that one sounded more of an electric take off then engine kick in, the Xplore ones seems more of stop/start engine (didn’t realise there was differences of these models but it’s clear there is lol)

If it was 11181, then yes it was originally a Fife one, those are "Smart Hybrids", being that, from my understanding anyway, use an electric motor to help move off from stopped, but are otherwise full diesels, unlike the Volvo B5LH ones where there electric motors can single handedly move the bus upto 20mph. You can hear an electronic whining at the front of the bus when in gear, with the hand break released, which I assume is the motor. Absolute pain when it decides it doesn't want to work properly.

 

[kez19]

If it was 11181, then yes it was originally a Fife one, those are "Smart Hybrids", being that, from my understanding anyway, use an electric motor to help move off from stopped, but are otherwise full diesels, unlike the Volvo B5LH ones where there electric motors can single handedly move the bus upto 20mph. You can hear an electronic whining at the front of the bus when in gear, with the hand break released, which I assume is the motor. Absolute pain when it decides it doesn't want to work properly.

Not sure of bus but remember the “Fife” one being on the 39 service but I remember it feeling that way!

 

[CSB0241]

Question in relation to the Stagecoach e400MMC, I noticed a few weeks ago they sound differently to the ones Xplore Dundee use? I noticed when they depart it feels a bit “hybrid” then the engine kicks in (where with Xplore it just starts and rolls), any ideas on the difference?

Are the Stagecoach MMCs in question 13041-13058/13111-13115 or 11181-11183/11186? If the former 25, then that’ll be because those are built on the Volvo B5LH chassis, but if we’re talking about the latter 4, then I’m unsure as they (along with the Xplore E400MMCs) are built on ADL’s own chassis.

Talking of new vehicles, do we have any idea when the Enviro 100EVs are finally due?

I was wondering this too, feels like years since theywere announced to be being delivered. What depots are they going to again?

If it was 11181, then yes it was originally a Fife one, those are "Smart Hybrids", being that, from my understanding anyway, use an electric motor to help move off from stopped, but are otherwise full diesels, unlike the Volvo B5LH ones where there electric motors can single handedly move the bus upto 20mph. You can hear an electronic whining at the front of the bus when in gear, with the hand break released, which I assume is the motor. Absolute pain when it decides it doesn't want to work properly.

I didn’t realise there was a difference in them. I thought all of the integral MMCs (bar the integral hybrids) just had their motor turn off at stops & start up again before moving again.

 

[kez19]

Are the Stagecoach MMCs in question 13041-13058/13111-13115 or 11181-11183/11186? If the former 25, then that’ll be because those are built on the Volvo B5LH chassis, but if we’re talking about the latter 4, then I’m unsure as they (along with the Xplore E400MMCs) are built on ADL’s own chassis.


I was wondering this too, feels like years since theywere announced to be being delivered. What depots are they going to again?


I didn’t realise there was a difference in them. I thought all of the integral MMCs (bar the integral hybrids) just had their motor turn off at stops & start up again before moving again.

I don't know the fleet numbers as I don't use Stagecoach very often, I remember the last couple months - the ones I used to Forfar were either previous route branded 20/21 or the 73, the one on the 39 was a "Fife" one to Arbroath (as on the back it had the silver display).

I just only knew the Xplore ones just start and stop but there is not so much of an electric kick in them as I believe they are diesel.

 

[Ohnolookwho]

Are the Stagecoach MMCs in question 13041-13058/13111-13115 or 11181-11183/11186? If the former 25, then that’ll be because those are built on the Volvo B5LH chassis, but if we’re talking about the latter 4, then I’m unsure as they (along with the Xplore E400MMCs) are built on ADL’s own chassis.


I was wondering this too, feels like years since theywere announced to be being delivered. What depots are they going to again?


I didn’t realise there was a difference in them. I thought all of the integral MMCs (bar the integral hybrids) just had their motor turn off at stops & start up again before moving again.

They do turn there engine off when the handbrake is applied and doors open, and then start up when the door closes again. But they use a "boost" motor to help them get moving, in combination with the engine. It kind of feels as if they are missing a proper 1st gear, because when the system isn't working properly they take forever to move off, although in fairness most probably wouldn't know it wasn't working properly until they go on 11176, which it definitely is working as it takes off like a rocket. Or atleast, it did.

 

[Strathtay 260]

What's up with 13044, 13049 and 13055? They've not been seen in ages (the last time 13049/55 tracked was in July, and August for 13044!).

 

[overthewater]

This seems to have gone unnoticed, Service AB1 will become an hourly service from 7th October on weekdays only. However the service been in driver only mode for months now.

The timetable is on Bus times: https://bustimes.org/services/ab1-ferrytoll-park-and-ride-edinburgh-park?date=2024-10-07

 

[Strathtay 260]

What is it with only Stagecoach buses at Dundee Bus Station? Does Stagecoach own it or something? I have always wondered why companies other than Stagecoach, and their partners Megabus/Citylink, can't use the Bus Station and have to find somewhere else for their services to call at.

 

[aaronspence]

What is it with only Stagecoach buses at Dundee Bus Station? Does Stagecoach own it or something? I have always wondered why companies other than Stagecoach and their partners Megabus/Citylink can't use the Bus Station and have to find somewhere else for their services to call at.

Citylink do use it, they have the last 2 stances.

 

[Strathtay 260]

Citylink do use it, they have the last 2 stances.

Yes, but Citylink are part of Stagecoach.
I said "I have always wondered why companies other than Stagecoach, and their partners Megabus/Citylink, can't use the Bus Station"

 

[kez19]

Yes, but Citylink are part of Stagecoach.
I said "I have always wondered why companies other than Stagecoach, and their partners Megabus/Citylink, can't use the Bus Station"

I remember Xplore Dundee had got in briefly but then they had took over the 57/57a routes at weekends (evening services) source: pics on Flickr

 

[aaronspence]

Yes, but Citylink are part of Stagecoach.
I said "I have always wondered why companies other than Stagecoach, and their partners Megabus/Citylink, can't use the Bus Station"

Ahh fair enough, I should learn to read

 

[Siemens Trains]

This seems to have gone unnoticed, Service AB1 will become an hourly service from 7th October on weekdays only.

Maybe along the same lines of the question about if a tree falls in a forest.....

It's a shame nobody uses the AB1 because the M8 bus lane must have cost a fortune and many people say the road should have been built with 3 lanes for general traffic. However I'm one of the many people who could use it for visits to Hermiston Gait but I would always take the car instead.

 

[ajrm]

What is it with only Stagecoach buses at Dundee Bus Station? Does Stagecoach own it or something? I have always wondered why companies other than Stagecoach, and their partners Megabus/Citylink, can't use the Bus Station and have to find somewhere else for their services to call at.

Yes, Stagecoach does own it, so other operators will pay departure charges. There's nothing to stop them doing so, but obviously it will add to their running costs if they do. (Presumably the tender for 57 and 57a specified the bus station as the terminal point as it always was when Stagecoach had the tender).

 

[overthewater]

Maybe along the same lines of the question about if a tree falls in a forest.....

It's a shame nobody uses the AB1 because the M8 bus lane must have cost a fortune and many people say the road should have been built with 3 lanes for general traffic. However I'm one of the many people who could use it for visits to Hermiston Gait but I would always take the car instead.

To be fair that bus lane is never open half the time, so AB1 can't even use it at times.

2 lands is enough for that road, the trouble is Hermiston Gait junction, The roundabout has 4 lanes then cut to 2 lanes then cuts back to 1 lane to get onto the Bypass, they could build a flyover bypassing that and Calder jct it would actually solve the problems

 

[VioletEclipse]

This seems to have gone unnoticed, Service AB1 will become an hourly service from 7th October on weekdays only. However the service been in driver only mode for months now.

The timetable is on Bus times: https://bustimes.org/services/ab1-ferrytoll-park-and-ride-edinburgh-park?date=2024-10-07

I don't understand why they don't extend it a bit, as there's a number of destinations not very far from both ends without direct service between them currently, which would likely increase the usage significantly.