Jordan Adam
Established Member
Inverness depot, well there's a surprise! NOT.
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Stagecoach North Scotland (Bluebird and Highland)
- Thread starter overthewater
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Inverness depot, well there's a surprise! NOT.
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GusB
Established Member
Ouch. Unfortunately, this does not surprise me. It was a couple of years ago now, but I was travelling home one day on one of the 07/08 plate E200s, and there was quite a noticeable jolt from the front wheel whenever a bump of any sort was encountered. As I alighted, I jokingly made a comment to the driver that he'd drawn the short straw that day and he sort of gave a shrug, but I did contact Stagecoach to voice my concerns, and heard nothing back from them at all. I don't use the bus as frequently these days, but my mum does and she regularly reports delays due to breakdowns.
GaryMcEwan
Established Member
When I was in Inverness back in December 2017 it was the same experience.
The E200s that were running on the 5/5A were in definite need of being pulled off the road and put for repair.
The E200s that were running on the 5/5A were in definite need of being pulled off the road and put for repair.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Stagecoach North Scotland unarguably have the worst maintenance record of any major operator in the country. Almost every year something like this happens, last year it was the "Orkney Mushroom Gate". Sadly DVSA seem equally useless, no doubt they'll get a £10,000 fine, told to improve and have their O-Disc's capped for a year. It's the exact same story over and over again. Inverness and the Highlands as a whole tend to get the bulk of the media attention, but sadly these lacking maintenance standards can be observed all over the North Scotland division.
The poor maintenance standards leads to vehicles constantly having engine issues, which is a major cause to the current vehicle shortage. You then have them putting buses (Typically Enviro400s) with slipping gearboxes and dying engines on long distance national speed limit work. Often it's a case of "if it moves put it out in service". It's not uncommon to see coaches with doors that don't shut proper, vehicles with missing panels and vehicles with broken panels.
That reminds me, the front bumper of 53337 was found in the Bridge Of Don area of Aberdeen a few weeks back. Turns out it had fallen of en-route over 2 years ago and has only now just been found!
Pains me to say all this as Stagecoach North Scotland have loads of great amazing employees, but when it comes to maintenance and management there's a real lack of interest and care, it's about time the Traffic Commissioner stepped up their game rather than just giving them a small fine and a fleet cap each time as it's clearly not working!
overthewater
Established Member
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The problems don't happen overnight, and must go back some years for the rot to have gotten this bad. Who was in control of North from 2016?
Jordan Adam
Established Member
The maintenance issues stem much further back. It was around 2010 not longer after the Rapsons take over that issues were becoming very apparent. It's only gotten worse since.
computerSaysNo
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Dec 2018
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- 1,440
The buses from Elgin depot seem to be lacking maintenance as well, I can't be sure about recently but when I traveled on them last year they were very noisy, every interior panel rattled every time there was a pothole, the opening windows usually wouldn't stay shut, no heating, in addition I often found the buses ran up to 15 minutes early sometimes which meant having to go to the bus stop very early, especially on routes where there is only one service per hour. Is this the case with services from the Inverness depot too?
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Skip to the bottom if this is tl;dr.
With Inverness it tends to mostly be late running. All the North Scotland depots are poor when it comes to maintenance but Elgin (Includes Macduff), Inverness and Orkney are by far the worst these days. Macduff which is a outstation of Elgin recently got 15 E400MMCs for the 35, when they are not breaking down they're normally running at least 20 minutes late. the Panthers before were no better with the 35 frequently being dubbed by locals as "Scotland's Most Unreliable Bus Route".
Similarly the 201/202 between Aberdeen and Braemar are equally as bad, to the point where locals know what journeys to avoid as they know it will be a bus that breaks down (often E400). The 15:15 203 from Aberdeen is a frequent non-runner and often breakdown leading to the 16:00 201 leaving passengers behind in the city centre. It doesn't help that the 201/202/203 used to be Every 15 to 20 Minutes during the day and now it drops down to a 45 minute frequency for the bulk of the afternoon.
Buchan are not too bad, however there's regular complaints about the poor condition of buses on the likes of the 66/66A and 69. The locals go riot whenever a Enviro400 is put on the Buchan Xpress in place of a Interdeck. It should be no surprise that one of them (19373) caught fire at the start of the year.
Stonehaven and Insch are not too bad however the main Coastrider and Inverurie corridor services have been cut to the point that it's turning people away. On certain sections of route there's been a 75% cut in frequency during the day, this is not helped by the fact that Minibuses are regulars on the Coastrider, when not to long ago this was a 15 minute frequency service dominated by ALX300s and Enviro400s.
The X17 which is meant to be one of the major routes in Aberdeen will literally see any bus serviceable. Whether that by Vanhool Astromega's, Optare Solos or Buchan Interdecks. Peak loads are another issue on this route with overcrowding common, not helped by the fact that Aberdeenshire seem to have an unending vehicle shortage and the X17 typically is the first route to have a bus pulled.
To make matters worse the new route 747 between Montrose and Peterhead via Aberdeen Airport which started in January 2019 is normally allocated totally unsuitable service buses which simply put cannot at all cope with the hills on the new Aberdeen ring road. Many of the buses that get allocated to the route are mid life stock that are already well past their sell by date and crawl along at a snails pace making them quite a dangerous hazard as impatient car drivers and HGV's try to rush ahead of them.
In short... The whole Stagecoach North Scotland division is plagued by shoddy maintenance and management.
GusB
Established Member
The bottom of the barrell was being well and truly scraped today. As I was driving through Nairn I passed a Streetlite... Nothing unusual there, as D&E occasionally used one on the town service, but this one was on the 10!
Gingerbus1991
Member
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2018
- Messages
- 992
You literally most of the time find that most stagecoach buses, have engine light and/or emission lights on.
The problem extends all the way down to fife!!
The problem extends all the way down to fife!!
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Some service changes affected Bluebird Buses Ltd which may be of interest to @GusB in particular...
From the 24th June.
From 8th July (post will be edited once/if more changes are registered).
From the 24th June.
- New Half Hourly service 44 linking Kingswells Park & Ride with the new Countesswells housing development.
From 8th July (post will be edited once/if more changes are registered).
- Timetable alterations to Service 36 (Elgin - Dufftown)
- NEW Service 39 (Elgin - Aviemore)
- Route change & Timetable alterations to the JET 727 (Will start serving TECA and operate 24 hours a day)
GusB
Established Member
It's interesting to see that they're introducing an Aviemore service, but wonder how long it will last. It was a route that was jointly operated by Northern and Highland back in SBG days and resurrected a couple of times over the years.
Any info about the route it will take? I'm assuming it'll go A941/A95 via Aberlour.
Any info about the route it will take? I'm assuming it'll go A941/A95 via Aberlour.
That 39 must be summer only.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
The services registrations have it split as Elgin - Tormore and Toremore to Aviemore. This time the route will solely be Bluebird operated. Indeed there's been various Elgin/Keith to Aviemore services over the year. I think there would maybe be more demand if it went down to Aberdeen, while you could just get the 10 and then connect on to the 39 many people don't think like that.
Possibly, although arguably there would still be demand for the service year round, the registration doesn't contain any "end dates".
Funny , i was looking at a map few weeks back thinking if there was any buses linking Aviemore to Elgin!
Jordan Adam
Established Member
At one point Deveron Coaches ran a 500 from Banff to Aviemore via Elgin. There has also been various routes over the years that don't go all the way from one side to the other, but connect with another bus to provide the link.
GusB
Established Member
I think in the past it was possibly a summer only service, although I've no information to back it up. It would be rather odd considering that Aviemore is a place that attracts people who partake in winter sports! I recall seeing publicity marketing it as the "Heather Hopper".
If it's marketed properly and targeted at skiers, snowboarders and general outdoorsy types it could work, I suppose. I dare say that those interested in the Whisky Trail might find it to be a useful means of transport between free drams...
If it is to be solely operated by Bluebird, I wonder if they will extend validity of the Bluebird
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Heather Hopper were the summer Deeside services.
In 2008 they were the following. (I've attached timetables in the spoiler below)
- 208: Newtonmore - Aviemore - Carrbridge - Grantown - Strathdon - Ballater.
- 501: Newtonmore - Aviemore - Inverness - Grantown - Strathdon - Ballater.
- 502: Aberdeen - Banchory - Ballater - Braemar - Glenshee - Pitlochry - Aberfieldy.
- 503: Aberdeen - Banchory - Ballater - Braemar - Glenshee - Blairgowrie - Perth.
Service 501/502/503 (Google Drive link) - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pbXhyjM8W7pPyvxRBHORXOsnOx3JBjCR
Service 208
Service 208
I'll do a quick dig and see if i have the old 500 timetable on my computer in PDF form, and for other Moray - Aviemore services. The Bluebird Explorer probably will be extended, as should be expected given the passengers will probably get dumped with a badly painted Ex-Rapson's Enviro200!
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Here's the 500 (aka "Strathspey Stroller") i mentioned, it only operated from Cullen rather than Banff during the summer periods of 2005, 2006 and 2007.
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GusB
Established Member
That's interesting - I wasn't aware of those services at all. The A939 might seem the most logical route to run a bus from deepest Deeside to Speyside, but it's always the first road to be closed at the first sign of snow. Actually, having driven the road over the Lecht in a car, it must be quite hair-raising on a bus/coach!Heather Hopper were the summer Deeside services.
In 2008 they were the following. (I've attached timetables in the spoiler below)
- 208: Newtonmore - Aviemore - Carrbridge - Grantown - Strathdon - Ballater.
- 501: Newtonmore - Aviemore - Inverness - Grantown - Strathdon - Ballater.
- 502: Aberdeen - Banchory - Ballater - Braemar - Glenshee - Pitlochry - Aberfieldy.
- 503: Aberdeen - Banchory - Ballater - Braemar - Glenshee - Blairgowrie - Perth.
Service 501/502/503 (Google Drive link) - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pbXhyjM8W7pPyvxRBHORXOsnOx3JBjCR
Service 208
I'll do a quick dig and see if i have the old 500 timetable on my computer in PDF form, and for other Moray - Aviemore services. The Bluebird Explorer probably will be extended, as should be expected given the passengers will probably get dumped with a badly painted Ex-Rapson's Enviro200!
The Heather Hopper services I remember were from the 80s, which I'm guessing is probably outwith your living memory
I do also recall a service from early Stagecoach days that did Elgin - Deeside - Aberdeen, but I can't remember exactly which route it took. I suspect it was Elgin - Huntly - Rhynie etc... I think it was an extension of the 201?, and only ran a couple of times a week, but I can't be 100% sure. It was a journey I'd always planned to do, but never got round to.
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Jordan Adam
Established Member
That's interesting - I wasn't aware of those services at all. The A939 would seem the most logical route to run a bus from deepest Deeside to Speyside, but it's always the first road to be closed at the first sign of snow. Actually, having driven the road over the Lecht in a car, it must be quite hair-raising on a bus/coach!
The Heather Hopper services I remember were from the 80s, which I'm guessing is probably outwith your living memory
It's probably a good thing it only operated in the Summer! A common vehicle on the service was Rapson's Dennis Javelin/Plaxton Prima YX05FEK, no doubt it fitted right in with the infestation of Volvo B7R/Plaxton Profiles Stagecoach were enduring at the time
The 80s are indeed outwith my living memory
. I've not heard of a Aberdeen - Deeside - Elgin service however i will have a look in to it and see what i can fine, perhaps the route you're thinking of is (or at least a variation of) the 402 which operated by Deveron Coaches from Aberdeen to Elgin via Alford on a Wednesday (see below).
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Further changes have went through for the entire Aviemore network (31 - 40) from the 8th of July, including the current school service 39 being withdrawn. It appears the new 39 (Elgin - Aviemore) will be joint operated by both Bluebird and Highland.
Anyone know what the changes are to the 36 (Elgin-Dufftown)? Is it likely that it's merely the introduction of the Summer Sunday service, or more changes!
If there's the 39 being introduced, will the Aberlour- Elgin section support 2 services?
Apart from the journeys that run after the gaps where the vehicles go off and work school buses, the 36 seems fairly lightly loaded!
If there's the 39 being introduced, will the Aberlour- Elgin section support 2 services?
Apart from the journeys that run after the gaps where the vehicles go off and work school buses, the 36 seems fairly lightly loaded!
Jordan Adam
Established Member
It would appear the changes to the 36 are indeed just the additional Summer Sunday service.
With the 39 the Bluebird registration states "Two return journeys per day" (two journeys each way), the Highland registration just states "Infrequent". So it's hard to get an idea of how frequent the service will be, and what it's impact on the 36 is, it's entirely possibly the 36 may be reduced to facility the 39. (36 and 39 combined offer the hourly frequency to Dufftown).
Thanks, it's long been my suspicion that stagecoach are attempting to de- commercialise the 36!
Putting unsuitable DP's (cascaded from the 10 to the 35, then from the 35 to spare) on workings that mean less able people can't use them easily. Yes, they can carry a wheelchair but, buggys, walkers and such like can't climb the steps and negotiate the aisle. People are expecting a flat floor easy access vehicle, not a high floor dual purpose one, elderly and disabled not able to climb steps then don't travel. This will help make the service less viable, or not viable at all!
The service then gets chopped in the hope that the council will step in and put it out to tender, if stagecoach win it - great! If not - I shouldn't think they'll lose any sleep!
Putting unsuitable DP's (cascaded from the 10 to the 35, then from the 35 to spare) on workings that mean less able people can't use them easily. Yes, they can carry a wheelchair but, buggys, walkers and such like can't climb the steps and negotiate the aisle. People are expecting a flat floor easy access vehicle, not a high floor dual purpose one, elderly and disabled not able to climb steps then don't travel. This will help make the service less viable, or not viable at all!
The service then gets chopped in the hope that the council will step in and put it out to tender, if stagecoach win it - great! If not - I shouldn't think they'll lose any sleep!
GusB
Established Member
From my own, selfish point of view, I'd prefer a high-floor Volvo over an Enviro, but I would agree it can be off-putting for those with heavy loads or mobility issues. I saw a Panther in Elgin last week - on the 33 (toon service!)
For these more rural routes, I'd say that a shorter version of the Panther LE would be ideal; easy access for people who need it, and a higher seating area for better views.
For these more rural routes, I'd say that a shorter version of the Panther LE would be ideal; easy access for people who need it, and a higher seating area for better views.
I must admit, when I was driving, I loved driving coaches on bus routes, leopards, tigers that sort of thing.
However, the boot now being on the other foot as it were, I can't do steps and narrow aisles any more so they're a right pain!
I must admit to being a lover of the older vehicles a nice RELL, or LHS does exactly the same job as an enviro, and after a few years in service the enviro is probably a rougher ride too. I'm sure with a bit of modernisation the RE or LH could have been developed into s low floor vehicle!
However, the boot now being on the other foot as it were, I can't do steps and narrow aisles any more so they're a right pain!
I must admit to being a lover of the older vehicles a nice RELL, or LHS does exactly the same job as an enviro, and after a few years in service the enviro is probably a rougher ride too. I'm sure with a bit of modernisation the RE or LH could have been developed into s low floor vehicle!
Jordan Adam
Established Member
The current Panther LE at 14.5 Metres seat about the same as a Profile, If you were to have a 12 Meter Panther LE the capacity would be appalling. The 36 (along with the 38) are booked as Enviro300 duties. Albeit Elgin doesn't have 4 Enviro300's, so it's pretty common to have the surplus E200MMC on the 38.
To be fair the simple reason why the Enviro may be a rougher ride once some time has passed is because it's a light weight bus. I wish Stagecoach had ordered B7RLE's rather than Enviro300's as the B7RLE is a far superior product and can handle rural work quite well unlike Enviro's. The current Enviro200MMC is based on the same chassis that the original Dart SLF was.
I quite frequently see Panther's on the 38, which is laughable given that it was meant to be the low floor alternative to the 35. But now the 35 has went low floor with totally unsuitable deckers!